Sea Serpents & Dragons

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Sea Serpents & Dragons
« on: June 23, 2006, 03:20:42 AM »
This post is a response to a challenge from Cinlef in a post initiated by the Grim Squeaker.  Having been accused of making long posts in the past, we will not begin this post with such a blitzkrieg of information.

  Therefore, I will commence with the following opening statement:

   Dragons (also known as dinosaurs, but I use the older name) are a fact of the modern world.  Flying dragons (huge pterodactyls which are alive and well) exist today as they have always existed since the creation of the world.  This also holds true for sea monsters many of which are sea serpents (dragons) with an ability to fly and rove the lands and deserts of this world.  And if you don't believe it, then you're a dummy.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2006, 04:22:47 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
And if you don't believe it, then you're a dummy.


Of course. Well, that's reason enough for me to become a believer!  :lol:
quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2006, 08:58:06 AM »
Quote from: "Xargo"

Of course. Well, that's reason enough for me to become a believer!  :lol:


Maybe this will help you:

Job 40:15 and on describes large animal that appears to be a tyrannosaurus
Job 41:19 describes a fire breathing dragon
Daniel 14:23 (catholic bible) describes Daniel killing a dragon

Alexander the Great reported his troops being scared by a dragon in India 326 BC

St. George was famous for slaying dragons

Legend of Gargoyle from France

Vikings had dragon heads on their ships, and dragon stories in their culture.

Marco Polo lived in China for 14 years since 1271, reported emperor was raising dragon to his chariots

In 1611 emperor of China appointed a post of "royal dragon feeder"

Countless pictures of dragon on wall of grand canyon by native Americans

Legend of Thunderbird

1980 expedition to Congo and the legend of Mahamba.


This is just a fraction of facts I could compile in 10 minutes, there are many many more sightings of dinosaurs all over the planet, but mostly in swamps of Africa and in Asia.

Cryptozoology is the study of hidden animals check it out on your own if you are interested.

But, of course, this is not possible because your teacher told you that dinosaurs went extinct 65 milion years ago.

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 12:26:03 PM »
The humour of my opening statement was apparently not delivered to Xargo's mail box, if you get my drift.  (He deleted his initial post referring to me as Hitler who as an evolutionist would likely have taken Xargo's side in this debate as their enemies the creationists are perhaps the most enthusiastic believers in living dragons other than people with either comprehensive or first hand knowledge like cryptozoologists and pygmies).

  Thanks however to the informative post from googleSearch as I was unaware of the specific Chinese information being only generally aware of a widespread tradition of dragons figuring prominently in their civilization.  I will look for this when I obtain Sir Henry Yule's definitive english edition of Marco Polo's travels.

  I am unfamiliar with the name googleSearch used to refer to the dragons of the Congo.  I am long familiar with the pigmy name for the dragons of the Congo whom they call Mokele-mbembe.  It would be good to visit the Congo for this very reason.  The expeditions of the late 1970's and early 1980's were led by British cryptozoologist Roy Mackal who also authored the most definitve book on Loch Ness that I am aware of.  He is also the founder of the Institute of Cryptozoology.

  The dragon slain by Saint George was killed near Beirut, Lebanon outside the ancient city gate.  The Antiochian Orthodox Cathedral of Saint George the Dragonslayer in downtown modern Beirut is built on the spot of the slaying.  This palestinian general of the roman army is most reknown to Orthodox Christians for standing up to Diocletian after he had implemented the most brutal persecution in the history of the Church.

  The thunderbirds are not a legend.  These living pterodactyls are quite real.  They exist in north america today.

  And googleSearch is right.  What we mention is merely the tip of the iceberg.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 12:41:21 PM »
Oh everyone knows that at one point there were dragons.  unfortunately they seem to have died out.  That's why my friend and I have been working out the biology of dragons. So that when we possess the capability to create ne organisms using genetics, we will be ready.

getting the fire-breathing figured out is damn hard.

?

joffenz

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Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 01:10:23 PM »
Quote from: "googleSearch"
Job 40:15 and on describes large animal that appears to be a tyrannosaurus
Job 41:19 describes a fire breathing dragon
Daniel 14:23 (catholic bible) describes Daniel killing a dragon


"Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high. A line of thirty cubits would encircle it completely." Kings 7:23

The bible says a lot of things. Is there any proof that dragons exist? Any photographs of them if they're still around today?

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 06:05:23 PM »
err ever looked at the photos of Nessy?


photos of the Loch Ness monster exist just as much as photos of the Earth being round.


but yeh it is strange how dragons are so strong in almost every single culture in the world (flat earth isn't), and it wouldn't surprise me if Dinosaurs existed to this day in either the deepest lakes (like Loch Ness) or the deepest forests (like the congo).


however i generally attribute the presence of dragons in all cultures as the occasional unearthing of fossils.


also we use to think that Giant squid were extinct, but we no know that they are not. We probably know more about the moon than we do the bottom of our oceans.

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 09:07:26 PM »
To answer Erasmus' quote (in the original thread, before it got deleted), it's quite possible for fire-breathing dragons to exist. However, if you classify dragons into three branches, Earth dragons, Water dragons, and Sky/Air dragons, only two of the three would have any need to breathe fire.


First, they aren't expelling the fire from their lungs. If you think this, you are an idiot. They have a bladder where they keep methane gas, which they can excrete at will. Doing so, after having chewed rocks rich in phosophor, they are able to create a chemical reaction that results in a jet of flame.



Yeah, I pulled some of this from a special on dragons they ran on the Discovery channel.
Who really needs one of these things?

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Erasmus

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Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2006, 02:17:40 AM »
Quote from: "Paradoxical"
(in the original thread, before it got deleted),


Sorry about that folks; it was my screwup.

Quote
it's quite possible for fire-breathing dragons to exist. However, if you classify dragons into three branches, Earth dragons, Water dragons, and Sky/Air dragons, only two of the three would have any need to breathe fire.


If you're referring to all but Water dragons, I would have to humbly disagree.  If dragons breathing fire is the explanation for magma, then it must be pointed out that magma is released on the ocean floor as well as on land.  I refer of course to plate boundaries and other hot spots, such as the one that is currently forming a new Hawai'ian island.

Quote
They have a bladder where they keep methane gas, which they can excrete at will. Doing so, after having chewed rocks rich in phosophor, they are able to create a chemical reaction that results in a jet of flame.


How do they ignite the gas?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2006, 05:02:39 AM »
Quote from: "googleSearch"
Quote from: "Xargo"

Of course. Well, that's reason enough for me to become a believer!  :lol:


Maybe this will help you:

Job 40:15 and on describes large animal that appears to be a tyrannosaurus
Job 41:19 describes a fire breathing dragon
Daniel 14:23 (catholic bible) describes Daniel killing a dragon

Alexander the Great reported his troops being scared by a dragon in India 326 BC

St. George was famous for slaying dragons

Legend of Gargoyle from France

Vikings had dragon heads on their ships, and dragon stories in their culture.

Marco Polo lived in China for 14 years since 1271, reported emperor was raising dragon to his chariots

In 1611 emperor of China appointed a post of "royal dragon feeder"

Countless pictures of dragon on wall of grand canyon by native Americans

Legend of Thunderbird

1980 expedition to Congo and the legend of Mahamba.


This is just a fraction of facts I could compile in 10 minutes, there are many many more sightings of dinosaurs all over the planet, but mostly in swamps of Africa and in Asia.

Cryptozoology is the study of hidden animals check it out on your own if you are interested.

But, of course, this is not possible because your teacher told you that dinosaurs went extinct 65 milion years ago.


I never said I didn't believe in dragons, dog.

Anyways, those hints  you gave me are more or less fairytales, legends or rumors. No proofs or historical evidence. Yet, I believe that those early folks of history might have called different lizards or reptiles Dragons. If I'm not wrong, I believe there are lizards even today that goes by that name. But dragons as you see them in Fantasy books are a little exaggarated, I think.

But, since the possibility of dragons does not conflict with modern science (unlike FE theory), I accept the possibility.

Edit:
Quote from: "Dionysios"
(He deleted his initial post referring to me as Hitler)
- Dionysios

Well, Hitler too was hostile against anyone who did not share his belief. Just a symbolic attempt to create some perspective in your conservative and corrupted mind.
quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2006, 05:31:02 AM »
Since it was posted here, I will reply that flat earthism is the original cosmology of every people and every ancient civilization in th world.

  By the way, holding "modern science" as the test of truth is a catastrophic mistake.  Xargo makes a religion out of modern science.  He reasons that dragons may be possible as they do not contradict modern science.  So modern science is his religion, which I have no problem with as that is his choice.  That is between he and God, and I am not his judge of religion.  Unfortunately, I fear he would deny that modern science is his religion while at the same time declaring that flat earthism is mine.  I would be delighted to hear otherwise, as anything would be a step in the right direction from such a position.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2006, 05:48:26 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Since it was posted here, I will reply that flat earthism is the original cosmology of every people and every ancient civilization in th world.


Agreed. And obviously you guys were left behind in the flow of evolution.

Quote from: "Dionysios"


  Xargo is the one acting hostile.


I'm right here, so don't talk to me as if in third person. :) Or are you just trying to talk me down, for some reason?

Quote from: "Dionysios"
 If he insists on accusing others of being hostile, then he should look in a mirror.  He does not know anything about Adolf Hitler or world war two or history whatsoerver, besides the fact that world war two history is simnply not the topic of this thread.  


Well, my intention still was not to change the subject of the topic, my dear friend. :) Besides, I deleted the post. So why don't you just drop it instead of wasting your time like this? Go read the bible in it's original language or something, instead.

Quote from: "Dionysios"
he just likes throwing around insults because he disagrees with what I have written in other threads.  Anyone can call someone else Hitler.  For example,

XARGO IS LIKE HITLER.

XARGO IS HOSTILE AGAINST ANYONE WHO DOES NOT SHARE HIS BELIEF.

XARGO HAS A CORRUPTED MIND.

XARGO IS SMALL MINDED AND NEEDS PERSPECTIVE.

XARGO CANNOT TAKE WHAT HE DISHES OUT TO OTHERS.

XARGO IS A HYPOCRITE.

 It is very easy, but if he is hypocritical enough to be offended by the above statements after dishing out similar, then this HYPOCRITE (who insists in enforcing his view of world war two history upon me even in forums which have nothing to do with that) should humble himself by remembering that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

- Dionysios


One weak ass post, this of yours. Havent got anything better to do than outrageosly defending yourself against a hypocrit like me? :D You should work with your issues, friend. And you're still acting hostile.
quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2006, 05:55:21 AM »
I will let my reply to Xargo's continuous accusations stand in his own post as he quoted all the salient points.

googleSearch,

  So you do not believe that dragons became extinct with the flood?  As this definitely seems to be the case, I would concur.

  I would inquire to any creationist that believes that dragons died with the flood as to why the bible itself describes dragons as existing after the flood in addition to the lack of biblical evidence for such a theory.  This is not to mention the overwhelming evidence of dragons worldwide throghout history until today.

  As I have said elsewhere, I have noticed many persons and in particular some creationists have used the flood of Noe as a cubby hole to stuff all those things (like the terrestrial paradise of Garden of Eden, the "dinosaurs," unicorns, et cetera) which they read about in the bible but find too difficult to believe in as really existing today.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2006, 06:21:12 AM »
Pathetic.
quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2006, 06:47:42 AM »
What is pathetic?  You indicated you might believe in dragons.  Have you never experienced or given thought to this use of the flood as an excuse for unbelief?  In my experience it is a recurring phenomenon.  It is in some ways a cousin to theistic evolution.  

  Is this view of dragons existing at one time and then dying out not expressed above by 'thelost1' ?   What I am saying is the flood of Noe is the tool some of the shallower creationists use for explaining away the existence of dragons.  Evoutionists have among their ranks the same phenomenon (of believing dinosaurs once existed, but died out) but they would use some explanation or catastrophe other than the worldwide flood.  

  This brings up a good point to creationists who believe in dragons with respect to their capabilities and classifying them as sea, land, and air.  Dragons that are somehow restricted to the ground who did not board the ark would have indeed died out with the flood.  Amphibious or marine dragons would have survived the flood.  This point reminds me of an incident which occurred in the late 1890's in the Pacific northwest.  A dragon's head arose from the middle of a lake which had two fishermen in a boat, and he bit one of them in the ankle, not letting go.  The dragon then arose completely out of the water and flew several hundred feet into the air taking the fishernman with him as he had never let go of him with his teeth.  The dragon then plunged into the lake underwater not to be seen again.  The fisherman was gone with him as his food.

  This is an indication that one should be cautious about classifying dragons as sea, land, or airborne dragons as some apparently have the ability to swim as well as fly.  The story above is recounted in the book 'Monster! Monster!' by Bettey Sanders Gardner.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2006, 07:19:50 AM »
As the Loch Ness monster has already and will be brought up again, I wanted to point out that 'Champ' of Lake Champlain (who was sighted by the French explorer Samuel Champlain himself in the early 1600's) is North America's answer to the Loch Ness monster.  However, he is hardly the only one.  Many have been and continue to be documented across the continent.

  As far as thuderbirds, it seems that the most likely place in north america as a home of the thunderbirds, or living pterodactyls, is the Sierra Madre mountains of Mexico, which are the most unexplored region of north america, with the possible exception of some areas of Nunavut, as there have been an abundance of sightings of living pterodactyls in south Texas and north mexico since the 1970's and throughout the 1980's and 1990's.  This is not to mention the Lawnsdale, Illinois incident of the mid-1970's.  The lawnsdale incident involving two thunderbirds larger than the size of modern jets picking up human beings and carrying them great distances with multiple eyewitnesses followed by many sightings of these birds over several months was not only one of the major crytozoological incidents in america in the 1970's, but was also the subject of a serious televised documentary in 1998.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2006, 07:38:40 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
If you're referring to all but Water dragons, I would have to humbly disagree. If dragons breathing fire is the explanation for magma, then it must be pointed out that magma is released on the ocean floor as well as on land. I refer of course to plate boundaries and other hot spots, such as the one that is currently forming a new Hawai'ian island.


I honestly don't believe that water dragons are the explaination for ocean floor tectonic activity.

Explain to me this: In the Flat-Earth model, is there no magma? If there is, then what are you getting at?

Quote from: "Erasmus"
How do they ignite the gas?


I can't say for certain. Perhaps it isn't a phosphor/methane mix that creates the flame, but instead it is another mix of chemicals, that ignite on contact. Or perhaps it is a single chemical, and not a mixture, that ignites on contact with oxygen (such as white phosphorous). But, of course, this is all speculation.



And, to add to googleSearch's original post, about the widespread reports of dragons, don't forget that both the Mayan and ancient Chinese civilizations had paintings of dragons. In other countries in Asia minor, as well as the Middle East, archaeologists have also found drawings and paintings of what could be dragons. The differences between these "dragons" in each society are pretty big, and yet they are basically all dragons, more or less.
Who really needs one of these things?

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2006, 08:11:01 AM »
Strangely enough, this is apparently not an uphill debate.  It is unusual to be in the majority .

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2006, 08:19:29 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Strangely enough, this is apparently not an uphill debate.  It is unusual to be in the majority .

- Dionysios


The question we must all ask ourselves now is: Are we arguing for dragons because we think they exist, or because we want them to?
Who really needs one of these things?

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Erasmus

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Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2006, 09:29:32 AM »
Quote from: "Paradoxical"
Explain to me this: In the Flat-Earth model, is there no magma? If there is, then what are you getting at?


We're in the Alt. Sci. forum now... no flat-Earth assumptions here.

Quote
I honestly don't believe that water dragons are the explaination for ocean floor tectonic activity.


But do you believe that they are responsible for volcanoes?

Quote
The lawnsdale incident involving two thunderbirds larger than the size of modern jets picking up human beings and carrying them great distances with multiple eyewitnesses followed by many sightings of these birds...


It doesn't sound like these animals will suffer any natural predators.  Why aren't they more common?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2006, 10:20:55 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
But do you believe that they are responsible for volcanoes?


No. I don't think that any creature could possibly have the power to create such destruction. I believe volcanoes are just as volcanologists and scientists believe they are.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
It doesn't sound like these animals will suffer any natural predators. Why aren't they more common?


Easy. We don't directly hunt condors, do we? And yet they're nearly extinct. Any species that is endangered, that we don't actively hunt, still has a dwindling population due to the activity of humans.


Most likely, before Europeans came over and colonized America, with just the Native Americans living there, these thunderbirds had an abundance of places to nest, and an abundance of food.


Who knows? Maybe they were reliant on foodstuffs such as buffalo and the like, that Americans killed off.
Who really needs one of these things?

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Erasmus

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Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2006, 10:38:52 AM »
Quote from: "Paradoxical"
No. I don't think that any creature could possibly have the power to create such destruction. I believe volcanoes are just as volcanologists and scientists believe they are.


Okay.

Quote
Most likely, before Europeans came over and colonized America, with just the Native Americans living there, these thunderbirds had an abundance of places to nest, and an abundance of food.


There's still lots of unused space, especially in places where dragons traditionally roost -- mountains such as the Rockies, the Sierra Nevadas, etc. -- so I don't think it's a space issue.

Also, humans keep enormous stores of cattle collected in relatively small areas -- a veritable smorgasbord for dragons -- so I don't think it's a food issue.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2006, 11:29:56 AM »
Before answering Erasmus's question, I want to point out that I have already stated in a previous post that I believe that dragons are the principle cause of active volcanoes. I have read reports of small dragons seen in the vicinity of Mount Kenya, but there is probably a size difference (unless these are just babies) as it would obviously take a dragon of greater size than those reported in the Mount Kenya sightings to produce a volcanic explosion.  (The sightings of small dragons seen flying around Mount Kenya are separate from the sightings of Mokele-mbembe in the Congo.)

  As to why dragons are not seemingly more common, I want to refer to a particular post I made earlier dealing with flat earthism which includes an example that touches on the answer to Erasmus's question:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2082&highlight=peru

  I have not yet seen recent evidence of flying dragons in California, but that does not mean they are not there.  I do have evidence of a flying dragon living in Lake Elizabeth a hundred or so miles north of Los Angeles throughout Spanish colonial times (when the Lake was named Laguna del Diablo) until the 1880's which was possibly the same dragon found exhausted (after a long flight?) in the Arizona southwest by two hunters which killed the dragon they came across (made possible by the fact of its weakened condition).  

  Reports of such beasts in south Texas are more common these days which indicate they may have survived in a desert fastness in the Mexican Sierra Madre which are much less populated or frequented (by a long shot) than California mountains.

  The conclusion of all this seems to me that Paradoxical's conclusion about the reason for their alleged scarcity is correct - they are repelled by man's civilization.  I remember reading (was it in Malachi?) a verse that seems to confirm this by indicating that a decisive mark of an extinct civilization is that of its land becoming a dwelling place of dragons.

  I think Paradoxical's point would apply just as well to sea serpents as the referenced post of mine would indicate.  Sea serpent sightings are down from what they were fifty, a hundred, and a hundred fifty years back.  However, this is not an indication that there are fewer sea serpents, and there are multiple good reasons for this.  First, there are NOT as many ships at sea as there used to be.  Second, the ships that do go to sea these days (big and small, commercial and pleasure) all follow well defined ocean shipping lanes.  Marine life in general avoid such well known areas of traffic.  There is also the important factor of scorn for anyone who would report such a thing.  

- Dionysios

?

Testing

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2006, 12:24:43 PM »
I would like someone to explain why there is no fizical proof left from this creatures (assuming they ever existed) allthogh we have fiz. proof of dinosaur existance.They would have have to be more recent than dinosaurs for so many civillisaiton drawing them...
  I for one dont really think the existed

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2006, 01:08:26 PM »
Dinosaur fossils ARE proof of dragons because dinosaurs ARE dragons.  The term dinosaur is simply a new term for this creature.  The word dinosaur was created and used for the very first time ever in 1842 by the British scientist Richard Owen, a student of the French scientist Cuvier.  The term dinosaur did not exist before that as the word "dragon" was what people used to refer to these beasts.  

  I have visited the Natural History Museum ofChina in Beijing, and Chinese scientists consider dinosaurs and dragons one and the same.

- Dionysios

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2006, 05:20:18 PM »
erasmus a possible reason for a lack of thunderbirds is that generally great predators have a very slow production rate (look at great white sharks) Also they could live very long times, and therefore again have very low reproduction rates.

i personally do beleive the there is (or atleast was) something in Loch Ness, and i think it may be possible that some dino's survived from whatever killed off the rest of them. but it is unlikely.


also dionysios for your dragon feeder person, could it not be possible that the king simple had some very expensive giant lizards (like the komodo dragon?). that would be a job that is very dangerous - one bite from a komodo and you will die from its posion - and therefore probably high in status.

?

Testing

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2006, 09:01:56 PM »
Dionysios i thought dragons were supposed to "spit fire" through their nose or moouth,I dont remember hearing of any dinosaur capable of that.

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2006, 03:12:06 AM »
we wouldn't be able to tell if a dragon could, we only recover bones.... we don't recover soft organs - which would be where you could see if it breathed fire.


and to how you could breathe fire erasmus all you would need is a pyrophoric material (in other words one that burns in contact with water).


still bloody unlikely though.

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2006, 07:58:21 AM »
I know why you people so resistant to the existence of dragons/dinosaurs. Because it would completely upset your evolution theory, along with geologic column. You can't have that, so you just choose to ignore the facts and blindly believe in your theory. Any religious zealot would do that, so, don't feel bad, just close your eyes and ears, and hope it will pass quickly.

Sea Serpents & Dragons
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2006, 08:11:38 AM »
Quote from: "googleSearch"
I know why you people so resistant to the existence of dragons/dinosaurs. Because it would completely upset your evolution theory, along with geologic column. You can't have that, so you just choose to ignore the facts and blindly believe in your theory. Any religious zealot would do that, so, don't feel bad, just close your eyes and ears, and hope it will pass quickly.


I, for one, don't see how the existence of dragons today could upset the evolution theory. Apparently, they were strong enough to evolve, and stay around, after the ice age.


By the way, who was resisting the theory? Almost everyone in the thread (give or take two people) believe dragons do/could exist...
Who really needs one of these things?