Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.

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preco

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #210 on: August 22, 2009, 06:47:36 PM »

I think the biggest irony is that some guy hundreds of years ago, named Galileo, went out of his way to disprove a flat earth. And he used better scientific examples than these guys.

And then the catholic church placed him under arrest for heresy. 



BTW, Gallileo wasn't arrested for saying that the Earth is round (everybody knew that already).  He was arrested for saying that the Earth went around the sun.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Church_controversy
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.[92]

Sorry, my bad.  Turns out the greeks proved the Earth round circa 4th c. BCE, which became universal knowledge (the eurocentric "universal").  but then Christians denied it and destroyed as much earlier enlightened knowledge as they could, hence the "Dark Ages".  Unfortunately, some would prefer that the dark ages continued on forever...

But I do wonder about my question: Is there anyone who actual believes this drivel that has no religious motivations? there is probably a thread on it, guess i'll do some searching...





Come on. Haven't you worked these guy's out yet. It's purely & simply a debate. None of them actually believe the Earth is flat. When they say they do that is all part of the role play!
It makes for a pretty interesting forum.

Don't tell me what I believe.


Sorry! Am I spoiling it for you?

Spoiling what? It's hard enough for us to get people to take our message seriously without ignorant people claiming that it's all a "role play."

You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #211 on: August 22, 2009, 08:24:28 PM »
You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish ad hominem attack?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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preco

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #212 on: August 22, 2009, 10:29:57 PM »
You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish ad hominem attack?


Yes! The fact that you are joining in the role play!

Prove to me that you are not role playing!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #213 on: August 22, 2009, 10:41:11 PM »
You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish ad hominem attack?


Yes! The fact that you are joining in the role play!

Prove to me that you are not role playing!


Why would I want to prove that?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Proleg

Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #214 on: August 23, 2009, 09:10:20 AM »
Doesn't this accusation constitute some sort of fallacy?

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preco

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #215 on: August 23, 2009, 09:33:45 AM »
You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish ad hominem attack?


Yes! The fact that you are joining in the role play!

Prove to me that you are not role playing!


Why would I want to prove that?  ???

Because the absence of any real belief renders all of the arguments for FE null & void!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #216 on: August 23, 2009, 10:33:49 AM »
You don't believe FET! You're just playing the role of someone who believes!

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish ad hominem attack?


Yes! The fact that you are joining in the role play!

Prove to me that you are not role playing!


Why would I want to prove that?  ???

Because the absence of any real belief renders all of the arguments for FE null & void!

Can you prove that nobody believes this?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Anduie

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #217 on: August 23, 2009, 10:43:58 AM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #218 on: August 23, 2009, 10:46:27 AM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

I don't know.  I thought maybe preco did!
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Raa

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #219 on: August 23, 2009, 12:37:14 PM »
you're all afraid to believe in anything by yourself.
Everything, is in EMBRYO, not in mathematics. 
Please look at the 1/4 moon when it's around at noon ; We cannot see anything between it and the sun.

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #220 on: August 23, 2009, 12:43:06 PM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

Okay, humor me for a minute. Let's suppose I have the inclination to "prove it." How would I go about doing this?
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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Raa

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #221 on: August 23, 2009, 12:45:15 PM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.
Everything, is in EMBRYO, not in mathematics. 
Please look at the 1/4 moon when it's around at noon ; We cannot see anything between it and the sun.

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Anduie

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #222 on: August 23, 2009, 01:06:02 PM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

Okay, humor me for a minute. Let's suppose I have the inclination to "prove it." How would I go about doing this?

That's what I just asked. The only answer I can think of at the moment is a history of adherence to the beliefs and philosophy, which is still pretty flimsy.

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #223 on: August 23, 2009, 01:07:36 PM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

Okay, humor me for a minute. Let's suppose I have the inclination to "prove it." How would I go about doing this?

That's what I just asked. The only answer I can think of at the moment is a history of adherence to the beliefs and philosophy, which is still pretty flimsy.

Oh, sorry, I misread your question. It seems we both agree.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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Raa

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #224 on: August 23, 2009, 02:00:11 PM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

Okay, humor me for a minute. Let's suppose I have the inclination to "prove it." How would I go about doing this?

That's what I just asked. The only answer I can think of at the moment is a history of adherence to the beliefs and philosophy, which is still pretty flimsy.

Oh, sorry, I misread your question. It seems we both agree.
only belief can end a written conversation
Everything, is in EMBRYO, not in mathematics. 
Please look at the 1/4 moon when it's around at noon ; We cannot see anything between it and the sun.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #225 on: August 23, 2009, 02:27:38 PM »
Can you prove that nobody believes this?

How would you go about proving that a person believes or does not believe something other than through honest consistency?

Okay, humor me for a minute. Let's suppose I have the inclination to "prove it." How would I go about doing this?

That's what I just asked. The only answer I can think of at the moment is a history of adherence to the beliefs and philosophy, which is still pretty flimsy.


This is also the point Roundy is making. On FES, we have our own name for disputing someone's stated beliefs without reason, called the 'George Scott Fallacy':


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=21811.msg439936#msg439936

From now on, I dub that particular avenue of argument the George Scott Fallacy, after a particular corrsepondant to George Airy who complained of Samuel Rowbotham:
Quote from: George Scott, on Doctor Parallax
I do not for one moment believe that he believes his own theory.

Just drop it would you? Accusing somebody of not believing what they say is not only pointless, in that it can never be truly verified or falsfied; and evasive, in that it distracts from the true contentions of the discussion; but it is also both defamatory (it imples that the subject is a liar) and mildly offensive (it attempts to belittle the sincere opinion of the subject).
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Pete

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #226 on: August 23, 2009, 06:05:34 PM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.


You are clearly insane.

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #227 on: August 23, 2009, 07:13:41 PM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.


You are clearly insane.

"Not I!" said the duck.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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markjo

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #228 on: August 23, 2009, 08:50:18 PM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.

Belief without proof (or evidence) is called faith.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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shades

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #229 on: August 24, 2009, 10:30:44 AM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.

If this is what you think, then I have one word for you: Christianity.
It's not spam, it's my catchphrase!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #230 on: August 24, 2009, 10:39:39 AM »
once you believe, you don't have to prove.
you believed because you saw the proof.
but then proof is not a requirement for belief.

If this is what you think, then I have one word for you: Christianity.

Raa is, in fact, Christian.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Beafy

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #231 on: August 24, 2009, 11:19:02 AM »
Mr. the Great, I am not impressed by your analysis.

Supposing for a moment that the government does guard it solely by posting men on it, these men are 150 in the air.  From that hight they can see at least 15 miles in every relevant direction (this of course is calculating using the RE model... on a FE they might see farther).  Thus you can cover the whole wall with just 78,225/30 = 2608 men.

You can decrease it further by giving them snowmobiles and having them ride between waypoints.  If they can ride 10 mph and still keep an eye on things, then in one hour one sixth the previous number -- or 652 men -- can cover the wall in an hour.  In fact, doing this gives them better coverage, since this way their 15-mile-radius field of vision doesn't have any holes.

Now take the terrain into account -- much of the Ice Wall is probably unapproachable except by air -- and you can trim down the numbers even further.

Strategically locate some helicopter pads (on the wall or floating) and you can have heavy armament on the scene in thirty minutes.  Assuming an Apache helicopter can fly 150 mph, in that time they could fly 75 miles, so we would need to place pads every 150 miles, requiring 521 pads.  Obviously, if you don't insist on thirty-minute response time, you can do with fewer.  Don't forget that the watchmen can see 15 miles away from the wall, so thirty minutes should be more than enough to intercept any boat that tries to approach, snap pictures, and sail to safety.

Of course, this is all assuming that the only means our governments have of detecting trespassers is by looking with their eyes.  We're neglecting radar and high-altitude spyplanes, probably with infrared cameras.

We're also neglecting intelligence.  Anybody who wants to travel to the ice wall has to leave from someplace, and these someplaces can be watched by agents as well.  There aren't too many good places to set on on such a journey from.  Then, such expeditions would also have to be planned, and agents could get words about them before they even start.  Once they've started, agents could monitor radio transmissions.  If they can discover tresspassers a thousand miles away instead of only fifteen, then maybe they don't need so big a force as you say.

Basically, your objection is a straw man at best.

You're lack of military knowledge insults my eyes.

In arctic climates it is not a clear as day, the maximum rage you could possible see in a day is 500M, and thats being generious, i already worked out how many men it would take to guard the beloved ice wall...


Well it turns out that youre all wrong, laughing at many of your posts with my company commander, you are all a laughing stock to the light infantry in the UK, but we calculated the amount of men needed to guard Salisbury, and then made it into and antartic figure.

So say you needed equipment, it would need to be very advanced, and essential, not only that, but all the guards would have to be paid enough to do their jobs and let home without even one of them telling anyone, now before i get onto the HQ of the guards ill put up some figures...

The maximum hours a soldier under Very extreme/stressful conditions is 28 hours ... this is before death or fainting

a team working in a stressful condition would have to be no less than 18.
The maximum range of working on an arctic climate with arctic weather is 500M

Now 1 mile = 609 Miters
The circumference of the earth is 78,225 miles
so you would need a need 2 teams working 12 hours each of 18 every 500M to keep it secure.
78,225 miles into miters is 47,639,025
Now 47,639,025 divided by 500 is 95 278.05
95 278.05 x 36 (Men) = 3 430 009.8 (men)

So yes, you would NEED THREEMILLIONFOURHUNDREDANDTHIRTYTHOUSANDANDNINEPOINTEIGHT men to guard your magical ice wall, enjoy.

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Jack

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #232 on: August 24, 2009, 01:11:44 PM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #233 on: August 24, 2009, 01:12:54 PM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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Beafy

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #234 on: August 24, 2009, 04:14:34 PM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

Thats because things that dont exist cant/dont need to be guarded.

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #235 on: August 24, 2009, 04:21:39 PM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

Thats because things that dont exist cant/dont need to be guarded.

You mean like your use of apostrophes?
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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Beafy

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #236 on: August 24, 2009, 04:26:02 PM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

Thats because things that dont exist cant/dont need to be guarded.

You mean like your use of apostrophes?

Indeed, because they dont exist you cant edit them, and they dont need to be guarded... unless there like, on a bill of human rights, or something....

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W

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #237 on: August 25, 2009, 03:10:00 AM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

Thats because things that dont exist cant/dont need to be guarded.

You mean like your use of apostrophes?

Indeed, because they dont exist you cant edit them, and they dont need to be guarded... unless there like, on a bill of human rights, or something....

Are you claiming that you wrote the bill of rights? I don't believe you. In any case, the bill of rights has no apostrophes.
If you say that the earth is flat, you are destroying centuries of evolution.

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Beafy

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #238 on: August 25, 2009, 09:33:27 AM »
The ice wall does not need to be guarded.

Thats because things that dont exist cant/dont need to be guarded.

You mean like your use of apostrophes?

Indeed, because they dont exist you cant edit them, and they dont need to be guarded... unless there like, on a bill of human rights, or something....

Are you claiming that you wrote the bill of rights? I don't believe you. In any case, the bill of rights has no apostrophes.

How in gods bad name did you work out that im suggesting i wrote the bill of rights, OH youre a FE believer, in that case, the moon is made out of cheese, and the anti-moon is made from one giant Dorito, and youre purposely avoiding my main question.

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LBtheWise

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Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.
« Reply #239 on: August 25, 2009, 11:53:06 AM »
the ice wall only seems long. However, if you think about the ice wall being in a 12th dimension (as it is) then it all makes sense. In the 12th dimension, long things such as the ice wall are intertwined with reality making it infact much shorter in reality. Therefore only a few men are able to guard the entire ice wall, My guess would be about 7 people.

7 people given minimum wage at 8.25/hr times 8 hours a day, minus one hour for lunch is 404.25$ which is easily affordable by the US government to keep this conspiracy valid

Frogger