If a tree falls in a forest...

Yes. Of course it makes a sound. I will prove this by have a tape recorder in the woods while no one is around and put some det cord around the tree so it will fall at a specific time.
Sound: a vibration through a medium.

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Quote from: Jack on April 22, 2009, 09:30:13 PM

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Yes. I don't believe those quantum affect that cause things such as Schrodinger cat work on stuff like stars that are that massive and made of many particles. There also isn't away to get around it. If the particle stop interacting it will go supernova. with Schrodinger cat there are two possible outcomes, with a star at the end of it life at a certain size there is only one.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on April 22, 2009, 09:39:58 PM

Quote from: Jack on April 22, 2009, 09:30:13 PM

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Yes. I don't believe those quantum affect that cause things such as Schrodinger cat work on stuff like stars that are that massive and made of many particles. There also isn't away to get around it. If the particle stop interacting it will go supernova. with Schrodinger cat there are two possible outcomes, with a star at the end of it life at a certain size there is only one.

Why wouldn't it have any effect? Just because something is massive doesn't mean it's excluded from Quantum Mechanics. No matter what, as long as it's not observed in any fashion, Schroedinger's Cat holds true. There's always multiple choice for a theorized event. Either the star went supernova or it didn't. You can't know unless you observe it or the effects of it (should the Universe have gone along with that choice, such as nebula being remnants of a supernova).

Quote from: Hara Taiki on April 22, 2009, 09:45:27 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on April 22, 2009, 09:39:58 PM

Quote from: Jack on April 22, 2009, 09:30:13 PM

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Yes. I don't believe those quantum affect that cause things such as Schrodinger cat work on stuff like stars that are that massive and made of many particles. There also isn't away to get around it. If the particle stop interacting it will go supernova. with Schrodinger cat there are two possible outcomes, with a star at the end of it life at a certain size there is only one.

Why wouldn't it have any effect? Just because something is massive doesn't mean it's excluded from Quantum Mechanics. No matter what, as long as it's not observed in any fashion, Schroedinger's Cat holds true. There's always multiple choice for a theorized event. Either the star went supernova or it didn't. You can't know unless you observe it or the effects of it (should the Universe have gone along with that choice, such as nebula being remnants of a supernova).

But is there any way it couldn't have gone super nova? it seems like the only choice. With an atom there is a set probability that it will decay. I am fairly sure with a star it is a sure thing it will go supernova. at least as sure as you can be of anything in this universe.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on April 22, 2009, 09:45:27 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on April 22, 2009, 09:39:58 PM

Quote from: Jack on April 22, 2009, 09:30:13 PM

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Yes. I don't believe those quantum affect that cause things such as Schrodinger cat work on stuff like stars that are that massive and made of many particles. There also isn't away to get around it. If the particle stop interacting it will go supernova. with Schrodinger cat there are two possible outcomes, with a star at the end of it life at a certain size there is only one.

Why wouldn't it have any effect? Just because something is massive doesn't mean it's excluded from Quantum Mechanics. No matter what, as long as it's not observed in any fashion, Schroedinger's Cat holds true. There's always multiple choice for a theorized event. Either the star went supernova or it didn't. You can't know unless you observe it or the effects of it (should the Universe have gone along with that choice, such as nebula being remnants of a supernova).

But is there any way it couldn't have gone super nova? it seems like the only choice. With an atom there is a set probability that it will decay. I am fairly sure with a star it is a sure thing it will go supernova. at least as sure as you can be of anything in this universe.

It's undecided.

This is a classic Schroedinger's Cat problem. There's two possibilities, even with the tape recorder. Now, technically, common sense says the tree will make a sound and the recorder will record it and we will hear it. However, without being observed, the Universe will split into to possibilities for that event. One where it makes a sound, and one where it wont (lands on the recorder and no sound is recorded, no sound is heard, etc with similar events that lead to no sound heard).

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Anyways tho, I agree with Singularity.  You cannot ask me to assume something to be true then ask me if it's true.  I am already assuming that it is.

Here's a similar one from my professor:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur?

Quote from: Pongo on April 22, 2009, 11:58:06 PM

Anyways tho, I agree with Singularity.  You cannot ask me to assume something to be true then ask me if it's true.  I am already assuming that it is.

Yeah, I find the restrictions of general language to be entertaining at times. On the flip side, how else can you ask it?

"A tree might have fallen but you weren't there... did it fall?"
This too would piss people off. 

Yes, you already stated that it turned into a supernova.

You said nothing about this universe in any part of it.

This is like me asking "There are 3 jellybeans. How many jellybeans are there?" Then trying to factor in other Universes.

Quote from: Raist on April 23, 2009, 01:02:19 AM

Yes, you already stated that it turned into a supernova.

I did not specify that it must have happened in our universe, or that we recorded it; I just said a supernova happened. As soon as the star collapses, the part when it collapses can split into two universes. In one universe, a supernova did occur. In the other universe, a supernova did not occur. We did not record it: How are you certain that it happened in our universe?

Quote from: Raist on April 23, 2009, 02:35:39 AM

You said nothing about this universe in any part of it.

This is like me asking "There are 3 jellybeans. How many jellybeans are there?" Then trying to factor in other Universes.

That's the whole point; that's how many-worlds theory interpret the Schroedinger's Cat.

I didn't say it happened in our universe.

Your statement says that a supernova happened. So yes a supernova occurred within whatever context your hypothetical situation was made in.

How about this, since we're just playing with the wording:

A distant star turns into a supernova and no one or any devices was there to record it. We cannot observe it on Earth. Did the supernova occur in our universe?

There's two options; It goes supernova or it does not. At the moment that the event is supposed to occur, Quantum Mechanics dictates that the probability is 50/50 that the event will occur. This is true with all unobserved events. Obviously as the complexity of options increases, the probability changes accordingly. When a proton decays into an electron and neutron, there's also a 50/50 chance the event will occur at the time it's supposed to occur. It either decays or does not decay, and is the original catalyst to the Schroedinger's Cat theory.

For anything to be known, it must be observed. You are very welcome to say that probabilistically, it made a sound. There are no definitive answers in such a scenario.

You mean there is a 50/50 chance it will occur within its half-life. The probability of an event occurring at any one point on a continuum is infinitesimal.