Something doesnt add up

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bowler

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #180 on: March 08, 2009, 03:37:03 PM »
Oddly I know someone who did one of those round the world tours. He went from Macchu Picchu (that a pure guess so feel free to flame) to New Zealand. I asked he didn't remember hearing a sonic boom or indeed the plane looking like the SR-71 though he does drink on planes.

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #181 on: March 08, 2009, 03:40:10 PM »
I'm willing to bet the plane he flew on was guided by a GPS system, so could have taken advantage of the layered jet streams in the atmolayer.
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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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bowler

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #182 on: March 08, 2009, 03:43:04 PM »
Do they not all go the same way, which is the other way. Wait..no.... ah ok.

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NTheGreat

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #183 on: March 08, 2009, 03:46:50 PM »
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Unless I'm mistaken most of the early flights were conducted using dead reckoning in the Northern 'hemisphere', where FET and RET don't deviate too greatly.  Later flights also used dead reckoning and frequent stopovers to refuel, and again most were either over land (again where FET and RET don't disagree that greatly) or in the North.

Southern 'hemisphere' flights that crossed the oceans came later (although please correct me if I'm wrong on this point) and there aren't enough of them to conclusively prove that there are no viable FE solutions to the ocean sizes before GPS became widely used.

But the problem is that it takes a lot longer to travel somewhere in the Southern hemisphere in the FE model, so the GPS would be slowing the planes down in the Northern hemisphere in order to make the two hemisphere seem to match up, where people would be more likely to notice.

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #184 on: March 08, 2009, 03:49:19 PM »
But the problem is that it takes a lot longer to travel somewhere in the Southern hemisphere in the FE model, so the GPS would be slowing the planes down in the Northern hemisphere in order to make the two hemisphere seem to match up, where people would be more likely to notice.

Unless there are high speed layered jet streams for the planes to take advantage of...
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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NTheGreat

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #185 on: March 08, 2009, 08:18:24 PM »
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Unless there are high speed layered jet streams for the planes to take advantage of...

Or perhaps some kind of fundamental force that accelerates things in the Southern hemisphere, maybe a wormhole that takes planes across the ocean in a few hours, possibly an army of invisible hypersonic birds that push the craft around the planet.

It's all well and good saying what could be doing these things, but which one requires the fewest assumptions and unknown mechanisms? The Earth being round, or the Earth being flat with bi-directional jet streams that the GPS receivers manage to trick pilots into flying into?

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #186 on: March 08, 2009, 09:21:00 PM »
Unless I'm mistaken most of the early flights were conducted using dead reckoning in the Northern 'hemisphere', where FET and RET don't deviate too greatly.  Later flights also used dead reckoning and frequent stopovers to refuel, and again most were either over land (again where FET and RET don't disagree that greatly) or in the North.

Southern 'hemisphere' flights that crossed the oceans came later (although please correct me if I'm wrong on this point) and there aren't enough of them to conclusively prove that there are no viable FE solutions to the ocean sizes before GPS became widely used.
First and foremost, kudos on the style... You're the Man!

There's definite validity to your points. The SH (being ambiguous about what the H stands for -- hemidisc? hemisphere?) is less populated has less land mass and greater distances between its three populated continents. (Asia all but abuts North America in contrast.) Furthermore Great Circle routes don't take commercial traffic any where near the far south as the SH continents are rather distant from that area. Use Google Earth to look 'down' from the RE SP, and you'll be amazed how different the SP region is from the NP.

However, with commercial flights now regularly scheduled and measured between various cities and doing a little math, assuming that no one is breaking the sound barrier on a commercial flight, FE is falsified easily. There have been several convincing posts. I suggest SEARCH on Chile, South Africa, Perth, etc. If you want to do the 'armchair' experiment: use a travel site to see the on-time arrival statistics for various pairings of SH cities. Be sure to eliminate the Jet Stream effect by looking at the 'return' flights. Be sure to ignore Tom Bishop when he says that the flights aren't always on time. If the average flight time is less than FE can handle, FE is falsified.

Thanks again!

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #187 on: March 09, 2009, 12:58:33 PM »
First and foremost, kudos on the style... You're the Man!

There's definite validity to your points. The SH (being ambiguous about what the H stands for -- hemidisc? hemisphere?) is less populated has less land mass and greater distances between its three populated continents. (Asia all but abuts North America in contrast.) Furthermore Great Circle routes don't take commercial traffic any where near the far south as the SH continents are rather distant from that area. Use Google Earth to look 'down' from the RE SP, and you'll be amazed how different the SP region is from the NP.

However, with commercial flights now regularly scheduled and measured between various cities and doing a little math, assuming that no one is breaking the sound barrier on a commercial flight, FE is falsified easily. There have been several convincing posts. I suggest SEARCH on Chile, South Africa, Perth, etc. If you want to do the 'armchair' experiment: use a travel site to see the on-time arrival statistics for various pairings of SH cities. Be sure to eliminate the Jet Stream effect by looking at the 'return' flights. Be sure to ignore Tom Bishop when he says that the flights aren't always on time. If the average flight time is less than FE can handle, FE is falsified.

Thanks again!

That's quite alright, it's always nice to get some appreciation for my efforts.

I'm currently idly working on a theory whereby a Coriolis-type force could allow for layered jet streams to exist in a graded manner in the atmosphere/layer, which would end up producing an infinite torque gradient at some distance above the surface (essentially a rotational 'event horizon' preventing space travel above a certain altitude, presumably linked to the UA mechanism). This is obviously not that easy, but the idea is there anyway.

Basically this would scale with distance from the centre of rotation (the North Pole) in such a way as to cancel out the increased distance... Geometrically it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that this would allow for a knowledgeable conspirator to make flights take as long or as short as they wished... perhaps a link to UFO's observed moving incredibly fast with no associated sonic boom? NASA would certainly have the funds to exploit this type of technology, and other space agencies may well have done the same.  Perhaps the 'Space Race' was in fact a race to control the graded atmolayer?
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #188 on: March 24, 2009, 09:28:11 AM »
First and foremost, kudos on the style... You're the Man!

There's definite validity to your points. The SH (being ambiguous about what the H stands for -- hemidisc? hemisphere?) is less populated has less land mass and greater distances between its three populated continents. (Asia all but abuts North America in contrast.) Furthermore Great Circle routes don't take commercial traffic any where near the far south as the SH continents are rather distant from that area. Use Google Earth to look 'down' from the RE SP, and you'll be amazed how different the SP region is from the NP.

However, with commercial flights now regularly scheduled and measured between various cities and doing a little math, assuming that no one is breaking the sound barrier on a commercial flight, FE is falsified easily. There have been several convincing posts. I suggest SEARCH on Chile, South Africa, Perth, etc. If you want to do the 'armchair' experiment: use a travel site to see the on-time arrival statistics for various pairings of SH cities. Be sure to eliminate the Jet Stream effect by looking at the 'return' flights. Be sure to ignore Tom Bishop when he says that the flights aren't always on time. If the average flight time is less than FE can handle, FE is falsified.

Thanks again!

That's quite alright, it's always nice to get some appreciation for my efforts.

I'm currently idly working on a theory whereby a Coriolis-type force could allow for layered jet streams to exist in a graded manner in the atmosphere/layer, which would end up producing an infinite torque gradient at some distance above the surface (essentially a rotational 'event horizon' preventing space travel above a certain altitude, presumably linked to the UA mechanism). This is obviously not that easy, but the idea is there anyway.

Basically this would scale with distance from the centre of rotation (the North Pole) in such a way as to cancel out the increased distance... Geometrically it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that this would allow for a knowledgeable conspirator to make flights take as long or as short as they wished...

So is every pilot on earth in on the conspiracy?  Whoever would have thought it...

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #189 on: March 24, 2009, 03:40:06 PM »
So is every pilot on earth in on the conspiracy?  Whoever would have thought it...

lrn2readbeforeposting
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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adfhjdfuyc

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #190 on: March 27, 2009, 09:55:05 AM »
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Is it worth me actually doing the work to get this data?

Yes it is. When you guys actually have some data to present please let us know so we can look at it.

When you actually have some data that proves the earth flat, please let us know.

Haha. You're going to be waiting for a LONG time!! They don't have ANY valid evidence WHATSOEVER. It's all just a dillusion :P.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #191 on: March 27, 2009, 10:01:30 AM »
Haha. You're going to be waiting for a LONG time!! They don't have ANY valid evidence WHATSOEVER. It's all just a dillusion :P.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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zork

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #192 on: March 27, 2009, 11:46:17 AM »
But the problem is that it takes a lot longer to travel somewhere in the Southern hemisphere in the FE model, so the GPS would be slowing the planes down in the Northern hemisphere in order to make the two hemisphere seem to match up, where people would be more likely to notice.
Unless there are high speed layered jet streams for the planes to take advantage of...
Unless there are... if there are then they must be visually unobservable. Take that in account when you work on your layered yet stream theory.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Mammon

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #193 on: March 28, 2009, 03:18:21 AM »
LOL FE's argument to insufficient evidence is due to a lack of resources and funding.. So then that proves you don't in fact have any evidence as you admit you can't provide it because you don't have the means.. So then why believe in FE?

We're not the ones that need the evidence, you do.

That flat earth map, it's flawed in so many ways.. Flying from New Zealand to South America should take DAYS according to it when it took me only a few hours.. Oh and at least make yours a little more realistic.. 3D or some sh*t..


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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #194 on: March 28, 2009, 09:22:17 AM »
Unless there are... if there are then they must be visually unobservable. Take that in account when you work on your layered yet stream theory.

You can see the wind, can you?
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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zork

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #195 on: March 28, 2009, 12:54:50 PM »
Unless there are... if there are then they must be visually unobservable. Take that in account when you work on your layered yet stream theory.
You can see the wind, can you?
I can see effect of the wind. Or do you say that the yet stream canals are always clear and there are no clouds?
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #196 on: March 28, 2009, 01:26:38 PM »
I can see effect of the wind. Or do you say that the yet stream canals are always clear and there are no clouds?

Having not performed an exhaustive study of high altitude wind in the Southern 'hemiplane' I can't be certain, but it's possible that clouds preferentially form in some layers rather than others.
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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blackgoat

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #197 on: March 29, 2009, 10:47:00 PM »
What happened to that good thread showing the length of underwater internet cables, and corresponding data with latency/ping delays that was consistent with RE maps?  Another thread that Tom Bishop and his motley crew just ignored?


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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #198 on: March 31, 2009, 03:09:50 PM »
What happened to that good thread showing the length of underwater internet cables, and corresponding data with latency/ping delays that was consistent with RE maps?  Another thread that Tom Bishop and his motley crew just ignored?

I suspect the conspiracy deleted it.
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

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bahamut zero

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #199 on: March 31, 2009, 03:17:16 PM »
i just read this thread and i think that it absolutely shows how fake the whole fe theory is....tom says tha he needs the complete flat earth map in order to explain how the flight times work in the fe model...come on people!!!according to the flight times displayed by various members it is completely impossible to explain how these times work on a flat earth model..

some members have already proven that by taking just 4 flight times in consideration it is impossible to create a valid fe map...imagine what is going to happen if someone takes all flight times in consideration...  ::)furthermore tom said that creating a map needs lots of resources....well actually not...assuming that the flight times are correct and that the planes do not fly in circles tom would easily create a map using those times by connecting the flight destinations...this would be easy if the earth was flat...but since it is not this task is just impossible...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 03:22:07 PM by bahamut zero »
i am greek so english is not my native language..

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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #200 on: July 28, 2009, 08:50:27 AM »
wikipedia quote: 'Flat Earth Society also does not have an answer for the discrepancies that arise in surface distances between a round Earth map and that of the flat Earth equivalent.'

this amused me.. perhaps a FE theorist would like to go in and correct this statement after giving a decent answer to this thread  ;)

real earth distances still add up while flat earth distances dont come close, despite lots of silly responses about jet streams and conspiracies. im surprised people still bother to argue all the other points when this one is still up in the air.

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Squat

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #201 on: July 28, 2009, 09:15:41 AM »
LOL

It does make you wonder, when a map is a 2 dimensional representation of the ground, why the FE pseudoscientists have such a problem creating a 2 dimensional representation of their flat earth.

Flat earth, flat map. How difficult can it be?

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SSSavio

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #202 on: July 28, 2009, 09:54:45 AM »
The FE maps are hypothetical only.

So the FE thery is hipothetical only too.

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Squat

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #203 on: July 28, 2009, 10:06:20 AM »
There is no one FE theory LOL.

It's just a bunch of separate ideas based on "Well it looks flat so it must be flat". Non of the separate ideas join up into a coherent model which is why they are trying to see if they can convince themselves that "bendy light" is a possibility because they think they could explain everything with it. Well, apart from the Ice Wall/Infinite plain models.



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theworldman

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #204 on: July 28, 2009, 10:08:31 AM »
I have another question for flat-earthers.

How does google earth take pictures of the earth and is able to do real time satellite images of streets all across the world.The satellite shows the world is spherical and it can be proven that this is real because you can zoom ii on your exact house.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #205 on: July 28, 2009, 12:14:11 PM »
I have another question for flat-earthers.

How does google earth take pictures of the earth and is able to do real time satellite images of streets all across the world.The satellite shows the world is spherical and it can be proven that this is real because you can zoom ii on your exact house.

If you have a question to ask, do so in Q&C. Discussions in D&D must stick to the topic at hand.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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SSSavio

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #206 on: July 29, 2009, 01:28:37 AM »
I have another question for flat-earthers.

How does google earth take pictures of the earth and is able to do real time satellite images of streets all across the world.The satellite shows the world is spherical and it can be proven that this is real because you can zoom ii on your exact house.

If you have a question to ask, do so in Q&C. Discussions in D&D must stick to the topic at hand.

No answers at all... Looking good.

Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #207 on: July 29, 2009, 03:42:58 AM »
what Tom is trying to say is he likes to debate.

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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #208 on: March 04, 2010, 07:52:14 AM »
still nothing?

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merg

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #209 on: March 04, 2010, 08:07:38 AM »
This thread really makes me laugh...

Last time I checked, it was the FEers who needed to prove the Earth was flat, not the REers who needed to prove the Earth was round...theirs is the outlandish claim, theirs is the thinking that goes contrary to orthodoxy, thus theirs is the hypothesis that needs proving...and this "the Bishop" character (who seems to have acquired legendary internet FE status!) posts flippant remarks along the lines that it's REers who are subject to the burden of proof...  :D

Respect...  :)