Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism

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Pongo

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #330 on: April 21, 2009, 02:06:33 AM »
That the age of the Universe was narrowed down to two extremes. We can tell for sure it has to be older than a certain date, and younger than another date.

Ahhh yes, 'cept there is evidence that you refuse to look at.  So in actuality, the range is about 10,000 years to 4,500,000,000 years.

You are so wrong that even genetics can disprove that statement.  You can literary call on a completely different field of science to disprove you.  Like, the overwhelming, undeniable, provable points in geology aren't enough, you can see in biology that you are wrong.  If you stick your fingers in your ears and scream any louder you may go deaf.


And if you could prove the age of the earth to be old, it would unravel not only Christianity but multiple different religions with a creation story around the world.  Do you know why most creation evidence isn't peer reviewed?  The scientific establishment won't allow creationists to publish.  Both creationists and evolutionists have the same evidence. The difference is in how that evidence is interpreted.  As I've said before, both creation and evolution are faith positions based on different worldviews. Evolutionists exclude God from consideration a priori, not because of the evidence.   Besides, who wants their bust scuplted.  I have alot of chest hair.  It probably wouldn't look good.

This is my favorite part.  It is so full of blatant and proud ignorance that I can hardly decide where to begin.  Seriously, I could write pages of information on that paragraph alone.  For the sake of sanity, I shall stay succinct.  You cannot unravel religion with facts.  If they don't kill you for proposing them, they will deny the facts or change the church.  A few hours in a library is more than enough time to disprove your religion.

The next point is where your ignorance truly shines.  It's almost like it's a point of pride.  You have a gross misunderstanding of how the scientific community operates.  You think that it has a governing body that discriminates on religious ideas and puts them down before they can gain momentum.  No one is keeping creationists from publishing.  If you have a new idea or theory and the evidence to back it up, it will be peer reviewed.  You think people are trying to keep creationists down because that's what you have been told.  The truth is much different.  The reason that creationists don't get published is because they have no science on their side.  You cannot publish in a scientific arena with no science.  I'm going to bold this next part because I think it's very important that you understand your hypocrisy.  The church has had 2000 + years of mainstream science where they disallowed scientific people to publish by killing them.  Science came along and explained things better.  Science is not trying to suppress religion, religion is trying to suppress science through any means necessary.

You argue that the evidence is interpreted differently.  Saying that a half a dozen different dating methods are wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying that geological proof in the fossil record is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying genetics is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying astronomical evidence is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying tectonic science is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  You can't simply say that everything in science that contradicts you beliefs is wrong then in the very next breath say that you interpret the same data differently.  You don't interpret it differently, you dismiss it outright.

Faith: "belief that is not based on proof."
Science: "systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation."
Do you cross your fingers behind your back when you liken these two things?  Are you being purposefully obtuse?  Do you truly think your argument gains something by saying science is synonymous to faith?  You lack a child's understanding of what science is. 


Moving on, you argue repeatedly that because the age of the earth cannot be determined exactly, it must not be accurate.  I cannot count the exact number of molecules in the ocean.  Must I disregard all other evidence for the ocean's existence and conclude because I cannot know exactly how many molecules it contains that it is false?  This is a typical "all-or-nothing" creationist argument.  It is not how science works.

Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.

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Parsifal

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #331 on: April 21, 2009, 03:06:17 AM »
This thread is one big tl;dr.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #332 on: April 21, 2009, 11:40:48 AM »
This thread is one big tl;dr.
thanks for your helpful insights. ::)
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #333 on: April 22, 2009, 07:39:18 PM »
@singularity,  Ill get back to you just not tonite.
....   :'(
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #334 on: April 22, 2009, 07:42:03 PM »
I think he forgot about us.  :-\
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #335 on: April 23, 2009, 10:39:15 AM »
Covering 3 out of 5, not bad.  And one of those came up with way less than even 1 billion.  So by your own confession we are now at a range of 110,000,000 and 4.5 billion.  Thanx for disproving your own theory.  Great Job

I have more if you want.

My range still fits. My minimum age was 110,000,000. Also, that figure was for how long the ocean has been around. The ocean is not the age of the universe.

Not in your theory anyway.

Do you want 5 more?
yes please.  :)
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #336 on: April 23, 2009, 06:03:52 PM »
I think he forgot about us.  :-\
WardoggKC130FE
Last Active:     Today [April 23 2009] at 08:26:09 PM

 >:(
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Pongo

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #337 on: April 23, 2009, 09:01:37 PM »
Patience people, Wardogg will be back any day telling us that he has better things to do than post replies to our ludicrous ideas and concepts.  He will undoubtedly tell us to get lives and then pick a single argument to refute (My money is on one of Singularity's).  He will ignore the rest.  No worries though, we will all jump on his reply and the game will begin anew. 

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #338 on: April 23, 2009, 09:14:21 PM »
I was arguing with him about his "proof" though. I was hoping he would find holes in my evidence.   :'(
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #339 on: April 23, 2009, 09:20:47 PM »
5 v 1 can be exhausting you know.  I will be back when I get bored and nothing to do.  I love to talk about this.  SO I will come back to it.

Patience people, Wardogg will be back any day telling us that he has better things to do than post replies to our ludicrous ideas and concepts.  He will undoubtedly tell us to get lives and then pick a single argument to refute (My money is on one of Singularity's).  He will ignore the rest.  No worries though, we will all jump on his reply and the game will begin anew. 


You know I have better things to do than come on here and post replies to your ludicrous ideas and concepts.  You need to get a life.  But this one post does need a reply.

A vague story passed down orally for generations, before being written by men, edited by men, and rewritten by men, with no actual factual verification, filled with obvious contradictions and absurdities has little sway over me. I filter my sources only to ensure that the messages I would be relying on are factual.

Yeah like ancient Egypt.  Good to know those fuckers never existed either.
I'm not sure I follow. I have every reason to believe Egyptians existed. It seems you are replacing my argument with a flawed analogy to suit your own purpose in convincing yourself that my argument is also flawed. It seems to carry the essence of any strawman, but I don't think it's intentional.


You believe ancient Egypt existed exactly as it has been passed down from person to person to today's version?  Isn't that exactly what you are arguing against here?   Regardless it is definitely not a strawman.



Hey Pongo.  Blow me fucktard. 

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Pongo

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #340 on: April 23, 2009, 09:24:10 PM »
I was arguing with him about his "proof" though. I was hoping he would find holes in my evidence.   :'(

Oh, I see.  I've been more attacking his beliefs and berating his person.  I think I called him ignorant a few times, kinda wish I'd alternated in a few other adjectives.  Anyways, when posts like that aren't replied to it's not overly bothersome.  If he does eventually reply to me, he'll probably take the high road and not stoop to my level.  I will however most likely, continue posting trite, trivial, and terse attacks on his religion.  It's what I do.


EDIT NOTE:  Apparently I was wrong.  He made me LOL tho!

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #341 on: April 23, 2009, 09:32:10 PM »
I think he forgot about us.  :-\
WardoggKC130FE
Last Active:     Today [April 23 2009] at 08:26:09 PM

 >:(


Quit stalking me. I'm armed you know.  No seriously, I am.  ;)

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #342 on: April 23, 2009, 09:52:31 PM »
Quit stalking me. I'm armed you know.  No seriously, I am.  ;)
E-stalking is safe enough where I'm not worried.

You believe ancient Egypt existed exactly as it has been passed down from person to person to today's version?  Isn't that exactly what you are arguing against here? Regardless it is definitely not a strawman.
No. I believe only what we can learn about the ancient Egyptians by studying artifacts, hieroglyphics, relics, documentation by neighboring civilizations, et cetera.

Quote
Yeah like ancient Egypt.  Good to know those fuckers never existed either.
Are you suggesting that we believe that the Egyptians existed soley by word of mouth since ancient Egyptian times?

I thought it was strawman only because I assumed you knew that there are people in Egypt studying the remains and finding out more about that civilization every day. They publish there studies, magazines or the discovery channel picks up in it, and it leaks back into common knowledge.

Do you have another example of myth and legend that we should take seriously besides the scope of the bible?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 09:54:10 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #343 on: April 23, 2009, 10:53:46 PM »
I don't want to go off on a wild tangent here but....are you telling me we get all this from hieroglyphics?

"Cleopatra was born in 69 B.C. in Alexandria. She was the third daughter in line to her father Ptolemy XII; she later had another sister and two younger brothers. Her younger brother Ptolemy XIII later reigned with her.

Cleopatra?s story is one of the most famous ever.

Not only because of her great love, but because she was deeply in love of Egypt and she is classified by historians to be the last Pharoah of Egypt.

Cleopatra came to the throne after death of her two elder sisters and after death of her father whom was much hated by the Egyptian and had fled to Rome several years before.

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Pongo

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #344 on: April 23, 2009, 11:35:32 PM »
"Cleopatra was born in 69 B.C. in Alexandria."

I am going to attempt to thwart your argument in the first sentence of your citation.  Do you know why the city of Alexandria is named such?  It's because Alexander the Great conquered it 200 years before Cleopatra was born. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great 

There is a wealth of information on Alex and I doubt very much that any of it was discovered translating hieroglyphs.  Do you believe that Alexander the Great was real? 

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #345 on: April 24, 2009, 10:26:40 AM »
I don't want to go off on a wild tangent here but....are you telling me we get all this from hieroglyphics?

"Cleopatra was born in 69 B.C. in Alexandria. She was the third daughter in line to her father Ptolemy XII; she later had another sister and two younger brothers. Her younger brother Ptolemy XIII later reigned with her.

Cleopatra?s story is one of the most famous ever.

Not only because of her great love, but because she was deeply in love of Egypt and she is classified by historians to be the last Pharoah of Egypt.

Cleopatra came to the throne after death of her two elder sisters and after death of her father whom was much hated by the Egyptian and had fled to Rome several years before.
Well the Rosetta stone helped a lot, but I am including all other investigatory sources and not simply rumors from two more than millennium ago. You're telling me we know all this from word of mouth? Where did you pull it from? Your common knowledge or the internet?

My first hit on Google:
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 10:41:17 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #346 on: April 24, 2009, 09:11:26 PM »
That the age of the Universe was narrowed down to two extremes. We can tell for sure it has to be older than a certain date, and younger than another date.

Ahhh yes, 'cept there is evidence that you refuse to look at.  So in actuality, the range is about 10,000 years to 4,500,000,000 years.

You are so wrong that even genetics can disprove that statement.  You can literary call on a completely different field of science to disprove you.  Like, the overwhelming, undeniable, provable points in geology aren't enough, you can see in biology that you are wrong.  If you stick your fingers in your ears and scream any louder you may go deaf.

Bold statement, yet no proof to back your ridiculous claim.

And if you could prove the age of the earth to be old, it would unravel not only Christianity but multiple different religions with a creation story around the world.  Do you know why most creation evidence isn't peer reviewed?  The scientific establishment won't allow creationists to publish.  Both creationists and evolutionists have the same evidence. The difference is in how that evidence is interpreted.  As I've said before, both creation and evolution are faith positions based on different worldviews. Evolutionists exclude God from consideration a priori, not because of the evidence.   Besides, who wants their bust scuplted.  I have alot of chest hair.  It probably wouldn't look good.

This is my favorite part.  It is so full of blatant and proud ignorance that I can hardly decide where to begin.  Seriously, I could write pages of information on that paragraph alone.  For the sake of sanity, I shall stay succinct.  You cannot unravel religion with facts.  If they don't kill you for proposing them, they will deny the facts or change the church.  A few hours in a library is more than enough time to disprove your religion.
  Funny no one has done that yet then.


The next point is where your ignorance truly shines.  It's almost like it's a point of pride.  You have a gross misunderstanding of how the scientific community operates.  You think that it has a governing body that discriminates on religious ideas and puts them down before they can gain momentum.  No one is keeping creationists from publishing.  [/b]
  Really?  Have you seen Ben Stein's Expelled.  The funny thing is put that in google and find out how many websites ATTACK that movie.



You argue that the evidence is interpreted differently.  Saying that a half a dozen different dating methods are wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying that geological proof in the fossil record is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying genetics is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying astronomical evidence is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying tectonic science is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  You can't simply say that everything in science that contradicts you beliefs is wrong then in the very next breath say that you interpret the same data differently.  You don't interpret it differently, you dismiss it outright.
  And science doesn't when it comes to ID?


Faith: "belief that is not based on proof."
Science: "systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation."
Do you cross your fingers behind your back when you liken these two things?  Are you being purposefully obtuse?  Do you truly think your argument gains something by saying science is synonymous to faith?  You lack a child's understanding of what science is. 
The point is you are trusting someone else with your belief if you haven't done the experiment yourself.  True or false?


Moving on, you argue repeatedly that because the age of the earth cannot be determined exactly, it must not be accurate.  I cannot count the exact number of molecules in the ocean.  Must I disregard all other evidence for the ocean's existence and conclude because I cannot know exactly how many molecules it contains that it is false?  This is a typical "all-or-nothing" creationist argument.  It is not how science works.

Yeah typical.   ::)


Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.
  The point being if you can't nail down a date then 6000 years is as good as number as 4 billion.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #347 on: April 24, 2009, 09:20:04 PM »


Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.
  The point being if you can't nail down a date then 6000 years is as good as number as 4 billion.
That is like looking at a middle age man and since I don't know his true age so it is possible for him to be 6 years old. Gray hair and all.
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #348 on: April 24, 2009, 09:22:28 PM »


Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.
  The point being if you can't nail down a date then 6000 years is as good as number as 4 billion.
That is like looking at a middle age man and since I don't know his true age so it is possible for him to be 6 years old. Gray hair and all.

No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.

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Proleg

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #349 on: April 24, 2009, 09:34:37 PM »
No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.
Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the formation of crude oil and natural gas takes?

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Raist

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #350 on: April 24, 2009, 09:53:28 PM »


Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.
  The point being if you can't nail down a date then 6000 years is as good as number as 4 billion.
That is like looking at a middle age man and since I don't know his true age so it is possible for him to be 6 years old. Gray hair and all.

No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.

The evidence you posted said it is at least 10,000,000 years old. Meaning all your dates are wrong.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #351 on: April 24, 2009, 10:07:23 PM »
No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.
Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the formation of crude oil and natural gas takes?


By a geologist.  With a PHd no less.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/origin-of-oil

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Raist

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #352 on: April 24, 2009, 10:39:16 PM »
No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.
Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the formation of crude oil and natural gas takes?


By a geologist.  With a PHd no less.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/origin-of-oil

Lol. A woman with a PHd the other day gave me a lecture on "fiction." This was physics class, not english.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #353 on: April 24, 2009, 10:43:04 PM »
No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.
Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the formation of crude oil and natural gas takes?


By a geologist.  With a PHd no less.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/origin-of-oil

Lol. A woman with a PHd the other day gave me a lecture on "fiction." This was physics class, not english.

Thats a very funny and interesting story. 

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Pongo

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #354 on: April 24, 2009, 10:43:24 PM »
That the age of the Universe was narrowed down to two extremes. We can tell for sure it has to be older than a certain date, and younger than another date.

Ahhh yes, 'cept there is evidence that you refuse to look at.  So in actuality, the range is about 10,000 years to 4,500,000,000 years.

You are so wrong that even genetics can disprove that statement.  You can literary call on a completely different field of science to disprove you.  Like, the overwhelming, undeniable, provable points in geology aren't enough, you can see in biology that you are wrong.  If you stick your fingers in your ears and scream any louder you may go deaf.

Bold statement, yet no proof to back your ridiculous claim.

And if you could prove the age of the earth to be old, it would unravel not only Christianity but multiple different religions with a creation story around the world.  Do you know why most creation evidence isn't peer reviewed?  The scientific establishment won't allow creationists to publish.  Both creationists and evolutionists have the same evidence. The difference is in how that evidence is interpreted.  As I've said before, both creation and evolution are faith positions based on different worldviews. Evolutionists exclude God from consideration a priori, not because of the evidence.   Besides, who wants their bust scuplted.  I have alot of chest hair.  It probably wouldn't look good.

This is my favorite part.  It is so full of blatant and proud ignorance that I can hardly decide where to begin.  Seriously, I could write pages of information on that paragraph alone.  For the sake of sanity, I shall stay succinct.  You cannot unravel religion with facts.  If they don't kill you for proposing them, they will deny the facts or change the church.  A few hours in a library is more than enough time to disprove your religion.
  Funny no one has done that yet then.


The next point is where your ignorance truly shines.  It's almost like it's a point of pride.  You have a gross misunderstanding of how the scientific community operates.  You think that it has a governing body that discriminates on religious ideas and puts them down before they can gain momentum.  No one is keeping creationists from publishing.  [/b]
  Really?  Have you seen Ben Stein's Expelled.  The funny thing is put that in google and find out how many websites ATTACK that movie.



You argue that the evidence is interpreted differently.  Saying that a half a dozen different dating methods are wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying that geological proof in the fossil record is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying genetics is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying astronomical evidence is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  Saying tectonic science is wrong is not interpreting the data differently.  You can't simply say that everything in science that contradicts you beliefs is wrong then in the very next breath say that you interpret the same data differently.  You don't interpret it differently, you dismiss it outright.
  And science doesn't when it comes to ID?


Faith: "belief that is not based on proof."
Science: "systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation."
Do you cross your fingers behind your back when you liken these two things?  Are you being purposefully obtuse?  Do you truly think your argument gains something by saying science is synonymous to faith?  You lack a child's understanding of what science is. 
The point is you are trusting someone else with your belief if you haven't done the experiment yourself.  True or false?


Moving on, you argue repeatedly that because the age of the earth cannot be determined exactly, it must not be accurate.  I cannot count the exact number of molecules in the ocean.  Must I disregard all other evidence for the ocean's existence and conclude because I cannot know exactly how many molecules it contains that it is false?  This is a typical "all-or-nothing" creationist argument.  It is not how science works.

Yeah typical.   ::)


Finally, how can anyone prove the age of the earth beyond a shadow of a doubt?  Are you looking for the exact second it formed?   I think that you would have trouble distinguishing when you would classify it as a planet, let alone earth.  This is a feat that is likely to never be obtained, yet it does nothing to belittle the science of the age of the earth.  I hope that one day you can understand why this is.
  The point being if you can't nail down a date then 6000 years is as good as number as 4 billion.



A) Are you asking me for evidence of evolution?  Any of these books will do.  I think that the first two will be the best read for you.  I strongly recommend the first one.  Dawkins's books are a bit of a long read, but very interesting.  The last one is a different way to look at everyday life when you apply evolution to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwins-God-Scientists-Evolution/dp/0060930497/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637206&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0670020532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-150th-Anniversary/dp/0451529065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637174&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Anniversary-Introduction/dp/0199291152/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Evolution/dp/061861916X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Dummies-Math-Science/dp/0470117737/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637866&sr=1-12
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Everyone-Darwins-Theory-Change/dp/0385340923/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-11



B) A five year-old can disprove your religion (I'm not talking about disproving the idea God, that's a concept intentionally created as unprovable.  It's as easy to disprove God as it is to prove it).  Anyone can do it.  I was being generous by allowing a few hours in the library.

C) I have not seen Expelled, but the reasons that people attack that movie is because he used dubious methods in gaining interviews and misrepresented information.  Furthermore, this is not an applicable example to the situation because Stein isn't proposing a theory or submitting any new evidence.  He is simply shooting holes in evolution (ineffectively).

D) Intelligent Design isn't an aspect of science, it's a facet of creationism.  The Dover trial saw to the crushing defeat of ID.  The idea was thoroughly and effectively routed.  ID does not interpret data differently, it denies or manipulates it.  It's also worthy to note that the ID lawyers didn't have a response to the evidence of how androgynous retroviruses proved evolution.  They simply said they had nothing to say.  They didn't try to argue the evidence or submit an alternate hypotheses.  Ask your preacher how we can find androgynous retroviruses (<---That's a plural word) in the exact same DNA sequence locations in chimpanzee's and humans.  

E) True, I am trusting anothers conclusions on their experiment.  However, if so inclined, I could repeat their experiments for myself.  That's why it's science.  If someone tells me that birds are decedents of dinosaurs, I can go look at the fossils, compare DNA of birds, compare bone structures, and many other things.  If someone tells me that Noah and his family are the only survivors of a global flood, Not only can I not find any evidence of this, but if I ask them how they know, they will say, "Because I know."  Also, you can disprove the Noah story with genetics as well!

F) Refine your argument.

G) I want you to think awhile on your closing argument.  Try and think of analogies that apply.  If you truly think it's a sound argument then post back saying so and I will tell you why it's not.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 10:46:48 PM by Pongo »

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Proleg

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #355 on: April 24, 2009, 11:00:06 PM »
No but you can narrow it down to a decade.  Raist is talking a 3.5 billion year gap.  Thats fucking huge.  Ive said myself the earth is 6K to 10K.  No one knows for sure.
Just out of curiosity, how long do you think the formation of crude oil and natural gas takes?


By a geologist.  With a PHd no less.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/origin-of-oil
I love how the guy cites himself.

*

WardoggKC130FE

  • 11857
  • What website is that? MadeUpMonkeyShit.com?
Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #356 on: April 24, 2009, 11:21:40 PM »
A) Are you asking me for evidence of evolution?  Any of these books will do.  I think that the first two will be the best read for you.  I strongly recommend the first one.  Dawkins's books are a bit of a long read, but very interesting.  The last one is a different way to look at everyday life when you apply evolution to it.

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwins-God-Scientists-Evolution/dp/0060930497/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637206&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0670020532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-150th-Anniversary/dp/0451529065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637174&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Anniversary-Introduction/dp/0199291152/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Evolution/dp/061861916X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637237&sr=1-4
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Dummies-Math-Science/dp/0470117737/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637866&sr=1-12
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Everyone-Darwins-Theory-Change/dp/0385340923/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240637328&sr=1-11



B) A five year-old can disprove your religion (I'm not talking about disproving the idea God, that's a concept intentionally created as unprovable.  It's as easy to disprove God as it is to prove it).  Anyone can do it.  I was being generous by allowing a few hours in the library.

C) I have not seen Expelled, but the reasons that people attack that movie is because he used dubious methods in gaining interviews and misrepresented information.  Furthermore, this is not an applicable example to the situation because Stein isn't proposing a theory or submitting any new evidence.  He is simply shooting holes in evolution (ineffectively).

D) Intelligent Design isn't an aspect of science, it's a facet of creationism.  The Dover trial saw to the crushing defeat of ID.  The idea was thoroughly and effectively routed.  ID does not interpret data differently, it denies or manipulates it.  It's also worthy to note that the ID lawyers didn't have a response to the evidence of how androgynous retroviruses proved evolution.  They simply said they had nothing to say.  They didn't try to argue the evidence or submit an alternate hypotheses.  Ask your preacher how we can find androgynous retroviruses (<---That's a plural word) in the exact same DNA sequence locations in chimpanzee's and humans.  

E) True, I am trusting anothers conclusions on their experiment.  However, if so inclined, I could repeat their experiments for myself.  That's why it's science.  If someone tells me that birds are decedents of dinosaurs, I can go look at the fossils, compare DNA of birds, compare bone structures, and many other things.  If someone tells me that Noah and his family are the only survivors of a global flood, Not only can I not find any evidence of this, but if I ask them how they know, they will say, "Because I know."  Also, you can disprove the Noah story with genetics as well!

F) Refine your argument.

G) I want you to think awhile on your closing argument.  Try and think of analogies that apply.  If you truly think it's a sound argument then post back saying so and I will tell you why it's not.

A Ill buy yours if you buy mine.

http://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Design-Between-Science-Theology/dp/0830815813
http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Universe-Proceedings-Wethersfield-Institute/dp/0898708095/ref=pd_sim_b_2
http://www.amazon.com/Icons-Evolution-Science-Teach-About/dp/0895262002/ref=pd_sim_b_4
http://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-Design-101-Leading-Experts/dp/0825427819/ref=pd_sim_b_6
http://www.amazon.com/Cells-Design-Chemistry-Creators-Artistry/dp/0801068274/ref=pd_sim_b_1
http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Intelligent-Design-Everything-ConversantLife-com%C2%AE/dp/0736924426/ref=pd_sim_b_4
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Universe-Way-Hugh-Ross/dp/0801013046/ref=pd_sim_b_12

I could post as many as you did but you get my point.


B Disprove my religion please.

C So you havent seen it yet you criticize it.  Interesting.

D I did.  He said God created that way for no reason.

E And yet you have done of those things.  Blind faith anyone?
Also in regards to the Ark

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40060
http://www.grmi.org/Richard_Riss/evidences2/08ark.html

F what was my argument again?

G ok sounds good.

*

Pongo

  • Planar Moderator
  • 6758
Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #357 on: April 25, 2009, 12:15:59 AM »
A) How many of those books on your list have you read?  Can you recommend any one in particular?  If you read Ken Miller's book (the first link) I swear I'll read any book on that list that you want me to.  However, I think you missed the point of me posting them.  You asked how evolution can prove the age of the earth older than 10K years.  Any book on that list will suffice in meeting this criteria.  What was your list proving?  That there are ID books published?  ID says that the earth is old anyways, so I am in fact missing your point.

B) Is there any particular part of your religion that you would like me to disprove?  Do I get to pick what part?  If you want to read a well written attack on God in general, I would recommend another one of Dawkin's books, The God Delusion.  If you are really interested in me logically disproving your religion, I will, but if you are asking me to do it simply because you think I can't, then I shall save my fingers the trouble of typing. 

C) I haven't seen Expelled but I have seen reviews of it on youtube.  From them I learned that Stein is dishonest and manipulative (They even kicked someone out of the theater who was thanked in the credits before the showing of the premiere because they thought he might cause a scene from all the dishonesty in the film).  If you think that because I have not personally seen it, then I cannot form an opinion is a very strange way to view things.  I did not witness the holocaust but I have a very strong opinion on the topic. 

D) God created androgynous retroviruses to definitively prove the theory of evolution for no reason?  He added that to our DNA in such a way to perfectly prove we are descended from a common ancestor as chimpanzees for absolutely no reason?  Let me ask this question one more time.  God, an all-knowing being, created unarguable proof of evolution for no reason what so ever?  I find it mind boggling that you propose that an all-knowing being would create something in such a way to prove himself wrong.  Is this all-loving being trying to throw us off the scent?  No, that would be a reason.  So no reason?  He just threw those retroviruses in because he needed some space to fill? (<--still a reason)  Not only that, but he threw them in, in such a way as to make it look like we evolved?  I'm asking so many questions here in hopes that you fell really really dumb trying to verbalize your answers.

E) No, I haven't, but you again missed the point.  I COULD do them.  Also, your Noah's arc proofs are laughable at best.  Find me something scientific or don't play in the big-kids playground.

F) I don't know, I didn't understand it.

G) I'm glad you accepted, let me know when you are done considering all the angles of your words.

*

Soze

  • 1291
  • Flat Earth Proponent
Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #358 on: April 25, 2009, 12:21:49 AM »
C) I haven't seen Expelled but I have seen reviews of it on youtube.  From them I learned that Stein is dishonest and manipulative (They even kicked someone out of the theater who was thanked in the credits before the showing of the premiere because they thought he might cause a scene from all the dishonesty in the film).  If you think that because I have not personally seen it, then I cannot form an opinion is a very strange way to view things.  I did not witness the holocaust but I have a very strong opinion on the topic.
I know many creationists who picked at the movie for its numerous problems.  ;D

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #359 on: April 25, 2009, 01:46:55 PM »
You know I have better things to do than come on here and post replies to your ludicrous ideas and concepts.  You need to get a life. 



That is all.