Day Fines

This has nothing to do with how much someone contributes to society,

It has everything to do with it in the sense that subjective equality is never decided upon by the victim of the injustice. 

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on February 08, 2009, 10:58:50 AM

This has nothing to do with how much someone contributes to society,

It has everything to do with it in the sense that subjective equality is never decided upon by the victim of the injustice. 

eh? Sorry, don't understand what you're saying here, can you rephrase it please?

In other words, who is to decide what is fair and what isn't fair if it is not to be equal?  Once subjective reasoning is invoked, meaning once you try to equal the playing field based on your opinion, the playing field inevitably becomes skewed eventually in the favor of those deciding peoples fate based on that personal opinion. 

But how is it equal if the punishment only punishes the poor and not the rich? That just conveys the message that rich people can do whatever the hell they want, like endanger lives by speeding.

But how is it equal if the punishment punishes the rich more than the poor? That just conveys the message that poor people can do whatever the hell they want, like endanger lives by speeding.

How does it punish the rich more than the poor?

It would if you made it a relative percent of income.

How does that punish them more? It makes the punishment equal by making the sting of the fine equally felt.

It makes it unequal by fining them more, the rest is irrelevant.

It would if you made it a relative percent of income.

Well yeah it would punish them more if you compare it to our current system but it would make it more fair, it is the same idea as a flat tax system right now say you make $2000 a month and you get a $200 fine, basically you are gettin fined 10% of your income for that month now say a guy who makes $20,000 a month gets that same fine, is it really fair that his fine is so much smaller in proportion to his income. Who is being punished more?

Your definition of fair is subjective.

Look at it this way.  If laws were not decided upon equally and justly, but instead subjectively based on personal opinion and 'fairness', who would get the short end of the stick in the long run?  Once you allow unequal punishment once where does it stop?  In 1787 it was decided that all men are created equal but due to subjective reasoning, that did not apply to all men.  I'll ask again, should younger people be sentenced to longer terms because they have more life left to live?

First, speeding is usaully a Civil offense rather than Criminal one.

It sounds like they are using a simple flat % rate or a Time = Money factor to determine the amount of fine.

Either way, it's an attempt to level the playing field by leveling the paying field.

Here in sinCity, all fines are now astronomical based on garnering a max amount to pay off the construction loans on the shiny new Court building. Ah..... Progress,

Look at it this way.  If laws were not decided upon equally and justly, but instead subjectively based on personal opinion and 'fairness', who would get the short end of the stick in the long run?  Once you allow unequal punishment once where does it stop?  In 1787 it was decided that all men are created equal but due to subjective reasoning, that did not apply to all men.  I'll ask again, should younger people be sentenced to longer terms because they have more life left to live?

By that reasoning having different sentences for different crimes is wrong because its based on personal opinion about what crime is worse. Should murderers get the same sentence as shoplifters?

No, because no matter rich or poor, you will serve the same term for each under identical circumstances in most cases.

No, because no matter rich or poor, you will serve the same term for each under identical circumstances in most cases.

And here, no matter rich or poor you will be receive the same punishment in fines too. Adjusting for income is what makes it the same.

Look at it this way.  If laws were not decided upon equally and justly, but instead subjectively based on personal opinion and 'fairness', who would get the short end of the stick in the long run?  Once you allow unequal punishment once where does it stop?  In 1787 it was decided that all men are created equal but due to subjective reasoning, that did not apply to all men.  I'll ask again, should younger people be sentenced to longer terms because they have more life left to live?

What is so unfaur about a percentage based fine? If you fine a persin 5% of their income who is being punished more

And here, no matter rich or poor you will be receive the same punishment in fines too. Adjusting for income is what makes it the same.

Adjusting is exactly what makes it unequal, hence discriminatory.

What is so unfaur about a percentage based fine? If you fine a persin 5% of their income who is being punished more

The person with the higher income.

Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 01:15:40 PM

What is so unfaur about a percentage based fine? If you fine a persin 5% of their income who is being punished more

The person with the higher income.

How so

Speeding is a violation of a civil privilege (use of public access) and only criminal if mitigated.  

I say Fine the shit out of the asshole in the ZoomCar going twice the posted limit and pay the guy in the Yugo for even attaining it.

Quote from: Robbyj on February 08, 2009, 01:17:04 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 01:15:40 PM

What is so unfaur about a percentage based fine? If you fine a persin 5% of their income who is being punished more

The person with the higher income.

How so

Simply because they would be fined a larger amount.  How would you feel about prison terms being assigned as a percentage of your remaining life based on an average lifespan? 

Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 01:18:08 PM

Quote from: Robbyj on February 08, 2009, 01:17:04 PM

Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 01:15:40 PM

What is so unfaur about a percentage based fine? If you fine a persin 5% of their income who is being punished more

The person with the higher income.

How so

Simply because they would be fined a larger amount.  How would you feel about prison terms being assigned as a percentage of your remaining life based on an average lifespan? 

That is not the same because everyones freedon can be measured equally yet a student who only makes $800 a month is being hurt more by a $1000 fine that a guy who makes $20000 so where is the discrimination now.

A guy who will live 20 more years is being hurt more more by a one year sentence than a student who will live 60 more years so where is the discrimination now.

A guy who will live 20 more years is being hurt more more by a one year sentence than a student who will live 60 more years so where is the discrimination now.

you could also argue that the one year the 20 year old is incarcerated will affect him more since it wil follow him for a longer period. So, no like I said your freedom is equal unless you want to argue that some people should not be imprisoned because they are better than others

So, no like I said your freedom is equal

I agree completely, but in my opinion everything should be equal including financial matters.  If not, where do you draw the line?

Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 01:31:04 PM

So, no like I said your freedom is equal

I agree completely, but in my opinion everything should be equal including financial matters.  If not, where do you draw the line?

But a percentage based fine does keep it equal, yeah people who make more will pay more but percentage wise they are being hurt that same as a poor person

I disagree with that as well.  If Bill Gates got a 10% income fine he would still have billions and billions of dollars.  I would not exactly call that hurting.

I disagree with that as well.  If Bill Gates got a 10% income fine he would still have billions and billions of dollars.  I would not exactly call that hurting.

but it is still fair

I disagree with that as well.  If Bill Gates got a 10% income fine he would still have billions and billions of dollars.  I would not exactly call that hurting.

but it hurts him more than just fining him a $100

I say Fine the shit out of the asshole in the ZoomCar going twice the posted limit and pay the guy in the Yugo for even attaining it.

hehehe