A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?

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cmdshft

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2009, 03:53:57 PM »
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says we can not know when this happens, it does not mean that it won't happen or how likely it is to happen. Please read my post and educate yourself on what you are talking about.

Wrong. It says we cannot know both the velocity and location at the same moment, only one or the other. Had you actually understood the principle, you would have known this. Thus, we cannot know what shape an electrons orbit will be. It may not ever even be an orbit at all.

But please, go on. Your knowledge on physics and chemistry is astounding, just like your amazing insight into the tachyon thread. ::)

Hara, orbitals are not orbits. Orbitals are simply areas that are most likely to contain an electron at any given time, and they are known.

You're right, I misread that post. I concede that one, then, but I was still right if you ignore the mixup.

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Anteater7171

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2009, 12:06:17 AM »
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.

Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2009, 12:10:15 AM »
At least we can be sure that one thing is infinitely small.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=27691.0
I laughed pretty hard when I saw that.  Also, I'm glad the pictures were gone by the time I viewed it......

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2009, 04:37:55 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2009, 06:06:52 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

Technically there are fixed areas where the probability they will be is high. Practically it means the same thing but there is a difference.

Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2009, 07:11:35 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

Technically there are fixed areas where the probability they will be is high. Practically it means the same thing but there is a difference.
are you counting s p and d orbitals? because if you were you forgot a few levels
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2009, 08:10:50 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

Technically there are fixed areas where the probability they will be is high. Practically it means the same thing but there is a difference.
are you counting s p and d orbitals? because if you were you forgot a few levels

No, he was talking about how many electrons can fit in a single level. It can go up forever.

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cmdshft

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2009, 09:13:39 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

Technically there are fixed areas where the probability they will be is high. Practically it means the same thing but there is a difference.
are you counting s p and d orbitals? because if you were you forgot a few levels

No, he was talking about how many electrons can fit in a single level. It can go up forever.

We don't know that, and I'm sure you're aware that an atoms covalence sharing is dependent on the highest electron shell level and the number of electrons in that shell level.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2009, 09:30:19 PM »
So atoms are extremely small. Electrons travel around the nucleus. It is kind of like a solar system except at an extremely small level.

There are set rules about where electrons can be in the "electron shell", ie electrons must fill according to 2,8,18 and so on.

Electrons are also of a fixed mass.

Planets can be of any mass, and can orbit another mass at any point.

Nice idea though. Oh well.

Technically there are fixed areas where the probability they will be is high. Practically it means the same thing but there is a difference.
are you counting s p and d orbitals? because if you were you forgot a few levels

No, he was talking about how many electrons can fit in a single level. It can go up forever.

We don't know that, and I'm sure you're aware that an atoms covalence sharing is dependent on the highest electron shell level and the number of electrons in that shell level.

Yes, and the outside has at most eight. But the inner layers constantly add more as you get higher in the periodic table. The pattern would continue to constantly add electrons to inner shells.

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cmdshft

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2009, 10:07:13 PM »
Actually, no. As the periodic table increases, so will the number of levels in the electron shell. You cannot add more electrons to a full electron shell level. Only add new levels beyond the previous highest.

Right now, Ununoctium has all it's electron shell levels filled. If element 119 or higher is discovered, then another electron shell level must be added after shell level 7, since Uuo has it's shells filled to the max at all known levels.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2009, 11:16:36 PM »
Actually, no. As the periodic table increases, so will the number of levels in the electron shell. You cannot add more electrons to a full electron shell level. Only add new levels beyond the previous highest.

Right now, Ununoctium has all it's electron shell levels filled. If element 119 or higher is discovered, then another electron shell level must be added after shell level 7, since Uuo has it's shells filled to the max at all known levels.

That only applies to the valence electrons. Once you get a new valence shell you can add new ones to the inner ones. That is how some elements have 18 electrons in a shell.

Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2009, 08:34:23 AM »
Raist is right the d orbital is not filled until the s of the next level is filled
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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cmdshft

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2009, 06:28:08 PM »
Actually, no. As the periodic table increases, so will the number of levels in the electron shell. You cannot add more electrons to a full electron shell level. Only add new levels beyond the previous highest.

Right now, Ununoctium has all it's electron shell levels filled. If element 119 or higher is discovered, then another electron shell level must be added after shell level 7, since Uuo has it's shells filled to the max at all known levels.

That only applies to the valence electrons. Once you get a new valence shell you can add new ones to the inner ones. That is how some elements have 18 electrons in a shell.

Right, but what I am saying is while there are 32 electrons in some element's electron shell levels, since Uuo is number 118, it's got all the known levels filled to all know maximums. We'll know whether or not the theory is right once 119 or higher is discovered (if it's possible at all), as it will have to have more than than what Uuo has, with Uuo being maxed out. Get my point? I'm not saying you're wrong at all, just that we wont know for sure until an element from group 8 is discovered.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2009, 10:54:52 PM »
Actually, no. As the periodic table increases, so will the number of levels in the electron shell. You cannot add more electrons to a full electron shell level. Only add new levels beyond the previous highest.

Right now, Ununoctium has all it's electron shell levels filled. If element 119 or higher is discovered, then another electron shell level must be added after shell level 7, since Uuo has it's shells filled to the max at all known levels.

That only applies to the valence electrons. Once you get a new valence shell you can add new ones to the inner ones. That is how some elements have 18 electrons in a shell.

Right, but what I am saying is while there are 32 electrons in some element's electron shell levels, since Uuo is number 118, it's got all the known levels filled to all know maximums. We'll know whether or not the theory is right once 119 or higher is discovered (if it's possible at all), as it will have to have more than than what Uuo has, with Uuo being maxed out. Get my point? I'm not saying you're wrong at all, just that we wont know for sure until an element from group 8 is discovered.

And it was predicted long before It was ever discovered. It's electron placement was known long before anyone found it.

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cmdshft

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2009, 06:38:44 AM »
So what do you think will happen with period 8?

Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2009, 05:03:21 PM »
9s 2 electrons followed by 5w 18 electrons? if I remember then 6f 14 electrons 7d 10 electrons then 8 p 6 electrons

(my format may be wrong I haven't done this since high school.) this will be the order in which the shells will be filled.
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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Raist

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Re: A random idea I had about things. Infinitely small?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2009, 11:09:39 AM »
So what do you think will happen with period 8?

If I had my high school notebook I'd tell you. We had to write out the full electron configuration clear up through 8 or 9. And we couldn't use the short notation.