What about the Dinosuars?

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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #150 on: June 02, 2009, 10:45:24 AM »
2! is still two.

1x2=2
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James

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #151 on: June 02, 2009, 11:30:13 AM »
Hundreds of dinosaur species are known from a single specimen only, or even partial specimens. By the standards of dinosaur archaeology, two complete specimens is plentiful.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2009, 12:02:48 PM »
Putting aside the dismissal of all KillaBee's arguments, something not worth boasting about, this thread is still a massive victory for FET.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2009, 12:23:05 PM »
*forum high five*
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svenanders

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #154 on: June 02, 2009, 01:14:42 PM »
Putting aside the dismissal of all KillaBee's arguments, something not worth boasting about, this thread is still a massive victory for FET.

No it's not. Dogplatter has not presented any evidence for his claims.

Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2009, 01:23:27 PM »


"We will not agree to anything until its generally denied."

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #156 on: June 02, 2009, 01:25:57 PM »
Putting aside the dismissal of all KillaBee's arguments, something not worth boasting about, this thread is still a massive victory for FET.

No it's not. Dogplatter has not presented any evidence for his claims.

Yes he has. Everything he has said is based on fossil records that are well established. His claims are based on existing evidence, so he doesn't need to provide anything new. You Re'ers have yet to provide any evidence that contradicts his interpretation. Ball's in your court!
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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svenanders

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #157 on: June 02, 2009, 01:37:34 PM »
Putting aside the dismissal of all KillaBee's arguments, something not worth boasting about, this thread is still a massive victory for FET.

No it's not. Dogplatter has not presented any evidence for his claims.

Yes he has. Everything he has said is based on fossil records that are well established. His claims are based on existing evidence, so he doesn't need to provide anything new. You Re'ers have yet to provide any evidence that contradicts his interpretation. Ball's in your court!

Where did he provide evidence that dinosaurs built boats?

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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #158 on: June 02, 2009, 04:15:04 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?
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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #159 on: June 02, 2009, 07:43:33 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?

If dinosaur remains can be found after all those millions of years, why couldn't their boat remains exist?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #160 on: June 02, 2009, 07:47:06 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?

If dinosaur remains can be found after all those millions of years, why couldn't their boat remains exist?

I think the appropriate question is, why would we expect their boat remains to exist?  We have mere fragments of relics from ancient human societies that are only thousands of years old.  How could you possibly expect such relics to last for millions?
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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #161 on: June 02, 2009, 07:54:27 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?

If dinosaur remains can be found after all those millions of years, why couldn't their boat remains exist?

I think the appropriate question is, why would we expect their boat remains to exist?  We have mere fragments of relics from ancient human societies that are only thousands of years old.  How could you possibly expect such relics to last for millions?

For the same reason that dinosaur remains exist.  Fossilization.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #162 on: June 02, 2009, 08:04:28 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?

If dinosaur remains can be found after all those millions of years, why couldn't their boat remains exist?

I think the appropriate question is, why would we expect their boat remains to exist?  We have mere fragments of relics from ancient human societies that are only thousands of years old.  How could you possibly expect such relics to last for millions?

For the same reason that dinosaur remains exist.  Fossilization.

What exactly would you expect to find?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #163 on: June 02, 2009, 08:44:21 PM »
There would be no remains of the boats after so many millions of years. The dinosaurs would have the comprehension and intelligence to built the boats, and the fossil studies provide evidence that they must have moved from one continent to another. Given that Pangea never occurred, how else would they have traveled from america to Asia etc?

If dinosaur remains can be found after all those millions of years, why couldn't their boat remains exist?

I think the appropriate question is, why would we expect their boat remains to exist?  We have mere fragments of relics from ancient human societies that are only thousands of years old.  How could you possibly expect such relics to last for millions?

For the same reason that dinosaur remains exist.  Fossilization.

What exactly would you expect to find?

I don't know.  Maybe evidence that dinosaurs really did build boats?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #164 on: June 02, 2009, 08:49:17 PM »
I don't know.  Maybe evidence that dinosaurs really did build boats?

How would a wooden boat sunken in seawater fossilize into rock?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 08:52:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #165 on: June 02, 2009, 08:52:37 PM »
I don't know.  Maybe evidence that dinosaurs really did build boats?

How would a wooden boat sunken in seawater fossilize?

The same way that dinosaurs fossilize.  Minerals in the sediment replacing the organic materials.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #166 on: June 02, 2009, 08:54:40 PM »
The same way that dinosaurs fossilize.  Minerals in the sediment replacing the organic materials.

How would that happen to a wooden boat sunken at the bottom of the sea?

It would corrode into oblivion by the sea water long before it got covered by dirt and sediment.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 08:57:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #167 on: June 02, 2009, 09:09:09 PM »
The same way that dinosaurs fossilize.  Minerals in the sediment replacing the organic materials.

How would that happen to a wooden boat sunken at the bottom of the sea?

It would corrode into oblivion by the sea water long before it got covered by dirt and sediment.

OK Tom, pick your favorite response:

1: So you're saying that there is no physical evidence to support Dogplatter's theory?  Who's side are you on?

2:  Organic materials don't corrode, they decay.  Are you suggesting that dinosaurs mastered metallurgy as well as boat building?

3:  Not if there was a storm that stirred up the sediment as the boat sank.  Fossils of any significant size are pretty rare anyways so I really wouldn't expect many dino boats to survive the process.  However, if dinos did build enough boats to facilitate large scale migration, then it would not be unreasonable to expect to find an example eventually.
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James

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #168 on: June 03, 2009, 01:09:10 AM »
How many dinosaur fossils have been found in total, compared with the number of dinosaurs that actually existed?

Just for illustrative purposes, if we estimate that 10000 specimens have been found in total (it's probably far fewer), compared with the number of total dinosaurs which ever existed (if for the sake of argument we estimate that maybe on average a million individual dinosaurs were born each year - it's probably many times more than that, but you can alter the numbers however you want if you feel there were fewer or more dinosaurs - the result will still illustrate my point), over the 160 million years in which dinosaurs covered the Earth.

These numbers would result in 160000000000000 dinosaurs ever existing (this seems pretty conservative as an estimate really) which would mean that 1/16000000000 dinosaurs which existed have been found. 0.00000000625% of the dinosaurs which existed have actually fossilised and been discovered if these numbers are anywhere near accurate.

By the same token, if fewer than 16000000000 boats were built by the dinosaurs, we would be lucky to find a single specimen, even if bone and wood had equivalent candidacy for fossilisation (they don't quite, though both can become fossilised). Of course, the dinosaurs would have built far fewer than 16000000000 boats.

If anybody has any disagreement with these figures and processes, provide me with new variables. If you believe that either of the following:

    Total number of dinosaur specimens discovered by humanity
    Total number of dinosaurs, on average, born every year during the 160 million years in which they existed

ought to be different, please provide your own variables. I assure you that any reasonable estimates will yield the result that a miniscule percentage of the total dinosaurs which have existed have actually been found, and that the same would be true of the boats they built.
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James

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #169 on: June 03, 2009, 04:59:22 AM »

Hmm this looks like it's going to be a whole heap of baseless speculation.... yep...

I have explicitly invited you to provide your own figures if you think mine are inaccurate! LOOK!

If anybody has any disagreement with these figures and processes, provide me with new variables. If you believe that either of the following:

    Total number of dinosaur specimens discovered by humanity
    Total number of dinosaurs, on average, born every year during the 160 million years in which they existed

ought to be different, please provide your own variables. I assure you that any reasonable estimates will yield the result that a miniscule percentage of the total dinosaurs which have existed have actually been found, and that the same would be true of the boats they built.

So go on! Give me YOUR figures, and we'll perform the same operations. I'm happy to hear your estimates for how many dinosaur fossils have been found and how many dinosaurs existed in total. I want to hear these. Post them. Then we can both be in no doubt as to the result!
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #170 on: June 03, 2009, 05:24:35 AM »
The boy is obviously too incompetent to carry out his own mathematics. He doesn't seem to what 2 factorial is.

Unless;

2! is still two.

1x2=2

lrn2c++


Has some ridiculous hidden meaning inside a spelling mistake?  Because I'm pretty sure we were talking about maths... not computer programming? If you were talking about computer programming then it seems pretty out of context from the debate in hand? Unless you were suggesting that the dinosaurs had the capacity to design semiconducting materials, build computers and then write programs in c++?

Even I think that's absurd.

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James

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #171 on: June 03, 2009, 06:12:12 AM »
You say my figures about how many dinosaurs existed, and how many were found, are wrong - they might be! That is why I want you to provide your own estimates! Please, provide them, I am 100% serious, there is no trick going on here. I earnestly want you to estimate the number of dinosaurs which existed, versus the number found, so that we can calculate the probability of finding an individual fossil of a boat. Give me your estimates!
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #172 on: June 03, 2009, 06:13:58 AM »
All calculations and statistics are based upon assumptions. Especially in the form of crude science such as archaeology.
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Rogherio

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #173 on: June 03, 2009, 10:48:30 AM »
All calculations and statistics are based upon assumptions. Especially in the form of crude science such as archaeology.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #174 on: June 03, 2009, 10:51:25 AM »
You have no evidence that dinosaurs built boats. All the made up statistics in the world can't save you from that fact.

Wrong.  The distribution of species across continents is clear evidence that dinosaurs built boats.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #175 on: June 03, 2009, 11:16:48 AM »
You have no evidence that dinosaurs built boats. All the made up statistics in the world can't save you from that fact.

Wrong.  The distribution of species across continents is clear evidence that dinosaurs built boats.

No. It's clear evidence of species distribution across continents.

Which raises the question of why that should be the case.  Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is a perfectly valid hypothesis for that question.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #176 on: June 03, 2009, 12:12:27 PM »
Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is a perfectly valid hypothesis for that question.

No it's not.

Plate movement and species evolution is a perfectly valid hypothesis. There's evidence for both.

Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is an invalid hypothesis. There's no evidence for such.

What evidence is there that all the continents were once joined together, then ripped apart, besides the distribution of species across continents?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #177 on: June 03, 2009, 12:14:20 PM »
Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is a perfectly valid hypothesis for that question.

No it's not.

Plate movement and species evolution is a perfectly valid hypothesis. There's evidence for both.

Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is an invalid hypothesis. There's no evidence for such.

What evidence is there that all the continents were once joined together, then ripped apart, besides the distribution of species across continents?

similar "scarring" (lack of a better word) from glaciers.  Also, the fact that south america and africa fit so well.  But you are right, its not necessarily a fact that all of them were connected simultaneously at one point.  It is just a theory.


Im not 100% sure, but im pretty sure that there is evidence of continental drift occuring right now.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 12:16:14 PM by brathearon »

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markjo

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #178 on: June 03, 2009, 12:37:17 PM »
Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is a perfectly valid hypothesis for that question.

No it's not.

Plate movement and species evolution is a perfectly valid hypothesis. There's evidence for both.

Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is an invalid hypothesis. There's no evidence for such.

What evidence is there that all the continents were once joined together, then ripped apart, besides the distribution of species across continents?

Umm...  Plate tectonics and continental drift?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about the Dinosuars?
« Reply #179 on: June 03, 2009, 12:57:24 PM »
Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is a perfectly valid hypothesis for that question.

No it's not.

Plate movement and species evolution is a perfectly valid hypothesis. There's evidence for both.

Dinosaurs breeding these species and carrying them across seas is an invalid hypothesis. There's no evidence for such.

What evidence is there that all the continents were once joined together, then ripped apart, besides the distribution of species across continents?

Umm...  Plate tectonics and continental drift?

I don't see how plate tectonics and continental drift so readily lead to the conclusion that the continents were once joined together and then ripped apart.  That's really reaching.

What evidence is there that all the continents were once joined together, then ripped apart, besides the distribution of species across continents?

http://tinyurl.com/os7ktx

It's not hard.

If you can't explain it yourself what puts you in such a position to speak of it as fact?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?