Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #210 on: February 07, 2009, 11:17:53 AM »
I see you point completely. My only counterpoint I'd offer is that, the government has a responsibility to keep it's citizens healthy in order that they remain productive and the country continues to prosper. Surely you can agree to that at least? I'm not saying convert the U.S into the Soviet Union 2.0, I'm merely saying that the healthy of society are the productive of society.



Healthy... should be a person's concern.  No one, not you, not me, not any official has the right to force a person to go to the doctor.

I will agree that the medical care be there, yes.  But even God gave us free will.  No power should be able to force someone to do something.

I have a living will and certain instructions in case of certain types of accidents, just so I don't end up in the middle of something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo

Have the medical help there, yes.  Force it, give the government the right to say you have to take this drug or that treatment, no.

Apologies, I fear there may have been some misinterpretation of what I said. I was in fact arguingthe same thing that you just did. The government should supply healthcare so that it is available to everyone. Forced medicine sounds a little too much like Josef Mengele to me.
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Ravenwood240

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #211 on: February 07, 2009, 11:18:05 AM »
Your quoting is broke again...

And you're not disagreeing me, you're disagreeing with the UN.
But I would think that the country has a responisiblity to send them back, yes, but only if it is safe to send them back (which in the case of the US with I assume most of the illegal immigrants coming Mexico then yeah its safe) but the country also has a responsibility to care for them if they are sick or injured on the basis that it is human rights that we are talking about here, they apply to everyone in a State regardless of who they are or why they are there.

Under that thinking, Gayer, the state could charge you for that trespasser's broken leg, since it happened on your property.

The rules for States and the rules for individuals are not exactly the same. Individuals are not expected to do the same humanitarian actions as States as because States have different powers and resources than individuals do. The law should not force an individual to directly pay for another person's injury or illness, even if it occurs on their own property, but the law should require that all pay indirectly for the healthcare of all peoples that are in the country they are in.


But anyway, can we all agree now that healthcare is a human right and not a privilege?

The UN does call it one and my country signed off on it, so yes... despite the fact I disagree. ;D
Belief gets in the way of learning.  If you believe something, you've closed your mind to any further thought.  I know some things, little things, not the nine million names of God.

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theonlydann

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #212 on: February 07, 2009, 11:40:16 AM »
I still disagree. Screw all these damn hippies.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #213 on: February 07, 2009, 11:42:26 AM »
Your quoting is broke again...

And you're not disagreeing me, you're disagreeing with the UN.
But I would think that the country has a responisiblity to send them back, yes, but only if it is safe to send them back (which in the case of the US with I assume most of the illegal immigrants coming Mexico then yeah its safe) but the country also has a responsibility to care for them if they are sick or injured on the basis that it is human rights that we are talking about here, they apply to everyone in a State regardless of who they are or why they are there.

Under that thinking, Gayer, the state could charge you for that trespasser's broken leg, since it happened on your property.

The rules for States and the rules for individuals are not exactly the same. Individuals are not expected to do the same humanitarian actions as States as because States have different powers and resources than individuals do. The law should not force an individual to directly pay for another person's injury or illness, even if it occurs on their own property, but the law should require that all pay indirectly for the healthcare of all peoples that are in the country they are in.


But anyway, can we all agree now that healthcare is a human right and not a privilege?

The UN does call it one and my country signed off on it, so yes... despite the fact I disagree. ;D

Another thread solved by Gayer!!
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theonlydann

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #214 on: February 07, 2009, 01:03:15 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

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cbarnett97

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #215 on: February 07, 2009, 01:04:48 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.
Maybe the UN should come after us with their army  ::)
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Ravenwood240

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #216 on: February 07, 2009, 01:05:00 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D
Belief gets in the way of learning.  If you believe something, you've closed your mind to any further thought.  I know some things, little things, not the nine million names of God.

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theonlydann

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #217 on: February 07, 2009, 01:05:34 PM »
Maybe the UN should come after us with their army  ::)
I lol'd

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #218 on: February 07, 2009, 01:11:47 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D

haha

although the US ignoring international law is no laughing matter  >:(
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theonlydann

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #219 on: February 07, 2009, 01:19:15 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D

haha

although the US ignoring international law is no laughing matter  >:(
International law is stupid. USA! USA! USA!

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Ravenwood240

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #220 on: February 07, 2009, 01:20:48 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D

haha

although the US ignoring international law is no laughing matter  >:(

To be honest, I sometimes wonder why the UN is in New York at all.  Look up UN rent payments in arrears...

How come they haven't been foreclosed on?
Belief gets in the way of learning.  If you believe something, you've closed your mind to any further thought.  I know some things, little things, not the nine million names of God.

(Paraphased from R.A. Heinlein's "Time Enough For Love.")

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #221 on: February 07, 2009, 01:27:26 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D

haha

although the US ignoring international law is no laughing matter  >:(

To be honest, I sometimes wonder why the UN is in New York at all.  Look up UN rent payments in arrears...

How come they haven't been foreclosed on?

Because it'd cause more trouble than its worth?
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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theonlydann

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #222 on: February 07, 2009, 01:28:03 PM »
the UN is failure personified. They can't even top the USA from invading a country for no reason at all.

Of course they can't top it... but who could?

 ;D ;D ;D

haha

although the US ignoring international law is no laughing matter  >:(

To be honest, I sometimes wonder why the UN is in New York at all.  Look up UN rent payments in arrears...

How come they haven't been foreclosed on?

Because it'd cause more trouble than its worth?
it would be silly.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #223 on: February 09, 2009, 08:44:36 AM »
The US already has free health care.

- It's illegal for emergency rooms to turn you away.

- There's no such thing as debtor's prison.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 09:14:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Cinlef

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #224 on: February 09, 2009, 10:48:12 AM »
The US already has free health care.

- It's illegal for emergency rooms to turn you away.

- There's no such thing as debtor's prison.

Seriously Tom? Your going to maintain this is equivalent to free gov provided health care?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #225 on: February 09, 2009, 12:01:40 PM »
Quote
Seriously Tom? Your going to maintain this is equivalent to free gov provided health care?

A bemused
Cinlef

The point is that if you truly need healthcare it's already there for you no matter what your financial situation is and no matter how many unpaid medical bills you have. No one is being left to die based on their financial situation. And that's all that really matters.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 12:10:51 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #226 on: February 09, 2009, 12:12:50 PM »
Tom Tom Tom....being able to go to an emergency room doesn't equal having healthcare....
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #227 on: February 09, 2009, 12:19:19 PM »
Tom Tom Tom....being able to go to an emergency room doesn't equal having healthcare....

Emergency room and life-threatening health care is really the only health care you truly need at a basic level. In that sense I would say that we already have access to health care. Anything else is a privilege.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 01:07:24 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #228 on: February 09, 2009, 12:25:18 PM »
Well the kind of healthcare that is considered a right by the UDHR composes a lot more than emergency care so its not a privilege.
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #229 on: February 09, 2009, 01:04:24 PM »
Well the kind of healthcare that is considered a right by the UDHR composes a lot more than emergency care so its not a privilege.

I don't see why we should have to pay for someone's non-emergency arm rash treatments. We're already paying for actual life threatening situations and that's enough. If they want anything else they can pay for it themselves.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 01:14:08 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Proleg

Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #230 on: February 09, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »
We've already placed Tom as a pseudo-libertarian. What are some of your other stances, Tom? As the most respected member here, we are interested in your informed opinions.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #231 on: February 09, 2009, 03:46:36 PM »
Well the kind of healthcare that is considered a right by the UDHR composes a lot more than emergency care so its not a privilege.

I don't see why we should have to pay for someone's non-emergency arm rash treatments. We're already paying for actual life threatening situations and that's enough. If they want anything else they can pay for it themselves.

I love you Tom....
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #232 on: February 09, 2009, 04:00:50 PM »
Well the kind of healthcare that is considered a right by the UDHR composes a lot more than emergency care so its not a privilege.

I don't see why we should have to pay for someone's non-emergency arm rash treatments. We're already paying for actual life threatening situations and that's enough. If they want anything else they can pay for it themselves.
You are the most conservative-independent-democrat ive ever seen.
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #233 on: February 09, 2009, 04:06:43 PM »
He's anything you need him to be.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Is Healthcare a right or a priviledge?
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2009, 09:39:15 PM »
Except for a sex machine :(
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If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
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there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?