Questions for Both FE and RE

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Questions for Both FE and RE
« on: June 19, 2006, 10:45:55 PM »
Hi Guys,
I thought I'd ask some questions from a neutral standpoint. Please don't fill this post with speculation or mathematical jargon. I'd like simple answers that either PROOVE or DISPROOVE these questions. Please, no speculation or opinions, only hard FACTS, proven by either photo, personal encounter, simple logic etc.

1) If the world in indeed a ball, why doesn't the government take a very easy and readily available option to stop these people saying it's flat? Take two people from each group of though up in a shuttle and let them see it for themselves. Running, un-edited film of what they see. This would either proove or disproove the theory.

2) HOW exactly is the government protecting this alleged ice wall that surrounds us? Supposedly this wall would be huge!! How is it possible they can protect every inch of it from someone getting to it?

3) Which government are we talking about?

4) It was mentioned in one of the threads that if one were to travel due East, and they believed the world was a ball, this would make sence. If they believed the earth was flat, this would also make sence because they would simply circle the earth. If the centre point for a compas is in the middle of a flat earth, then surely, travelling due south would proove or disproove the theory. The person would either reach the ice wall or would circle the globe and end up where they started. Why hasn't this been tested.

5) I heard that the FE people believe that there is no gravity, but we are travelling up. If this is the case, what is propelling us? Also, what direction are we travelling in. Surely travel in one direction cannot not continue for an infinate amount of time.

6) In a flat earth scenario, what causes tides?

7) In a flat earth scenario, how is it explained that in one hemisphere, people see certain constilations that they cannot see in the other, and vice versa?

?

walrus

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2006, 10:47:29 PM »
4: Because nobody in their right mind/the correct finances takes these people seriously.

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2006, 11:11:17 PM »
To answer your first one, there's not enough people who believe that the Earth is indeed flat. It would be different if the government could disprove the Earth being sphere. It's like asking why doesn't the government disprove vampires?
y the power of truth, I, a living man, have conquered the universe.

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 11:27:58 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
To answer your first one, there's not enough people who believe that the Earth is indeed flat. It would be different if the government could disprove the Earth being sphere. It's like asking why doesn't the government disprove vampires?


I think i shall turn the tables here Welbourne.   Prove the earth is flat.

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 11:34:01 PM »
I think I shall straighten the tables back for rogue. I know that the Earth is round.
y the power of truth, I, a living man, have conquered the universe.

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 11:37:00 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
I think I shall straighten the tables back for rogue. I know that the Earth is round.


Just checkin! :D

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2006, 05:07:25 AM »
hmm only one question for the RE'rs and the answer is because they don't give a damn.


seriously who cares if some people think the earth is flat? as long as the people building satellites, people who are navigating oceans, pilots, etc all know its round who cares if some people think its flat?

?

\/R52

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2006, 05:59:11 AM »
Quote from: "jiffy"
Hi Guys,
I thought I'd ask some questions from a neutral standpoint. Please don't fill this post with speculation or mathematical jargon. I'd like simple answers that either PROOVE or DISPROOVE these questions. Please, no speculation or opinions, only hard FACTS, proven by either photo, personal encounter, simple logic etc....


Could have already been answered (cba to read all replies lol :P)  so let me have a go, bearing in mind I also have a neutral scientific stand on this.

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1) If the world in indeed a ball, why doesn't the government take a very easy and readily available option to stop these people saying it's flat? Take two people from each group of though up in a shuttle and let them see it for themselves. Running, un-edited film of what they see. This would either proove or disproove the theory.


Unless you were there, filming it youself, how could you ever proove it was unedited footage?  Secondly, did you see Space Cadets on channel 4?  going into space can be hoaxed by a TV station, so imagine how much more convincing a similar government hoax would be?  Even if you "saw" a round earth, how could you prove it was real?


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2) HOW exactly is the government protecting this alleged ice wall that surrounds us? Supposedly this wall would be huge!! How is it possible they can protect every inch of it from someone getting to it?


Very good q.  But if they lied about the earth being round, surely they could also subtract the number of guards from the world population count?  The true world population could be 12 billion (in apose to 6 billion as is stated) which would make a guard for every man, woman and child on the planet.  And dont come back with "you cant fit the world population on antarctica" because you can fit 6 billion people on the isle of wight if you tried (and thats far smaller)

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3) Which government are we talking about?


All of them.

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4) It was mentioned in one of the threads that if one were to travel due East, and they believed the world was a ball, this would make sence. If they believed the earth was flat, this would also make sence because they would simply circle the earth. If the centre point for a compas is in the middle of a flat earth, then surely, travelling due south would proove or disproove the theory. The person would either reach the ice wall or would circle the globe and end up where they started. Why hasn't this been tested.


If they reached the icewall, they would be swept away by the guards and/or brainwashed and/or otherwise convinced somehow that they had infact traveled over antarctica.  The compas would always point north reguardless of if the earth is flat or round, so that doesnt proove anything either way.

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5) I heard that the FE people believe that there is no gravity, but we are travelling up. If this is the case, what is propelling us? Also, what direction are we travelling in. Surely travel in one direction cannot not continue for an infinate amount of time.


In physics as we know it, the universe is expanding, and in fact is accelerating in its expansion rate.  No one has yet been able to explain this, but it could well be explained be the same force.  (dark matter and such)

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6) In a flat earth scenario, what causes tides?


I believe that the popular concensus is a slight wobble of the disk.  Although I am still unconvinced by this explanation, because if that were the case (even with the icewall reflecting the wave) one coast of a country would have a high tide while the other side would suffer a low tide.

I personally think it's more plausable that its something more like the motion of the planet moving upwards (as of the gravity explanation) causes the seas to retract (because they are compressed by the motion) This would create a compression wave from surface-to-floor, which would reflect back up and result in a high tide.

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7) In a flat earth scenario, how is it explained that in one hemisphere, people see certain constilations that they cannot see in the other, and vice versa?


A very good q idd.  I can not answer that one. :)

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2006, 08:12:33 AM »
As virus has answered your other questions, i will cover the last:

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7) In a flat earth scenario, how is it explained that in one hemisphere, people see certain constilations that they cannot see in the other, and vice versa?


This is a simle one - because stars are also disks, then they will not be seen the same from different angles, as they will not be emmitting the same amount of light in the same way from every angle. Thus, the stars look different depending on your position on Earth.

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2006, 09:40:30 AM »
Quote from: "\/R52"
Quote from: "jiffy"
Quote
4) It was mentioned in one of the threads that if one were to travel due East, and they believed the world was a ball, this would make sence. If they believed the earth was flat, this would also make sence because they would simply circle the earth. If the centre point for a compas is in the middle of a flat earth, then surely, travelling due south would proove or disproove the theory. The person would either reach the ice wall or would circle the globe and end up where they started. Why hasn't this been tested.


If they reached the icewall, they would be swept away by the guards and/or brainwashed and/or otherwise convinced somehow that they had infact traveled over antarctica.  The compas would always point north reguardless of if the earth is flat or round, so that doesnt proove anything either way.


Explain how a compass would always point north near the ice walls on a FE, please?  I have lurked for some time and it seems the general FE'er consensus (and supported in the F.A.Q.) is that moving east or west would have you travel in a circle within the world's disc, maintaining an equal distance from the north pole/center.  By definition, this explicitly shuts down the idea that a compass would always point north near the ice walls, regardless of the direction you faced.

Some elaboration please?

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2006, 06:44:23 PM »
Quote from: "psouza4"
Quote from: "\/R52"
Quote from: "jiffy"
Quote
4) It was mentioned in one of the threads that if one were to travel due East, and they believed the world was a ball, this would make sence. If they believed the earth was flat, this would also make sence because they would simply circle the earth. If the centre point for a compas is in the middle of a flat earth, then surely, travelling due south would proove or disproove the theory. The person would either reach the ice wall or would circle the globe and end up where they started. Why hasn't this been tested.


If they reached the icewall, they would be swept away by the guards and/or brainwashed and/or otherwise convinced somehow that they had infact traveled over antarctica.  The compas would always point north reguardless of if the earth is flat or round, so that doesnt proove anything either way.


Explain how a compass would always point north near the ice walls on a FE, please?  I have lurked for some time and it seems the general FE'er consensus (and supported in the F.A.Q.) is that moving east or west would have you travel in a circle within the world's disc, maintaining an equal distance from the north pole/center.  By definition, this explicitly shuts down the idea that a compass would always point north near the ice walls, regardless of the direction you faced.

Some elaboration please?


Well, in a way, he's right, but I don't see how this would not prove or disprove the theory. The needle will indeed always point north. The point is, according to the FE theory if you travel due East, that is you travel at a direct 90 degree angle right of where the needle is, you will continue in a circle with the centre of the earth (north pole) on your left. My argument is then that if you were to to travel due south (180 degrees from where the needle is pointing), you would travel in the opposite direction from the centre of the earth. In a FE scenario, if we were to keep heading in this direction, we would then reach the outer rim, or I suppose if we continued, we would reach outer space. In a RE scenario, we would circle the globe and end up back where we started. This to me is a very simple way to solve the puzzle. Why hasn't this been tested?

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2006, 06:48:54 PM »
Quote from: "\/R52"
Unless you were there, filming it youself, how could you ever proove it was unedited footage?  Secondly, did you see Space Cadets on channel 4?  going into space can be hoaxed by a TV station, so imagine how much more convincing a similar government hoax would be?  Even if you "saw" a round earth, how could you prove it was real?

Because, you are taking two of each group of thought up. You ask them what they saw. If their stories are different, you know someone is lying.

Quote from: "\/R52"
Very good q.  But if they lied about the earth being round, surely they could also subtract the number of guards from the world population count?  The true world population could be 12 billion (in apose to 6 billion as is stated) which would make a guard for every man, woman and child on the planet.  And dont come back with "you cant fit the world population on antarctica" because you can fit 6 billion people on the isle of wight if you tried (and thats far smaller)

Very possible I suppose.

?

Erasmus

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Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2006, 08:56:46 PM »
Quote from: "jiffy"
mathematical jargon.


What is with people who say they want proof, but not "mathematical jargon"?  What's wrong with mathematical jargon?  How else do you prove anything?

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I'd like simple answers that either PROOVE or DISPROOVE these questions. Please, no speculation or opinions, only hard FACTS, proven by either photo, personal encounter, simple logic etc.


Unless you're talking strictly about mathematical jargon -- which cannot be proven by photo or personal encounter -- you are asking the impossible.

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1) If the world in indeed a ball, why doesn't the government take a very easy and readily available option to stop these people saying it's flat? Take two people from each group of though up in a shuttle and let them see it for themselves. Running, un-edited film of what they see. This would either proove or disproove the theory.


If the world is indeed a ball, I can't imagine the government caring what the members of the Flat Earth Society think.

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2) HOW exactly is the government protecting this alleged ice wall that surrounds us? Supposedly this wall would be huge!! How is it possible they can protect every inch of it from someone getting to it?


Another overasked question.  Why do they have to protect every inch of it?  It's not like if somebody touches it the world will explode or something.

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travelling due south would proove or disproove the theory.


No it wouldn't, since the ice wall looks an awful lot like Antarctica.

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I heard that the FE people believe that there is no gravity, but we are travelling up. ... Also, what direction are we travelling in.


........... up?

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Surely travel in one direction cannot not continue for an infinate amount of time.


Just wait.  The universe hasn't been around for an infinite amount of time yet.
Why did the chicken cross the Mbius strip?

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2006, 09:47:37 PM »
Dr Quak Wrote:

seriously who cares if some people think the earth is flat? as long as the people building satellites, people who are navigating oceans, pilots, etc all know its round who cares if some people think its flat?


I care because the Flat Earthers will miscalculate and sent burning satellite shrapnel hurling down in my back yard...

?

Erasmus

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Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2006, 09:53:52 PM »
Quote from: "FungusMcUncle"
I care because the Flat Earthers will miscalculate and sent burning satellite shrapnel hurling down in my back yard...


Yes, that's something you ought to worry about.  Because Flat Earthers are definitely on NASA's "to be hired at the earliest possible conveniece" list.

Oh, and, because NASA needs help miscalculating and sending burning shrapnel hurling to the ground.
Why did the chicken cross the Mbius strip?

Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2006, 06:09:57 AM »
really? I should be worried? Do astronauts throw turds at us? Do the turds flame up upon re-entry?

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2006, 07:56:47 PM »
Erasmus. I can't believe you are actually a moderator on this forum. No wonder not many people take it seriously. Here I was trying to put forward an equal levelled argument to get an unbiased opinion, and all you do is make lame comments on my questions that don't even attempt to answer them... Wake up sunshine.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
What is with people who say they want proof, but not "mathematical jargon"?  What's wrong with mathematical jargon?  How else do you prove anything?

I would have thought this was obvious. The public (like me) do not have the mathematical comprehension of some scientists etc. Therefore, it would be pointless proving by mathematical jargon as I would have no idea if you are full of BS or not. To me, proof is being there, not a mathematical equasion that guesses the fact.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
Unless you're talking strictly about mathematical jargon -- which cannot be proven by photo or personal encounter -- you are asking the impossible.

Why is this so impossible. The RE's have produced non-mathematical proof that the world is round by means of photos and personal encounters. Why can't the FE's do the same?

Quote from: "Erasmus"
If the world is indeed a ball, I can't imagine the government caring what the members of the Flat Earth Society think.
True. They probably don't.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
Another overasked question.  Why do they have to protect every inch of it?  It's not like if somebody touches it the world will explode or something.

There is no such things as an over asked question, just an under answered one. If this has been asked too often, you obviously haven't answered it yet to the satisfaction required to prevent people asking it again. That's just common sence. I thought my question was rather obvious. If there is an inch of the wall that is not protected, someone would be able to access the wall and proove the flatness of the earth. I mean, isn't this the entire basis that the flat earth is based upon? The fact that no-one can prove it because the government prevents them from getting to the wall. The point I'm making is my doubt that the government could entirely protect the wall.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
No it wouldn't, since the ice wall looks an awful lot like Antarctica.

I thought you guys were supposed to be smart?!? If the world is flat, I would continue to the Ice Wall. If I then continue south, I will hit the ice wall and cannot go any further, or, if I am above the wall, I will get to the edge of the earth and reach outer space. If the world is a globe, instead of hitting outer space, I will pass over the top of antarctica and then move around the other side of the globe, never reaching outer space. This is basic, basic, basic logic.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
........... up?
Yes, up. As in the opposite of down. In this contect I guess it would be best to say that in leiu of gravity, you believe we are moving in the oppoiste direction to downward force against the surface of the earth.

?

Erasmus

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Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2006, 01:21:02 AM »
Quote from: "jiffy"
To me, proof is being there, not a mathematical equasion that guesses the fact.


You pretty severly misunderstand what mathematics is doing.  There's no guesswork.  There's deduction; that's all.

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Why is this so impossible. The RE's have produced non-mathematical proof that the world is round by means of photos and personal encounters.


Photos aren't the same as "being there", as you say above is what you believe a proof is.  What sort of "personal encounters" prove the Earth to be round?  Also, how can you share these encounters with others, to prove it to them as well?

Mathematics provides a formal, unambiguous language for describing experiences; that's what it's for, not for guessing results with equations, whatever that means,

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There is no such things as an over asked question, just an under answered one. If this has been asked too often, you obviously haven't answered it yet to the satisfaction required to prevent people asking it again. That's just common sence.


Thanks for demonstrating the futility of common sense.

It's overasked because people who've never heard the answer keep showing up and asking, and we keep giving the answer.  The answer is, they don't need to protect the ice wall to the degree you think they do.

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If there is an inch of the wall that is not protected, someone would be able to access the wall and proove the flatness of the earth.


How would having access to an inch of the ice wall allow somebody to prove that the world is flat?

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The point I'm making is my doubt that the government could entirely protect the wall.


It's been discussed, quite recently, in another thread.  We determined that a few hundred men could do it with laudable effectiveness.

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Quote from: "Erasmus"
........... up?
Yes, up. As in the opposite of down. In this contect I guess it would be best to say that in leiu of gravity, you believe we are moving in the oppoiste direction to downward force against the surface of the earth.


Yeah yeah.  That was me wondering what was going through your head when you said, "I heard FEers say we are travelling up... so, what direction are we travelling in?"
Why did the chicken cross the Mbius strip?

Re: Questions for Both FE and RE
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2006, 05:53:41 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
You pretty severly misunderstand what mathematics is doing.  There's no guesswork.  There's deduction; that's all.
Do not presume to know how much I can comprehend. I admitted to not being as smart as some scientist. I don't not say how much I do comprehend. Estimations are still guesswork. Mathematical equations are all estimations becuase they produce the truth based on deducting falsities, as you said. These truths and falsities are based on principles that we have been taught. These principles are passed on to us from people before us that base them on principles they discover in the environment they live. Suffice to say, if the world is not what we think, as you say, it is fair to admit that it's entirely possible that the entire foundation of our mathematics has questionable accuracy. With the availability of physical evidence, one could confirm or deny the mathematical proof, but until then, it's just numbers on a page based on chinese whispers of people from centuries ago.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
Photos aren't the same as "being there", as you say above is what you believe a proof is.  What sort of "personal encounters" prove the Earth to be round?  Also, how can you share these encounters with others, to prove it to them as well?
Photos are the closest thing to being there. At this point in time, the average person cannot travel to outer space and see it for themselves, but it's not that far away. And when they can, this society will fall to shit. In the meantime, we have been provided with countless photos of the earth in it's round form. To date, not one single photo, true or not, has been provided of a flat earth. Not one!! You can argue that the RE photos are false, but atleast they have got that far. I can't even find a decent diagram of the FE, let alone a photo. As to personal experience, yes, everytime I get in a plane. Not to mention the many testimonials from people that have logged on here. Every time I use a two way radio I notice this and every time I look at the stars. I have been given principles that proove the earth is round, but no one yet has been able to proove otherwise with anything other than theories. Screw theory, show me a photo.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
Thanks for demonstrating the futility of common sense.
It's overasked because people who've never heard the answer keep showing up and asking, and we keep giving the answer.  The answer is, they don't need to protect the ice wall to the degree you think they do.
Good point. Common sence tells me that you guys are fucking stupid, it's stupidity that keeps me here. If the question is so often asked, you need to put your answer in a more prominant position for people to find. Don't pass the blame. Blame your website administrators for not putting such an "Obvious Answer" in an obvious place. (that is, obvious to new comers, not obvious to regular visitors)

Quote from: "Erasmus"
How would having access to an inch of the ice wall allow somebody to prove that the world is flat?
I never said you could prove it by gaining access to an inch, I said that they could not protect every inch. One may or may not be able to proove it with just an
inch, I don't know. I'm not a scientist.

Quote from: "Erasmus"
Yeah yeah.  That was me wondering what was going through your head when you said, "I heard FEers say we are travelling up... so, what direction are we travelling in?"
You tell me. I'm a RE, it's a FE theory.