Poll

Could the use of c-sections, episiotomies and instrumental deliveries lead to an inability for a natural delivery in the future?

No.
6 (24%)
Possibly but it's unlikely.
4 (16%)
Possibly but I doubt it.
3 (12%)
Possibly, I'm not sure of the probability.
7 (28%)
I think it's likely.
0 (0%)
I think it'll definitely happen.
0 (0%)
I don't know but it'd be cool if it did..
1 (4%)
I don't know but it'd be bad if it did.
0 (0%)
I don't understand the question.
3 (12%)
Natural selection is not the cause of evolution, supernatural selection is.
1 (4%)

Total Members Voted: 25

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A few selective pressures removed

  • 36 Replies
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midgard

  • 1300
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2009, 03:15:26 PM »
Quote from: Pongo on March 09, 2009, 10:43:36 AM
Aye, disadvantageous to the population, advantageous to me!  I don't want no babies... yet.

Too late for me :D
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theonlydann

  • Official Member
  • 24186
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2009, 03:50:40 PM »
Quote from: midgard on March 09, 2009, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: Pongo on March 09, 2009, 10:43:36 AM
Aye, disadvantageous to the population, advantageous to me!  I don't want no babies... yet.

Too late for me :D
Kill it with fire?
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midgard

  • 1300
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2009, 03:48:48 AM »
Unfortunately, I like it too much to harm it or want harm done to it.  :-[
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beast

  • 2997
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2009, 11:25:13 PM »
Sorry couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.

The answer to the OP question is almost certainly no - humans will never evolve to a stage where we are unable to give natural birth.  The reason for this is simple.  For that to happen there would have to be a significant advantage in being unable to give birth naturally.  Parents who were unable to have natural births would have to have some kind of survival and breeding advantage over parents who could give birth naturally.  When you then consider the fact that they would have to have access to technology that allows them to give birth unnaturally, and that we can not see any advantage that reliance on technology would give, it's hard to imagine it happening.

We then need to consider that currently the majority of unnatural births do not occur for genetic factors, but things related to illness, the position of the baby in the womb or the convenience of the mother. 

For humans to evolve to not be able to give birth naturally there would need to be an advantage in having a genetic defect that makes natural birth more realistic.  What would be this advantage?  There certainly doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest it exists at the moment.


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midgard

  • 1300
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2009, 04:01:13 AM »
Quote from: beast on March 10, 2009, 11:25:13 PM
Sorry couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.

No worries, I gathered that from your reply. I found the discussion rather interesting and you may too if you go back and read it. I won't reply to the points I think we covered in the discussion (I may go back and edit the original post though so that anybody coming into it new will hopefully be up to date). :)

There was only one new part to address that I could see (and I have a niggling feeling it was addressed very close to the start).

Quote from: beast on March 10, 2009, 11:25:13 PM
We then need to consider that currently the majority of unnatural births do not occur for genetic factors, but things related to illness, the position of the baby in the womb or the convenience of the mother.

The unnatural deliveries that occur that aren't due to genetic factors are irrelevant to the conversation unless we were trying to draw some conclusions based on the prevalence of unnatural births - which we're not.


I think I'll definitely go back and edit the original post... please be patient.

Very patient, I've got to fight with my lack of motivation.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 05:25:15 AM by midgard »
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beast

  • 2997
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2009, 08:08:41 PM »
But if unnatural deliveries due to genetic factors are a very small minority, it will take an exceptionally long time before that gene or combinations of genes are found in a large number of people, and that's assuming they have some kind of advantage over people without those genes - which is hard to believe.
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midgard

  • 1300
Re: A few selective pressures removed
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2009, 04:51:23 AM »
Quote from: beast on March 12, 2009, 08:08:41 PM
But if unnatural deliveries due to genetic factors are a very small minority, it will take an exceptionally long time before that gene or combinations of genes are found in a large number of people, and that's assuming they have some kind of advantage over people without those genes - which is hard to believe.

What you're saying here has nothing to do with the ratio of unnatural deliveries* that are due to genetic factors compared to unnatural births that aren't. What you're really talking about it the ratio of unnatural deliveries that are due to genetic factors compared to all other deliveries.

As far as the time it would take for this to happen and needing an advantage, you've brought nothing new to the table - please hang your head in shame. ;)

However, I am curious as to why you personally find it hard to believe; is it just because you cannot think of any advantages or is there some other reason?


*Every time I write that I envision some bizarre delivery room set up like something from frankenstein...
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