Human understanding of 'phyisics'

  • 19 Replies
  • 5136 Views
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« on: June 17, 2006, 04:53:32 PM »
No matter what 'alternitive science' Anyone could ever post, noone seems to take into consideration that the 'laws' of physics as we know them may not exist outside our knowladge. prehaps becuase they are too far away to encounter or prehaps we dont have the capeability to understand them.  
A thought for you:
In an infinate universe anything is possible. therefore everything is possible, and anyhting is probable.

just because human understanding will not allow us to see it, that does not meen that everything we believe is not true, nor that it is true. prehaps everything is either true or false as we know it. Prehaps where some of us see a round earth, others see flat. Prehaps we see both at the same time and more, but our intelligence is limited to how much of the information we understand.Prehaps none of what our limited senses see is truely there.
humans were not made to be intelligent. That much is aparent from the state of the world. Intelligence is something that should not be attributed to any human.
All science is flawed and useless when talking about something outside of human understanding.Within human understanding, it only applies to our limited capacity to apply it to knowladge, and may not even exist.

any thoughts?
or am i officialy sane in my insanity, or insane in my sanity?
Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679

IM Insane?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 06:38:28 AM »
guess im insane then
Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 02:19:08 PM »
as far as we can tell there ain't nothing smarter than us.


And if you look out your window, and see all the houses, it becomes evident that we are, in fact, intelligent.


and yes in an infinite universe everything could be possible, including a pocket of the universe where the laws of physics do not apply.


However that does raise the question of: If the universe is infinite does that mean that the improbable happens somewhere, or can each point be considered indiviually and therefore the most probably always happens


By the simple fact that we have A) life on this planet, B) Intelligent life on this planet, it means that the improbable does happen somewhere.

however life perhaps has a rather well defined probability - could the existence of the laws of physics have a defined probability, or is it so unlikely that it is an undefined probablility, such that it doesn't happen anywhere.


Also to the statement that we are flawed, if your religious that is by design, god is prefect, but he made an imperfect being - as such, if a perfect being can make an imperfect being, how can an imperfect being ever make anything that is perfect?

if you aren't religious, then it is simply because of probabilities, that you will eventually drop a zero somewhere in your brain and mess up.

*

James

  • Flat Earther
  • The Elder Ones
  • 5613
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2006, 02:22:24 PM »
The universe isn't infinite in my opinion, but it doesn't have bounds. Here's how. We all know that the Earth and other celestial objects are moving constantly in one direction. Isn't it conceivable that eventually the Earth will go in a sort 4 dimensional circle and retrace its steps, so to speak?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2006, 02:25:48 PM »
i beleive you are refering to the donut universe, where it is, suprisingly, in the shape of a donut.


also superstring predicts many many dimensions, however they are thought to be too small for us to comprehend - the best analogy is to think of a tight rope. us on the tight rope only see backwards and forwards - a flea also see's a thickness and a roundness to the tightrope.

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2006, 02:26:25 PM »
and may i add that the insane rarely to never think they are insane...

*

James

  • Flat Earther
  • The Elder Ones
  • 5613
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2006, 02:32:37 PM »
Quote from: "DrQuak"
i beleive you are refering to the donut universe, where it is, suprisingly, in the shape of a donut.


also superstring predicts many many dimensions, however they are thought to be too small for us to comprehend - the best analogy is to think of a tight rope. us on the tight rope only see backwards and forwards - a flea also see's a thickness and a roundness to the tightrope.


That's exactly what I mean. I've adapted it to fit Flat Earth Theory - we wouldn't need "sideways" looping, just "forwards", since that's the only direction the Earth is going.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2006, 04:56:31 PM »
hmm you know when you state it like that it makes me think of all the introductions to quantum theory and relativity, when they introduce it to you, you only do it in one dimension, then once you get that they bring in the other 2 (or 12 or so if your doing super string ;-) )


hmmm


but anyway a circular universe is perhaps unlikely - however we ain't ever going to prove it so it is rather academic


hopefully there is an afterlife and we will all get answers to these unsolvable questions.

*

James

  • Flat Earther
  • The Elder Ones
  • 5613
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2006, 05:03:50 PM »
Oh, I wasn't describing it in one direction because it was beginnery or anything, it just seems extra directional looping would be redundant.

By the way DrQuak, are you FE or RE?
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2006, 05:17:28 PM »
hehe RE but i like playing devils advocate =)

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2006, 05:18:02 PM »
and i didn't mean to infer that you were trying to make it sound beginnery it just made me think of it...

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2006, 11:41:53 PM »
Its a very unsatisfactory question because, to put it blunt, I doubt we could ever know.

Some believe that reality exists only in our minds, while others believe the complete opposite.  I believe, as I say my belief of the Earth is, that we exist on our own world so-to-speak.  We stopped living in the natural world when we started inventing everything around us and communicated our ideas with language.  We literally built our own plane of existance.

In any case, Earth as it were could be a small outlier amoung the data of the universe.  Just as a bottling company could send an entire shipment of bottles that have been chipped or you could buy a carton of eggs where all the eggs are bad, Earth could have been the same thing.  If you think about how large the universe is, this does not seem at all very unlikely.  Humans seem to be a mistake; an "accident" so far as reason goes!
ttp://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/search.php

"Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 03:49:05 AM »
If you beleive in god - who is perfect - there can't be mistakes, by the definition of what he is.


if there isn't a god  there truely can't be a mistake - because the universe in inanimate, it can't make decisions nevermind wrong ones. And if we are part of nature, how can anything we produce be unnatural? A turtle produces its own shell, does that make the shell unnatural?  apes use sticks to "fish" for termites, does that make the stick unnatural?


we cannot possibly create something that is not there - we are bound by the laws of physics, which are the laws of nature is more of a sense than any pansy hippy view of it.


and i apologize for any spelling mistakes i don't have on my glasses and i can barely see the screen.

?

joffenz

  • The Elder Ones
  • 1272
Re: Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2006, 10:31:44 AM »
Quote from: "Beeper"
A thought for you:
In an infinate universe anything is possible. therefore everything is possible, and anyhting is probable.


Nonsense.

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2006, 05:05:51 PM »
well technically, there is a finite possibility that a 1 kilo rock will appear 100 meters in the air, there is a 0.99999999999999 (etc) probabiliy that it won't though


but somewher in the universe a rrock will levitate up to 100 meters before it realises what is happening and falls back down again.... one day it will probably happen somewhere on earth.... and then someone is going to get hit on the head with a damned heavy rock and be very confused....

?

helios2006

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2006, 05:34:59 AM »
ive ben wondering about how we seem to think of the shape of the universe if its infinite im really not sure if this is about the possibilities or size or both how ever is its eather one how can any thing infinite have a shape think of a triangle that is infinite it could not be measured and ther for not have a shape if the infinite has to do with possibilites we could never come up with the right one hmm i guess i just dont under stand this hole shape and ifinite thing some one explain please

?

cadmium_blimp

  • 1499
  • funny, you thought I'd convert, didn't you?
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2006, 07:59:11 AM »
Quote from: "DrQuak"
and may i add that the insane rarely to never think they are insane...

How do you know that's not just because they know that people who are insane don't think they are insane so they obviously can't be insane?

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2006, 10:28:05 AM »
Quote from: "helios2006"
ive ben wondering about how we seem to think of the shape of the universe if its infinite im really not sure if this is about the possibilities or size or both how ever is its eather one how can any thing infinite have a shape think of a triangle that is infinite it could not be measured and ther for not have a shape if the infinite has to do with possibilites we could never come up with the right one hmm i guess i just dont under stand this hole shape and ifinite thing some one explain please


First of all, please try to organize your thoughts into sentences that are separated by some sort of punctuation.

Now to answer your question, when people talk about the shape of the universe, they are really referring to its topology (sometimes they may be referring to a quantity called its metric but that is not as relevant for what you're getting at).

The topology of the universe can be classified into a few categories.  On the highest level, it could be open -- meaning that there exist arbitrarily long straight paths -- or it could be closed, meaning there are all straight-line paths eventually get you back where you started.  Ellipsoids and toruses, for example, have closed topologies.  The difference between an ellipsoid and a torus is that on a torus there is a closed path (a path that runs into itself eventually) that cannot be shrunk down  arbitrarily, whereas on an ellipse, any closed path can be made smaller and smaller as much as you like.  (A torus, btw, is basically a donut.  It has three kinds of closed paths -- those that go through the hole, those that go around it, and those that avoid it completely.  Paths that go through or around the hole obviously cannot be shrunken arbitrarily, but paths that avoid the hole can).  This difference between toruses and ellipsoids is called the genus of the surface -- it refers to the number of "handles" that the surface has (e.g. a coffee mug has genus 1, whereas a beach ball has genus 0.)

By contrast, planes, paraboloids, and hyperboloids all have open topologies.  If you travel on a straight line on any of these surfaces, you never get back to where you started.  Since these surfaces are not closed, it is not meaningful to talk about their genus.

Lastly, there's this notion of a metric -- a special kind of object called a "tensor" that measures the distance between nearby points.  Whereas the topology of a surface does not change if you bend the surface without breaking it, once you've specified the metric, no bending is allowed -- the metric truly describes the exact shape (i.e. curvature) of the surface everywhere.

So basically, when people talk about the shape of the universe, they're either talking about its topology or its metric, or both.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Re: Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2006, 10:06:18 PM »
Quote from: "Beeper"
No matter what 'alternitive science' Anyone could ever post, noone seems to take into consideration that the 'laws' of physics as we know them may not exist outside our knowladge. prehaps becuase they are too far away to encounter or prehaps we dont have the capeability to understand them.  
A thought for you:
In an infinate universe anything is possible. therefore everything is possible, and anyhting is probable.

just because human understanding will not allow us to see it, that does not meen that everything we believe is not true, nor that it is true. prehaps everything is either true or false as we know it. Prehaps where some of us see a round earth, others see flat. Prehaps we see both at the same time and more, but our intelligence is limited to how much of the information we understand.Prehaps none of what our limited senses see is truely there.
humans were not made to be intelligent. That much is aparent from the state of the world. Intelligence is something that should not be attributed to any human.
All science is flawed and useless when talking about something outside of human understanding.Within human understanding, it only applies to our limited capacity to apply it to knowladge, and may not even exist.

any thoughts?
or am i officialy sane in my insanity, or insane in my sanity?


Because the Universe looks the same in all directions and the cosmic microwave background radition is also the same in all directions, scientists have found it safe to assume that the rest of the universe indeed follows the same laws as ones here. Since it all looks the same. That is the basis premise of the idea. For more answers to this question, read about (yet again), Inflationary Cosmology. The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene is a good one.

Human understanding of 'phyisics'
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2006, 10:13:25 PM »
Quote from: "helios2006"
ive ben wondering about how we seem to think of the shape of the universe if its infinite im really not sure if this is about the possibilities or size or both how ever is its eather one how can any thing infinite have a shape think of a triangle that is infinite it could not be measured and ther for not have a shape if the infinite has to do with possibilites we could never come up with the right one hmm i guess i just dont under stand this hole shape and ifinite thing some one explain please


There are 3 contenders for the shape of the universe, and they depend on the amount of matter within it as to what shape it is. This amount is called the critical number and it is based on the velocity of the expansion of the universe.

If there is more then the critical amount, Then the universe is most likely spherical and will have a positive curvature.

Less then the critical amount would make it curved like the shape of a sattle(hard to picture a curve like this in 3 dimensions). It would have a negative curvature.

If there is exactly the critical amount, the universe would be flat. This is the leading theory at the moment from new experiments and calculations from those working on... inflationary cosmology (i can't help mentioning it, it's not my fault people keep bringing up topics it covers). Space it thought to act much like some video games. where if you go off one edge of the screen, you appear on the other. So there is no edge to talk about really. The "shape" of space isn't something even most scientists can picture well. It makes more sense in the mathmatics however.