How Life Began

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Moonlit

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How Life Began
« on: January 14, 2009, 10:42:39 AM »
This is an interesting article I just found on Fox's news site.  I thought some of you may be interested.  :)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479777,00.html
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 11:47:21 AM »
This is an interesting article I just found on Fox's news site.  I thought some of you may be interested.  :)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479777,00.html

I saw that, scary notion that soon we may be able to play god even more.  Can you imagine us creating our own lifeforms?

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 11:47:28 AM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

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Moonlit

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 11:48:02 AM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 11:58:05 AM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

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Moonlit

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 12:00:33 PM »
Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

>:( I don't watch Fox.  Actually, I rarely watch the news at all so that's why I'm behind.
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 12:12:17 PM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

Well if aids was created to get rid of gay people then maybe he did. Coming from their point of view
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:13:59 PM by cbarnett97 »
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Moonlit

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 12:13:23 PM »
Quote fail? ???
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 12:14:12 PM »
Oops, Fixed
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 12:28:59 PM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

Well if aids was created to get rid of gay people then maybe he did. Coming from their point of view

If it was made to kill anyone it is blacks. They are affected more strongly by AIDS, and die of it earlier.

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Bob28

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 12:33:32 PM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

the article said that it just came out in some journal last week, and i've never heard of this either.  can you show me articles from other news sources reporting this has been happening for years?  finally i can put the burden of proof on someone else cause they made the claim!!!  seriously though not saying your wrong i've just never heard about it.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 12:35:59 PM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

Well if aids was created to get rid of gay people then maybe he did. Coming from their point of view

If it was made to kill anyone it is blacks. They are affected more strongly by AIDS, and die of it earlier.
That is not what the religious nuts say. Though I have heard brom some victicrats that aids was released by the CIA to kill black people but who knows.
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 12:41:57 PM »
Wow fox picked up on something that has been happening for years.

I haven't heard anything about it. :-\

Can't blame you, especially if you only watch fox. ;)

It is brought up in most evolution debates that we can create self replicating RNA. Which is what DNA usually uses to communicate with the rest of the cell. It is translated into proteins, and performs lots of duties.

HIV is made of RNA instead of DNA and uses a dormant part of our cells that turned RNA into DNA to invade us. We don't use this function at all, so creationists must believe god created that hole for AIDS.

Well if aids was created to get rid of gay people then maybe he did. Coming from their point of view

If it was made to kill anyone it is blacks. They are affected more strongly by AIDS, and die of it earlier.
That is not what the religious nuts say. Though I have heard brom some victicrats that aids was released by the CIA to kill black people but who knows.

They are more vulnerable because they group near it, and if people in a village were made to die more quickly from it, they would have less chance spreading it to everyone else. It makes sense really.


@dude above, look up self replicating amino acids, same basic principle one step down. It's really no big deal.

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MrKappa

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2009, 07:59:50 AM »
Very bizarre... I would think that energy and matter are bound... Why shouldn't energy, matter and life be bound as well...

This is rather loony... But it certainly is inspiring to think that pure energy can take on complex forms...





However considering that fox article holds says this...

""It kind of blew me away," said team member Tracey Lincoln of the Scripps Research Institute, who is working on her Ph.D. "What we have is non-living, but we've been able to show that it has some life-like properties, and that was extremely interesting.""


I don't think it's such a loony conclusion after all...

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2009, 05:44:36 PM »
I knew that we'd find empirical evidence of abiogenesis being possible.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 06:25:27 PM »
I knew that we'd find empirical evidence of abiogenesis being possible.
We haven't.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2009, 06:41:56 PM »
This is pretty close, chief.  The inability to create (from nothing) replicating proteins that competed for survival was the main objection to abiogenesis.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2009, 07:15:29 PM »
This is pretty close, chief.  The inability to create (from nothing) replicating proteins that competed for survival was the main objection to abiogenesis.
Close, but no Cigar.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2009, 07:18:26 PM »
This is pretty close, chief.  The inability to create (from nothing) replicating proteins that competed for survival was the main objection to abiogenesis.
Close, but no Cigar.

Go away, troll.

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2009, 07:39:25 PM »
This is pretty close, chief.  The inability to create (from nothing) replicating proteins that competed for survival was the main objection to abiogenesis.
Close, but no Cigar.
Oh rly?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2009, 07:48:28 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2009, 09:22:15 PM »
This is pretty close, chief.  The inability to create (from nothing) replicating proteins that competed for survival was the main objection to abiogenesis.
Close, but no Cigar.

Go away, troll.
Thats not trolling. I used a common phrase to say something.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2009, 09:23:26 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
Thats really deep dude. That will be a good comfort in HELL.

This message brought to you by the little troll in my brain.
I hate myself for coming here

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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2009, 01:02:09 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
I've dealt with worse.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2009, 01:36:53 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
Okay, show me some proof I'm wrong.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2009, 11:55:11 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
Okay, show me some proof I'm wrong.
Ok:
Here:

Please note that every part of this has been replicated in a lab: which means that there is absolutely no supposition, it has complete agreement with reality.

The biggest problem about Abiogenesis is not that we don't have any idea how life could ahve got started, it is that we have too many and all of them are plausible and as far as we know possible. However, this is the most likely way we know because it has been tested in labs to the point where the whole process has been observed, it is one of the simplest methods and that it does not require anything out of the ordinary to occur (we know that there are undersea vents called black smokers, we know that these chemicals did exist on primordial Earth because we can find direct evidence of them in the rocks - and we can even see them in location not on Earth too).
Everyday household experimentation.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2009, 11:58:13 PM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
Okay, show me some proof I'm wrong.
Ok:
Here:

Please note that every part of this has been replicated in a lab: which means that there is absolutely no supposition, it has complete agreement with reality.

The biggest problem about Abiogenesis is not that we don't have any idea how life could ahve got started, it is that we have too many and all of them are plausible and as far as we know possible. However, this is the most likely way we know because it has been tested in labs to the point where the whole process has been observed, it is one of the simplest methods and that it does not require anything out of the ordinary to occur (we know that there are undersea vents called black smokers, we know that these chemicals did exist on primordial Earth because we can find direct evidence of them in the rocks - and we can even see them in location not on Earth too).
Abiogenesis is the theory to explain the random creation of life. Unless you can show me video or phots of millions of years ago when the first life forms supposedly randomly appeared, it will never be proven.
I hate myself for coming here

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2009, 01:03:13 AM »
When beliefs are based in emotion, they are often persistent even after proof is offered. The longer the delusion, the harder it is to break. Do not recommend bothering with Kingman.
Okay, show me some proof I'm wrong.
Ok:
Here:

Please note that every part of this has been replicated in a lab: which means that there is absolutely no supposition, it has complete agreement with reality.

The biggest problem about Abiogenesis is not that we don't have any idea how life could ahve got started, it is that we have too many and all of them are plausible and as far as we know possible. However, this is the most likely way we know because it has been tested in labs to the point where the whole process has been observed, it is one of the simplest methods and that it does not require anything out of the ordinary to occur (we know that there are undersea vents called black smokers, we know that these chemicals did exist on primordial Earth because we can find direct evidence of them in the rocks - and we can even see them in location not on Earth too).
Abiogenesis is the theory to explain the random creation of life. Unless you can show me video or phots of millions of years ago when the first life forms supposedly randomly appeared, it will never be proven.
It has been replicated in a lab, and in less than billions of years. This means that this process is quick and is easy to produce. All the processes are known and do really occur, even outside the lab.

We know that lipid bilayers form. Our cells are lipid bilayers. Ever blown a soap bubble, that is also a lipid bilayer. So we know that this bit does occur. The chemistry of this is quite simple to explain. At one end of these fatty acids repels water and attracts oily molecules (like fatty acids), the other end is attracted to water and is repelled from oily molecules (like fatty acids). This causes them to line up with the water attractive ends outside and the oily attracted ends towards each other (as these molecules are oily). as these are flexable, they can flap around, but then if one part is moved near another part, they become attracted and cause the whole thing to curl up into a ball. You then have the shape and basic structure of a cell. A Lipid Bilayer ball - A vesicle.

Lipid bilayers can be broken, just as in the video (if you are really careful you can do it with soap bubbles. The technique I use is to hit them with a sharp blast of air, but not too hard. If you get it right (it takes some practice) you can break a bubble into multiple smaller bubbles (and besides it look very cool when you do this as it is like a martial arts move that you need to do, so it looks like you punch a bubble in half without popping it).

The small organic molecules have been shown to pass through the vesicle wall, both from the inside out and the outside in.

When a vesicle meet another they merge (just try it with soap bubbles).

There are literally hundreds of different types of Nucleotides, not just the ones life as we know it uses, and all of them work in roughly the same way. They can form long chains (polymerise) and they have an opposite member that "locks onto" its opposite. We also know that they spontaneously form as we have seen them form in both the natural environment, in the lab and even in gas clouds in space. These would have existed.

Putting all this together. We know:

1) That Fatty Acid Bilayers form and divide as stated.
2) That small organic molecules including Single Nucleotides will pass through some of these Fatty Acid Bilayer membranes
3) That Nucleotides will spontaneously polymerise into chains
3) Nucleotides will attract and hold onto it's opposite type
4) These pairs of Nucleotides will break apart at higher temperatures and reform at lower temperatures
5) Nucleotide polymers will not pass through the Fatty Acid Bilayers
6) Certain Nucleotides have chemical properties beyond just forming polymers and pairs
7) We know that this can form and occur quickly and without any outside influence

All this together means that there does not need to be an outside force creating life, it can happen spontaneously using just chemistry and physics.

If the physics and chemistry that exists today existed in the past (and there is good evidence that it did), then this could have worked.

Remember the problem is not that we don't know the way that life could have formed, it is that we have too many ways that it could have formed and we are only trying to work out which one it actually took. This is just the best we currently have.

It might not ahve happened this way, and it could have happened in one of dozens of ways, it is just that this is the most likely one based on the evidecne we have at the moment.
Everyday household experimentation.

Re: How Life Began
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2009, 02:03:34 AM »
Abiogenesis is the theory to explain the random creation of life. Unless you can show me video or phots of millions of years ago when the first life forms supposedly randomly appeared, it will never be proven.
It has been replicated in a lab
Okay, did you really just say that? Show me a link to anywhere that says abiogenesis has been replicated.
I hate myself for coming here

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Raist

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Re: How Life Began
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 11:11:58 AM »
Abiogenesis is the theory to explain the random creation of life. Unless you can show me video or phots of millions of years ago when the first life forms supposedly randomly appeared, it will never be proven.
It has been replicated in a lab
Okay, did you really just say that? Show me a link to anywhere that says abiogenesis has been replicated.

Which part?