The Big Bang

Quote from: KingMan on February 25, 2009, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: Wendy on February 25, 2009, 11:29:46 AM

So, what do I have to do to be a christian?

Believe the Bible is Gods word, Jesus was his son, he died on a cross, rose 3 days later, ascended to heaven, and you must accept Christ as your savior. So ae you still Christian?

To be a Christian, do you have to believe the Bible in a literal sense?

No, you just have to be retarded.

Quote from: Mykael on February 25, 2009, 03:58:27 PM

Quote from: KingMan on February 25, 2009, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: Wendy on February 25, 2009, 11:29:46 AM

So, what do I have to do to be a christian?

Believe the Bible is Gods word, Jesus was his son, he died on a cross, rose 3 days later, ascended to heaven, and you must accept Christ as your savior. So ae you still Christian?

To be a Christian, do you have to believe the Bible in a literal sense?

No, you just have to be retarded.

Win.

Believe the Bible is Gods word, Jesus was his son, he died on a cross, rose 3 days later, ascended to heaven, and you must accept Christ as your savior.

I'm confused by that list. Does that mean that someone cannot for example get salvation if they haven't heard of the Bible but someone told them the rest of the theology? Also what does it mean by believing that the Bible is the word of God? There are so many disagreements on which books are in the Bible (most Protestants don't agree with most Catholics,  and then there are others like the Mormons who have their own books they add). Also, why does Jesus's manner of death matter? How does the fact that it was on a cross and not by any other method modify the salvational power of that action? Similarly, why is the number of days between his death and ascenion relevant?

Finally, last question: Suppose I took a copy of the Bible (one you consider the Bible) and I replaced every time it said "Jesus" with some other name (say Gollum). If someone read that text and then decided to accept Gollum as their personal lord and savior would they be a Christian who would get to go to heaven?

Also there is the fact the matter was super compressed and without gravity to hold it together why would it not "explode"

Apparently you don't understand the Big Bang theory any better than KingMan does.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 25, 2009, 05:09:34 PM

Also there is the fact the matter was super compressed and without gravity to hold it together why would it not "explode"

Apparently you don't understand the Big Bang theory any better than KingMan does.

What is wrong with that question?

Quote from: Robosteve on February 26, 2009, 02:00:57 AM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 25, 2009, 05:09:34 PM

Also there is the fact the matter was super compressed and without gravity to hold it together why would it not "explode"

Apparently you don't understand the Big Bang theory any better than KingMan does.

What is wrong with that question?

when something explodes it takes a bigger volume. that requires some empty space. there wasn't a lot of empty space "before" big bang so an explosion wasn't possible

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 08:52:01 AM

Quote from: Robosteve on February 26, 2009, 02:00:57 AM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 25, 2009, 05:09:34 PM

Also there is the fact the matter was super compressed and without gravity to hold it together why would it not "explode"

Apparently you don't understand the Big Bang theory any better than KingMan does.

What is wrong with that question?

when something explodes it takes a bigger volume. that requires some empty space. there wasn't a lot of empty space "before" big bang so an explosion wasn't possible

I know that I was wondering if the pressure from the singularity could expand space-time I know that doesn't happen now but I thought with that extreme amount of pressure And no gravity to stop it form happening if that could expand space-time. I don't know what it takes to make space expand so forgive this stupid question

I know that I was wondering if the pressure from the singularity could expand space-time I know that doesn't happen now but I thought with that extreme amount of pressure And no gravity to stop it form happening if that could expand space-time. I don't know what it takes to make space expand so forgive this stupid question

Pressure is defined as force per unit area. Forces act on mass-energy, not space.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 10:05:40 AM

I know that I was wondering if the pressure from the singularity could expand space-time I know that doesn't happen now but I thought with that extreme amount of pressure And no gravity to stop it form happening if that could expand space-time. I don't know what it takes to make space expand so forgive this stupid question

Pressure is defined as force per unit area. Forces act on mass-energy, not space.

But if space was curved that much at that point then the particle force on each other a portion of that force would be 90 degrees from reality so if a particle is pushed 90 degrees from reality it could stretch space right?

Well the Big Bang itself may be plausible but other connected ideas aren't
Like the assertion that the singularity was always there before the Big Bang. THat would imply time to be infinite.
Every division of infinity is infinity, so if time was infinite, every period of time would be infinite. [..] What does that sound like?

Sorry to say that, but it sounds like your grasp on the concept of infinity is lacking a bit. Let's take the set of all numbers. According to your logic, any subset of numbers would have to contain an infinite amount of numbers. So all I will say is: {1}

I would just like to say this, because the first time I thought of it, I thought it was funny, and true.

The Big Bang - Moar Liek The Big Suck, Amirite?

Quote from: KingMan on February 25, 2009, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: Wendy on February 25, 2009, 11:29:46 AM

So, what do I have to do to be a christian?

Believe the Bible is Gods word, Jesus was his son, he died on a cross, rose 3 days later, ascended to heaven, and you must accept Christ as your savior. So ae you still Christian?

To be a Christian, do you have to believe the Bible in a literal sense?

Of course not. The entire book of Revelation is a prophecy and it would be stupid to take that literally. I actually stopped reading The Left Behind series because of how literally they took the prophecies, and it became dumb. As to what you do interpret or take literally in the Bible is up to the reader i suppose.

So then you admit that the bible is not the word of God? Because if it was, he wouldn't throw in a load of bullshit just for kicks.

So then you admit that the bible is not the word of God? Because if it was, he wouldn't throw in a load of bullshit just for kicks.

It is the word of God, but that doesn't mean it is always very clear in it's meaning.

So you're basically going with the "God works in mysterious ways" approach. In that case, riddle me this: What is the point? God is mysterious, which means you'll never find the answers in him. Why not just search for them yourself?

So you're basically going with the "God works in mysterious ways" approach. In that case, riddle me this: What is the point? God is mysterious, which means you'll never find the answers in him. Why not just search for them yourself?

Why do you think I don't?

Because you use the "God did it" argument on everything.

But if space was curved that much at that point then the particle force on each other a portion of that force would be 90 degrees from reality so if a particle is pushed 90 degrees from reality it could stretch space right?

First of all, you're not making any sense. Second of all, particles probably did not begin to form until some fraction of a second after the Big Bang itself.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 10:20:18 AM

But if space was curved that much at that point then the particle force on each other a portion of that force would be 90 degrees from reality so if a particle is pushed 90 degrees from reality it could stretch space right?

First of all, you're not making any sense. Second of all, particles probably did not begin to form until some fraction of a second after the Big Bang itself.

Okay lets look at a second dimension representation. now if it is flat and you have equal and opposite forces acting upon a particle. space would not affected. However if that was in a shape of a ball. now if we had two forces acting upon it that were equal but opposite to each other there would be a component of the forces facing away from the center of the sphere.

Okay lets look at a second dimension representation. now if it is flat and you have equal and opposite forces acting upon a particle. space would not affected. However if that was in a shape of a ball. now if we had two forces acting upon it that were equal but opposite to each other there would be a component of the forces facing away from the center of the sphere.

Forces are an attribute of the Universe. You can't apply the concept of a force from an outsider's perspective. All field lines would curve along with spacetime, not simply go outside of it.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 04:48:47 PM

Okay lets look at a second dimension representation. now if it is flat and you have equal and opposite forces acting upon a particle. space would not affected. However if that was in a shape of a ball. now if we had two forces acting upon it that were equal but opposite to each other there would be a component of the forces facing away from the center of the sphere.

Forces are an attribute of the Universe. You can't apply the concept of a force from an outsider's perspective. All field lines would curve along with spacetime, not simply go outside of it.

Okay I am not trying to be insulting but how sure of this are you and do you have the education to back up that certainty.

Okay I am not trying to be insulting but how sure of this are you and do you have the education to back up that certainty.

I am completely sure of this, and if noticing that massive objects possessing magnetic fields are not pushed outside the Universe by other magnetic fields counts as education, then yes I do.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 05:49:27 PM

Okay I am not trying to be insulting but how sure of this are you and do you have the education to back up that certainty.

I am completely sure of this, and if noticing that massive objects possessing magnetic fields are not pushed outside the Universe by other magnetic fields counts as education, then yes I do.

Based on the size of the universe it would be pretty much flat for any interaction of particles so they would push directly on each other and would have no noticeable component that would push them out. Second I said it would push the universe out with the matter so you wouldn't notice the an interaction that did happen.

You can't push anything out of the universe.

If you did it would no longer exist.

You can't push anything out of the universe.

If you did it would no longer exist.

I never said you would push something out of the universe I said I wondered if that would push out the boundaries of the universe and the matter together.

Based on the size of the universe it would be pretty much flat for any interaction of particles so they would push directly on each other and would have no noticeable component that would push them out. Second I said it would push the universe out with the matter so you wouldn't notice the an interaction that did happen.

So why don't atoms turn into black holes?

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 26, 2009, 06:07:45 PM

Based on the size of the universe it would be pretty much flat for any interaction of particles so they would push directly on each other and would have no noticeable component that would push them out. Second I said it would push the universe out with the matter so you wouldn't notice the an interaction that did happen.

So why don't atoms turn into black holes?

Because It would not get rid of that space just stretch it a little. Gravity stretches space but everything with gravity does not create black holes.

Because It would not get rid of that space just stretch it a little. Gravity stretches space but everything with gravity does not create black holes.

...

Let's ask that a different way:

Why would the gravitational well created by the nucleus of the atom not be deepened as the positively charged nucleus was pushed out of the Universe (dragging space along with it) by the negatively charged electron(s)?

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 27, 2009, 07:16:51 PM

Because It would not get rid of that space just stretch it a little. Gravity stretches space but everything with gravity does not create black holes.

...

+1

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 27, 2009, 07:16:51 PM

Because It would not get rid of that space just stretch it a little. Gravity stretches space but everything with gravity does not create black holes.

...

Let's ask that a different way:

Why would the gravitational well created by the nucleus of the atom not be deepened as the positively charged nucleus was pushed out of the Universe (dragging space along with it) by the negatively charged electron(s)?

Because Space is so big at this point that any small portion of space can be considered not curved. therefore the force would be pushing everything  straight on and would not be pushing it at big enough to have an noticeable effect. The only time this affect would have been noticeable was when space was extremely curved like when the universe was small. You would notice the curve of a small ball more then you would notice the curve of a planet. Also the force of the negatively charged electrons wouldn't effect it that much because it is such a weak force compared to the forces that acted on in the middle of the big bang