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Something doesnt add up

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2009, 02:34:54 PM »
Quote from: RoundSquares on February 08, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
As i've already said Tom, and you have failed to listen or to even take into account any argument that you can't disprove:
We do not need accurate data, approximations that are accurate ENOUGH in the real world disprove the Earth's flatness. The times will only work on a spherical Earth. Therefore, we have already proved it, but you only select some posts to reply to, which is not only narrow minded, it's ridiculously annoying seeing as you cannot disprove our argument, and the Earth is not flat.

So no data then?
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2009, 02:35:54 PM »
There he goes again - keep it up Tom  ;D
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2009, 02:38:13 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 08, 2009, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: RoundSquares on February 08, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
As i've already said Tom, and you have failed to listen or to even take into account any argument that you can't disprove:
We do not need accurate data, approximations that are accurate ENOUGH in the real world disprove the Earth's flatness. The times will only work on a spherical Earth. Therefore, we have already proved it, but you only select some posts to reply to, which is not only narrow minded, it's ridiculously annoying seeing as you cannot disprove our argument, and the Earth is not flat.

So no data then?
We are waiting on yur data tom
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2009, 02:39:52 PM »
Tom doesn't do data, only arguing the minutae in grammar of arguments - he doesn't have a single fact in his head. In fact I predict his next post will prove that!
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2009, 02:46:04 PM »
I stand corrected - he is going to duck out of the argument all together - thus proving that he has no rebuttal to any of the facts presented in this thread.

Chalk one up for round earth fact.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2009, 02:48:55 PM »
Well when you guys have some data demonstrating that the earth takes the shape of a globe and no other please get a hold of me so we can continue this thread.
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2009, 02:51:25 PM »
Quote
Well when you guys have some data demonstrating that the earth takes the shape of a globe and no other please get a hold of me so we can continue this thread.

Pretty much as predicted - he slithers and slides but not a single fact exists in his tiny mind!
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2009, 03:01:10 PM »
And once again he disappears - what a worthy adversary he is!  ;D
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2009, 03:04:39 PM »
Still no data?
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2009, 03:06:30 PM »
Like a broken record - he asks for data, whilst all can see he uses this argument as a safety blanket for his lack of knowledge.

Tom we're on to you!

Answer the request for data from you, and you will receive your data. Since no data exists to prove a flat earth - this may take some time.
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2009, 03:06:45 PM »
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Hammod

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2009, 03:14:13 PM »
You know one of these days I'll pop onto this forum and I'll find real evidence of a flat earth, Tom Bishop will answer a question......

And my lottery numbers will come up. All equally unlikely I think you'll find.

Goodnight all!. Tom remember to hang on to the earth - you might fall off!
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Aqua Dragon

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2009, 04:52:55 PM »
I'm curious about something. How come the Round Earthers have to prove without a doubt that the Earth is round and no other shape but the Flat Earthers don't have to prove without a doubt that the the Earth is flat and no other shape?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2009, 05:16:00 PM »
Quote from: Aqua Dragon on February 08, 2009, 04:52:55 PM
I'm curious about something. How come the Round Earthers have to prove without a doubt that the Earth is round and no other shape but the Flat Earthers don't have to prove without a doubt that the the Earth is flat and no other shape?

Because we're not the ones here claiming to have travel and cartographical data which proves our model.
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Aqua Dragon

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2009, 05:45:01 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 08, 2009, 05:16:00 PM
Because we're not the ones here claiming to have travel and cartographical data which proves our model.

But if you have no proof of your model being right, you're not really proving that the Earth is flat. All you're managing to prove is that the Earth isn't round.

In order to prove your side, wouldn't you need to chalk up proof for the Earth being flat and no other possible shape, not even round?

If the Earth is "proven" not to be Round, but you have no proof of it being Flat either, which shape are we supposed to go along with? I would think that most people would want to stick by the one that at least has the MOST AMOUNT of proof, even if it is not perfect.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 05:46:34 PM by Aqua Dragon »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2009, 06:03:49 PM »
Quote from: Aqua Dragon on February 08, 2009, 05:45:01 PM
But if you have no proof of your model being right, you're not really proving that the Earth is flat. All you're managing to prove is that the Earth isn't round.

In order to prove your side, wouldn't you need to chalk up proof for the Earth being flat and no other possible shape, not even round?

If the Earth is "proven" not to be Round, but you have no proof of it being Flat either, which shape are we supposed to go along with? I would think that most people would want to stick by the one that at least has the MOST AMOUNT of proof, even if it is not perfect.

What are you babbling about now?

You guys keep claiming that you have all this cartographical data which proves that the earth is a globe. So lets see it.
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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2009, 06:07:06 PM »
oh my goodness me, i'm extremely drunk, but as i've said Tom, we have our estimated data, and it's accurate enough to disprove Flat Earth Theory. So YOU need data to continue this argument.

If the UK to Australia is 24 hours, yet Australia to S.America is less than 24 hours, how does FE work? This is on experience and empirical data of flight times which are as short as possible. Airlines are not in on the conspiracy according to the FAQ. And if they were, and according to FET the reason is MONEY, then they'd still fly the shortest possible route to reduce fuel expense. Which begs the question, if on your map you move S. America closer to Australia...how come a flight from S. America to Russia remains the same.

YOU CANNOT DISPROVE EMPIRICAL DATA. Tom Bishop and your "exact data" argument fails. As i've said at least 3 times: We don't need exact data to disprove Flat Earth theory...we have rough estimates that are empirically accurate, yet you have given us no rebuttal or data/more accurate map/revised map of your own.
You completely lose this argument, so admit the only Earth shape that fits the facts is a round one. Seriously, you are wrong. We could do the research, but if you aren't even going to bother replying with a proper response, there is no point. You are completely and utterly flawed.

Tom Bishop=fraud, and he knows it.

edited for spelling mistake
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2009, 06:24:11 PM »
Quote
oh my goodness me, i'm extremely drunk, but as i've said Tom, we have our estimated data, and it's accurate enough to disprove Flat Earth Theory. So YOU need data to continue this argument.

Where's the data?
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2009, 07:06:25 PM »
Here you go tom based upon thousands of years of observations and charting of the land and water masses

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Aqua Dragon

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2009, 08:18:55 PM »
Quote
What are you babbling about now?

I'll try to explain this again. Basically, Round Earthers are trying to prove that the Earth is a globe. Flat Earthers are trying to prove it's flat. That part is pretty obvious.

The thing is that though you've offered reasons for the Flat Earth being an alternative theory, there have been very few logical attacks on the Round Earth theory that have managed to succeed. Even if you manage to prove that a Flat Earth is possible, the point is that the chance of it being a Round Earth is more plausible unless you give us reason to believe otherwise. That's basically what I was saying. You constantly ask us to prove that the Earth is, without a doubt, round but you never seem to chalk up prove of the Earth being, without a doubt, flat. All you manage to defend is that the Earth has to be flat, but for no other reason then because it can't be round (for another odd reason which you've never managed to explain). Even if we can't prove the Earth is round, it doesn't matter because you have no proof that it is Flat and so the theory will not have any weight to the world being Flat.

It's basically like saying "Well because you can't prove it is round, it HAS to be flat regardless of any other shape it could be." Or worse, "You can't prove it's round, so it has to be flat only because it can't be round." The amount of evidence that supports a Round earth is far more numerous in quantity and quality then Flat Earth.

Quote
You guys keep claiming that you have all this cartographical data which proves that the earth is a globe. So lets see it.

The airline times thing that has been mentioned, The observable sizes of Mars and Venus in comparison to the FE sun, Constellations, problems with a FE core, photos from outerspace.

Those are some list of stuff. If you want more specific things on each one, I'm pretty sure I could rake some up.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2009, 08:23:45 PM »
Quote
Here you go tom based upon thousands of years of observations and charting of the land and water masses

Where are the observations and data?


Quote
I'll try to explain this again. Basically, Round Earthers are trying to prove that the Earth is a globe. Flat Earthers are trying to prove it's flat. That part is pretty obvious.

The thing is that though you've offered reasons for the Flat Earth being an alternative theory, there have been very few logical attacks on the Round Earth theory that have managed to succeed. Even if you manage to prove that a Flat Earth is possible, the point is that the chance of it being a Round Earth is more plausible unless you give us reason to believe otherwise. That's basically what I was saying. You constantly ask us to prove that the Earth is, without a doubt, round but you never seem to chalk up prove of the Earth being, without a doubt, flat. All you manage to defend is that the Earth has to be flat, but for no other reason then because it can't be round (for another odd reason which you've never managed to explain). Even if we can't prove the Earth is round, it doesn't matter because you have no proof that it is Flat and so the theory will not have any weight to the world being Flat.

It's basically like saying "Well because you can't prove it is round, it HAS to be flat regardless of any other shape it could be." Or worse, "You can't prove it's round, so it has to be flat only because it can't be round." The amount of evidence that supports a Round earth is far more numerous in quantity and quality then Flat Earth.

The airline times thing that has been mentioned, The observable sizes of Mars and Venus in comparison to the FE sun, Constellations, problems with a FE core, photos from outerspace.

Those are some list of stuff. If you want more specific things on each one, I'm pretty sure I could rake some up.

Still no data or observations for your model then. Got it.
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Johannes

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2009, 08:35:12 PM »
Classic example of someone hesitant to accept change from what they have been force fed since they were young... Nothing to see here folks...
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cbarnett97

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2009, 08:49:13 PM »
Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 07:06:25 PM
Here are your observations and Data, feel free to review the landmasses for accuracy


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RoundSquares

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2009, 01:58:10 AM »
What's with the "no data then" ?
We've quoted flight times that work on an accurate map. Yes?

I'm saying, the flight times, which are globally accepted by people and empirically work, cannot work on a Flat Earth map because on a flat Earth map, you cannot keep the maximum flight time 24 hours because it will always be more likely to be horizontally biased somewhere on the map.

Do you understand that Tom? What the hell are you talking about with no data? We don't need a huge list of data, we've already told you our reason, it's your turn to revoke the argument? You're just being stubborn and ridiculous at the moment.

And
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 08, 2009, 08:35:12 PM
Classic example of someone hesitant to accept change from what they have been force fed since they were young... Nothing to see here folks...

Rofl, force fed? Or Taught? I'm pretty sure it's the Flat Earthers refusing to accept the truth here, Round Earth has a model that fits all known scientific knowledge, so if it fits for some of it, and it's not ALL a conspiracy (not all science is from NASA) as well as fitting NASA's, we should conclude that all knowledge is correct and none is a conspiracy. However, your science does not fit with anyone's accepted view of the world or of science, it is all reliant on only your own theories, therefore we can conclude that it is a Flat Earth conspiracy, rather than the other way around. And in any case, as i've already said, and i'll humor you here, let's say there is a conspiracy and NASA is hiding something:
-Global Airlines are not in on the conspiracy. Why?
--Their reason would be financial gain
--You can make more money with shorter flights, because it is less fuel expense.
--Therefore, if it were possible (like it will be inevitably on any FE map) to get to some places using less fuel than they do at the moment, they'd take that chance
--They do not. If they are in on the conspiracy, why would they take a longer flight and risk losing their ever precious money?
-Flight times are consistent, to get to the accepted opposite point on the globe takes 24 hours maximum.
--In FE theory, this will always increase somewhere on the map, even if you change the map slightly to account for any flight we quote,
--BUT we do not need to quote any to be sure that this theoretical proof is true. We need no data, Tom.

So where's your theory, (or data as you like it so much) to revoke the argument?



And if you want a bit of data: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26662.0
Check the SFO, NYC, LGW flights, it's got maths in it.
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basketballjones

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2009, 02:56:17 AM »
Not to mention the great circle that Airline pilots often fly. The great circle is the shortest path between two points along the surface of a sphere. To take any other path will increase the flight time (all else being equal) and cost due to the increased distance flown.

In a FE world the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. It is not a curved line. So, in a FE world pilots routinely and purposely take routes other than the most efficient. You'd think that the airlines were in the business to make money (ie the whole reason for the conspiracy in the first place), not to waste it.

But let me guess. The airline websites where they post the supposed flight paths of the airlines is wrong. The gps displays that the airlines show on the tv's is also wrong.  And lastly, personal GPS devices that can record your path during flight are also wrong. But they're only wrong when plotting the path, they aren't wrong when you're standing still.

eg this website - http://frank.itlab.us/worldtrip_2002/ . This guy predicted his flight path based on the great circle and had his GPS confirm it. He's even been so kind as to post a text dump of his trip, but i suppose he has intentionally plotted incorrect or intentionally inefficient coordinates too.

So far i can include in the conspiracy -  every airline in the world, the tibetan government (and people) and this guy C. Frank Starmer.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 02:57:57 AM by basketballjones »
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fenterb

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2009, 04:02:04 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 08, 2009, 06:24:11 PM
Quote
oh my goodness me, i'm extremely drunk, but as i've said Tom, we have our estimated data, and it's accurate enough to disprove Flat Earth Theory. So YOU need data to continue this argument.

Where's the data?

I could post some flight times on here (and I already have) but we have better than just one set of data, we have every flight timetable from every single airline in the world backing up round earth theory.

There is overwhelming round earth evidence integrated into the travel plans of the worlds air traffic customers.  Due to this the burden of proof now lies on you if you want to suggest otherwise.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2009, 10:35:10 AM »
Quote from: cbarnett97 on February 08, 2009, 07:06:25 PM
Here you go tom based upon thousands of years of observations and charting of the land and water masses



Looks pretty flat to me...
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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markjo

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2009, 12:52:31 PM »
Quote from: Matrix on February 09, 2009, 10:35:10 AM
Looks pretty flat to me...

That's probably because you have a flat screen monitor.

Does that look any rounder?
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2009, 12:55:08 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
Does that look any rounder?

How could I have been so blind?! All these years I've been living a lie!
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Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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markjo

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Re: Something doesnt add up
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2009, 01:08:22 PM »
Quote from: Matrix on February 09, 2009, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: markjo on February 09, 2009, 12:52:31 PM
Does that look any rounder?

How could I have been so blind?! All these years I've been living a lie!

Glad I could help.  8)
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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