antartica

Yes, the Flat Earth theory does not have to include the turtle and elephants. Quite on the contrary. We are not gullible enough to believe some religious, crackpot theory like that. we are men of science, who have been seen the government scam unveiled, and stive to make the truth about Earth known.

what keeps the air on the flat earth?  Don't you think it would just spill over the sides

tbh FE or RE, broadly which ever you beleive it most likely isn't due to science and is perhaps more to do with gullibility. however if one significantly feared he was wrong there are several experiments you could do that aren't too expensive. Some have been discribed on this forum, for example measuring the length of a shadow at the (equinox i beleive?)

there is also the free hanging pendulum - however that requires you to go to both south and north of the equator.

Then you could simply get a cheap laser, access to a large placid water body (like a canal), put the laser x inches above the water level and see over distance if the level of the laser what happens to the level of the laser beam.


or of course you could just join the Nasa space program and see if it is a big cover up =)

what keeps the air on the flat earth?  Don't you think it would just spill over the sides

The 40000ft ice wall which encircles the Earth at the so-called "South Pole".

So the atmosphere only extends 40000 ft from the surface of the earth?

So the atmosphere only extends 40000 ft from the surface of the earth?

That's right. I mean, it might sort of heap up a bit in the middle but 40000ft is about its average height.

Then how come I can breath when I fly in a plane? I've flowing in single engine planes with the window open, and I was much higher up than 40000 feet.

Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.
The presence of penguins around the ice wall is actually a clever means of providing a reliable food source for conspiracy staff stationed there.

WHAT? Penguin fossils were discovered in Australia, South America, South Africa and Antarctica in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Sailors discovered penguins in the 15th century. Many expeditions were made to Antarctica prior to the 1900s and they all, no doubt, ran into penguins.
History of Penguins
Notes  on a 1903 expedition to Antarctica, featuring PENGUINS.
A history of Antarctica, also mentioning penguins in 1903

Then how come I can breath when I fly in a plane? I've flowing in single engine planes with the window open, and I was much higher up than 40000 feet.

Like I said, it heaps up the closer to the middle it gets. I bet you haven't flown open-windowed planes within 500 or so miles of the "south pole", right?

WHAT? Penguin fossils were discovered in Australia, South America, South Africa and Antarctica in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Sailors discovered penguins in the 15th century. Many expeditions were made to Antarctica prior to the 1900s and they all, no doubt, ran into penguins.
History of Penguins
Notes  on a 1903 expedition to Antarctica, featuring PENGUINS.
A history of Antarctica, also mentioning penguins in 1903

Oh sure, "Sailors" discovered "penguins" in the "15th century". How can we possibly confirm this? The British Natural History Museum is run by the British government, and C.A. Larsen could easily be a made up figure designed to confirm the existence of penguins before 1960.

But then you could say that about everything that has ever existed. Are you skeptical about everything you've ever heard? Are you one of those people that believes the Holocaust was made up? If you can't believe information like this, you might as well throw out every piece of information ever acquired and chalk it up to a conspiracy theory of some kind. Have you ever visited China? Well maybe it doesn't exist just because you haven't been there.

But then you could say that about everything that has ever existed. Are you skeptical about everything you've ever heard? Are you one of those people that believes the Holocaust was made up? If you can't believe information like this, you might as well throw out every piece of information ever acquired and chalk it up to a conspiracy theory of some kind. Have you ever visited China? Well maybe it doesn't exist just because you haven't been there.

No, I believe that the holocaust happened. I also believe in China. Why wouldn't I? I only question items of science, history and geography which have some reason to be made up.

If there's no reliable (read: trustworthy) record of discoveries for penguin fossils to prove they weren't genetically created, then there's also none to prove they don't -- or for that matter any other animal.  This no more proves penguins were human creations as it disproves them.

How do you know that they were created (other than because it conveniently fits your theories)?

If there's no reliable (read: trustworthy) record of discoveries for penguin fossils to prove they weren't genetically created, then there's also none to prove they don't -- or for that matter any other animal.  This no more proves penguins were human creations as it disproves them.

How do you know that they were created (other than because it conveniently fits your theories)?

The fossil records of human evolution are vastly more comprehensive than those of Antarctic penguins.

Yes, I believe they were created because it fits my other theories and isn't disproved by comprehensive fossil evidence. What's wrong with that? In scientific reasoning we often assume something to be true because other things point to it or fit with it.

Quote from: "psouza4"

If there's no reliable (read: trustworthy) record of discoveries for penguin fossils to prove they weren't genetically created, then there's also none to prove they don't -- or for that matter any other animal.  This no more proves penguins were human creations as it disproves them.

How do you know that they were created (other than because it conveniently fits your theories)?

The fossil records of human evolution are vastly more comprehensive than those of Antarctic penguins.

Yes, I believe they were created because it fits my other theories and isn't disproved by comprehensive fossil evidence. What's wrong with that? In scientific reasoning we often assume something to be true because other things point to it or fit with it.

Sorry to resort to this: but that's just an absurd perspective.

You can't rationalize that because the human race, which has evolved and multiplied more than most any other animal all over the planet, has more fossils, than that of a population of arctic creatures in a barely-explored location, that it's indicative of anything other than we are far more plentiful and live in easier-to-excavate areas than they.

Also, if penguins were genetically created, wouldn't there be a conspiracy to plant more evidence supporting that they've been around for longer?

Of course that leads us to a connundrum where there's no way to prove penguins weren't created because we are "damned if we do, damned if we don't."

And to answer your question: logical induction by process of elimination is a reasonable science.  But it relies on the elimination of other possibilities, which you have not (you make very few attempts at disproving RE in your championing of FE theories).

so dog platter.....question...if i may

lets assume you are correct, and penguins were just "created 40 yrs ago in a russian lab to feed the ice wall gaurdians" (can't believe i just said that seriously...wow...just...wow...)

so ok these geneticly engineered gaurdian feeders live on a soild chuck of ice.....with no land eh?

well regaurdless of weather or not these penguins were created 45 years ago, or eons ago.....how could man have found any fossilized remains?

fossils are comprised of animal bones deposited in sediment. and through a process of calcification these bones become infused with the minerals from the surrounding soil....hence preserving the bones and encasing them in soil which becomes rock through time, heat, pressure, and other such geological proceses.....

how then could there possibly be fossilized remains of a penguin if they have existed in this polar atmosphere. they would have either been eaten by sea animals (killer whales, sharks, ect....). and any and all penguins that perish on the ice mass itself would surley be incased in ice, then as the ice sheet grows thier carcases would float out to sea in the pack ice.

either way the bones of these penguins would be deposited on the nearby ocean floor.

so which seems more plausable?

that the environment itself isn't condusive to producing fosilized remains of penguins, or even finding them if they exist....

or....

that 45 years ago scientists working for a top secret "government" project invented penguins to sustain the ice wall gaurdians....

i'm leaning twords the first one. but i'm anxiously awaiting your response to this....you seem to be the most "colorfull" member i've seen post here so far....

oh almost forgot.....what did these ice wall gaurdians eat before the advent of geneticly enginered penguins to munch on.....soylent green perhaps?

You can't rationalize that because the human race, which has evolved and multiplied more than most any other animal all over the planet, has more fossils, than that of a population of arctic creatures in a barely-explored location, that it's indicative of anything other than we are far more plentiful and live in easier-to-excavate areas than they.

I'm not talking about random human graves being dug up and examined, I'm talking about examples of Homo Ergaster, Homo Erectus and all our other evolutionary ancestors which have been found in specific locations (many of which are poorly explored). There isn't nearly such a satisfactory chain for penguins, and yet we've really just as much chance of finding a penguin missing link in some remote climb as we do a human one (or should have).

Also, if penguins were genetically created, wouldn't there be a conspiracy to plant more evidence supporting that they've been around for longer?

There is a small penguin evolution conspiracy. The British Natural History Museum invents characters like C.A. Larsen who supposedly met penguins in the 1900's, and a few bogus fossils are provided, but they really don't bother with a watertight evolutionary chain for penguins because hardly anybody cares or would suppose that penguins didn't just evolve like all other animals did.

Of course that leads us to a connundrum where there's no way to prove penguins weren't created because we are "damned if we do, damned if we don't."

How so? If you can prove that penguins weren't created, be my guest. I assure you that you won't be damned. (I don't really understand your statement here by the way, so I'm just taking it literally).

And to answer your question: logical induction by process of elimination is a reasonable science.  But it relies on the elimination of other possibilities, which you have not (you make very few attempts at disproving RE in your championing of FE theories).

That's because I'm so busy defending FE against the constant onslaught of ridicule and attempted disproving. As soon as I get the chance I'll investigate evidence which disproves RE theory.

so dog platter.....question...if i may

lets assume you are correct, and penguins were just "created 40 yrs ago in a russian lab to feed the ice wall gaurdians" (can't believe i just said that seriously...wow...just...wow...)

so ok these geneticly engineered gaurdian feeders live on a soild chuck of ice.....with no land eh?

well regaurdless of weather or not these penguins were created 45 years ago, or eons ago.....how could man have found any fossilized remains?

fossils are comprised of animal bones deposited in sediment. and through a process of calcification these bones become infused with the minerals from the surrounding soil....hence preserving the bones and encasing them in soil which becomes rock through time, heat, pressure, and other such geological proceses.....

how then could there possibly be fossilized remains of a penguin if they have existed in this polar atmosphere. they would have either been eaten by sea animals (killer whales, sharks, ect....). and any and all penguins that perish on the ice mass itself would surley be incased in ice, then as the ice sheet grows thier carcases would float out to sea in the pack ice.

either way the bones of these penguins would be deposited on the nearby ocean floor.

so which seems more plausable?

that the environment itself isn't condusive to producing fosilized remains of penguins, or even finding them if they exist....

or....

that 45 years ago scientists working for a top secret "government" project invented penguins to sustain the ice wall gaurdians....

i'm leaning twords the first one. but i'm anxiously awaiting your response to this....you seem to be the most "colorfull" member i've seen post here so far....

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment.

The conspiracy claims that penguins evolved on seperate continents as well, and either swam between them and Antarctica, or waddled across when Antarctica and "Australia, South America, South Africa" to quote VTI on some areas of "penguin origin". Why then do the fossil records from Australia, South America, South Africa, some of the most fossil-friendly areas in the world (a plethora of dinosaur fossils have been found in these areas) yield such appaulingly incomplete evidence of penguin evolution. Sure, bogus fossil here and there, but where are the missing links? What did penguins evolve from originally? They're not much like other birds, yet the conspiracy keeps telling us that they are, in fact, birds.

wow....well doesn't that differ from your opinion that penguins were invented to sustain the ice wall gaurdians?

please pick one stance or another, because i have an equally legitemate rubutal to which ever one you decide on...

and i don't want to hear what "the conspiracy theory" says....i want to hear you're definition, as you were the one who proposed the genetic manipulation of birds and otters theory....

hence the "colorfull" comment.

wow....well doesn't that differ from your opinion that penguins were invented to sustain the ice wall gaurdians?

please pick one stance or another, because i have an equally legitemate rubutal to which ever one you decide on...

and i don't want to hear what "the conspiracy theory" says....i want to hear you're definition, as you were the one who proposed the genetic manipulation of birds and otters theory....

hence the "colorfull" comment.

No, I consistently maintain that penguins were genetically engineered. In my last post, I put forward that ASSUMING they "evolved in Australia etc.," which is what was claimed by VTI, then there would be ample fossil evidence for their evolution. There is not, which means either they did not evolve in all these places, or they did not evolve at all.

Everyone does realize that there are also penguins living in south america, another support for the Pangaea thoery, as they evolved from a common ancestor.  This also proves that they were not "created" in the sixties, as they are part of customs in south america (at least that area), and there would be no point in creating south american penguins, unless the scientists are smart enough to foresee this exact conversation.  And if that were possible, why not go and kill your ancestors, to stop your foul influence in breaking the "conspiracy"

ok fine...both then

first i'll deal with the "evolutionary problem"

just as with marine iguannas and giant tortises, a specific species that has been land locked (stranded somewhere and isolated from it's lineage) can develop to best suit it's environment.

so assuming there is many "ancestors" of penguins these penguins would have found thier way to antartica (probably on floatsom of fallen trees carried by the currents) they would have no way to return. once whatever means of thier arival was no longer available the species would then begin to evolve to suit thier new environment. the process of natural selection would surely take hold and begin to select the most suited traits to survive in such an inhospitable environment.

any and all remains of said evolution would have met the same fate as i described above (carried out to sea by either predators, or sea ice) and therfore have been deposited at the bottom of the surrounding sea.

now onto you're theory.....

if this were the case (penguins being developed in a lab) then how could the ice wall gaurdians have survived so long without this geneticly engineered food source.

also why not just invent some sort of fishing robot, or a plant which could produce food in a cold environment? why go through the lengthy process of developing a mamal....as this was surly a much more difficult and therefore un-necessary step, in this massive cover up.

i mean why go to such lenghts to "invent" and entirly new species of animal, just to provide food, when other means seem so much more efficient and easy to acomplish?

almost forgot this as well....hope you catch it.....

also how do you explain the many species of non artic penguins which exist in other parts of the southern hemisphere. were thoes also created in a lab? and if so, for what purpose?

if any other FE's decide to jump in here i'd appreciate it....it appears mr dogplatter (must be from korea) has gone to bed for the evening. it's probably rather late there by now.

well tbh it isn't that hard to breed an animal to certain conditions, we've been doing it for centuries wiht dogs, cats, cows, pigs, sheep, horses, etc

no no....thats not what he said.....he specificly said that russian scientist geneticly engineered them from otters and birds, back in the 60's. i'm beggining to belive that wasn't the only thing going on back in the 60's. wonder what kind of spider webs dogplatter would have spun back then?

Yes, I believe they were created because it fits my other theories and isn't disproved by comprehensive fossil evidence. What's wrong with that? In scientific reasoning we often assume something to be true because other things point to it or fit with it.

so when you find inconsistencies in your theory you just make shit up and proclaim it to be the truth? That's not scientific reasoning, it's insanity.

well drquack....because my new frined almond boneless chicken has had his tea and crumpets and tucked himself in for the night....mabey you can respond to the idea that finding penguin fossils would be inherently difficult due to the frozen environment. you seem like another FE'er so i'd love for someone to attempt to debate me.

Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.
The presence of penguins around the ice wall is actually a clever means of providing a reliable food source for conspiracy staff stationed there.

Penguins were deliberately engineered to be very easy to catch (hence their lack of flight), but also to be extremely efficient at catching and eating fish. It is economically easier for conspiracy ice-wall guards to have penguins indirectly harvest fish for them, then shoot or trap the fish-filled penguins with ease.

In answer to your other question - yes, March of the Penguins was filmed in a studio. Those penguins were probably animatronic replicas though, because the government can't afford to use large numbers of penguins except for feeding ice-wall guards.

You're such an idiot.  I nearly fell out of my chair after reading that.

you gotta give the dude props for imagination.....

i mean seriously bro....where do you get your weed

"from you donte"

oh hey mr chibles whats up!!!

first i'll deal with the "evolutionary problem"

just as with marine iguannas and giant tortises, a specific species that has been land locked (stranded somewhere and isolated from it's lineage) can develop to best suit it's environment.

so assuming there is many "ancestors" of penguins these penguins would have found thier way to antartica (probably on floatsom of fallen trees carried by the currents) they would have no way to return. once whatever means of thier arival was no longer available the species would then begin to evolve to suit thier new environment. the process of natural selection would surely take hold and begin to select the most suited traits to survive in such an inhospitable environment.

any and all remains of said evolution would have met the same fate as i described above (carried out to sea by either predators, or sea ice) and therfore have been deposited at the bottom of the surrounding sea.

Ok, you've managed to account for the lack of fossil evidence in Antarctica specifically (entirely through speculation, but your argument is plausible), but why is the lineage of penguin ancestors (penguins from South America/Australia or wherever so sparse? These areas are idea for producing fossils.

if this were the case (penguins being developed in a lab) then how could the ice wall gaurdians have survived so long without this geneticly engineered food source.

They probably fished, but as I said, this would have been less efficient than having a secondary consumer catch the fish and then be caught itself, especially a consumer designed for this purpose.

also why not just invent some sort of fishing robot, or a plant which could produce food in a cold environment? why go through the lengthy process of developing a mamal....as this was surly a much more difficult and therefore un-necessary step, in this massive cover up.

Fishing robot? That's pretty absurd. Computer technology today isn't really even up to creating an AI powerful enough to catch fish and return them safely to land as ready-to-eat blubber. Even if it just about was, it would be incredibly expensive compared with gene-splicing to create penguins. As for plants which produce food in a cold environment, that seems a little far-fetched too. How could members of the military carry out their duties in a freezing climate on an exclusive diet of plants?

i mean why go to such lenghts to "invent" and entirly new species of animal, just to provide food, when other means seem so much more efficient and easy to acomplish?

Fishing robots and super-plants? Much easier  :roll:

almost forgot this as well....hope you catch it.....

also how do you explain the many species of non artic penguins which exist in other parts of the southern hemisphere. were thoes also created in a lab? and if so, for what purpose?

To make people believe that penguins evolved there and either travelled across "Pangea" or floated to Antarctica on fallen trees, whichever one most strikes your fancy. They didn't bother to forumlate satisfactory fossil records for penguins though, even in South America/Australia etc.

dude, I tried explaining fossils to them, and lava and tornados. Fossils were really created by tribal craftsmen east of gambia to trade on the international market, antique dealers caught on and the rest was history.
Penguins? This is no place for fairy tales!

Quote from: "god"

first i'll deal with the "evolutionary problem"

just as with marine iguannas and giant tortises, a specific species that has been land locked (stranded somewhere and isolated from it's lineage) can develop to best suit it's environment.

so assuming there is many "ancestors" of penguins these penguins would have found thier way to antartica (probably on floatsom of fallen trees carried by the currents) they would have no way to return. once whatever means of thier arival was no longer available the species would then begin to evolve to suit thier new environment. the process of natural selection would surely take hold and begin to select the most suited traits to survive in such an inhospitable environment.

any and all remains of said evolution would have met the same fate as i described above (carried out to sea by either predators, or sea ice) and therfore have been deposited at the bottom of the surrounding sea.

Ok, you've managed to account for the lack of fossil evidence in Antarctica specifically (entirely through speculation, but your argument is plausible), but why is the lineage of penguin ancestors (penguins from South America/Australia or wherever so sparse? These areas are idea for producing fossils.

Quote from: "god"

if this were the case (penguins being developed in a lab) then how could the ice wall gaurdians have survived so long without this geneticly engineered food source.

They probably fished, but as I said, this would have been less efficient than having a secondary consumer catch the fish and then be caught itself, especially a consumer designed for this purpose.

Quote from: "god"

also why not just invent some sort of fishing robot, or a plant which could produce food in a cold environment? why go through the lengthy process of developing a mamal....as this was surly a much more difficult and therefore un-necessary step, in this massive cover up.

Fishing robot? That's pretty absurd. Computer technology today isn't really even up to creating an AI powerful enough to catch fish and return them safely to land as ready-to-eat blubber. Even if it just about was, it would be incredibly expensive compared with gene-splicing to create penguins. As for plants which produce food in a cold environment, that seems a little far-fetched too. How could members of the military carry out their duties in a freezing climate on an exclusive diet of plants?

Quote from: "god"

i mean why go to such lenghts to "invent" and entirly new species of animal, just to provide food, when other means seem so much more efficient and easy to acomplish?

Fishing robots and super-plants? Much easier  :roll:

Quote from: "god"

almost forgot this as well....hope you catch it.....

also how do you explain the many species of non artic penguins which exist in other parts of the southern hemisphere. were thoes also created in a lab? and if so, for what purpose?

To make people believe that penguins evolved there and either travelled across "Pangea" or floated to Antarctica on fallen trees, whichever one most strikes your fancy. They didn't bother to forumlate satisfactory fossil records for penguins though, even in South America/Australia etc.

wow...ok so fishing robots are more absurd than geneticly engineered penguins....reallllllllyyyyyy

we don't have penguin fossils just as we don't have fossils of eyeballs.

the probability of fossilized remains of an artic semi-aquatic species is astronomical. as i stated above. also as with any aquatic/marine mammal you are going to have a hard time finding fossilized remains on land, because they most likely die in the water. they return to land for saftey. thats the one place you won't find dead ones.

so untill we enter another ice age, and the planets water is locked up in polar (or wall...lol) ice then these fossils will remain underwater. as you probably know, the only time we find fossils of sea/ocean fishes is on dried up lake/sea beds, and land that had at one point been under water for great lengths of time. at our curent state we are at about a 1/2 way mark. during an ice age we'd see much more land mass, and during a warm period we'd all be clinging to k-2 to stay dry.