Retroreflectors on the Moon

I have a theory on this, the moon is much closer, and while orbit may be impossible, perhaps we flew a rocket as high as possible then used some sort of cannon to inbed a rover type device into the moon. this device unfolded and aimed a mirrored surface at the earth.

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He did use a machine. And that actually helps his case because why would a machine lie to him?

If the machine was distributed to the observatory by NASA or its affiliates it would.

You made a claim that the machine in question was supplied by NASA now it is your job to prove it.

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He did use a machine. And that actually helps his case because why would a machine lie to him?

If the machine was distributed to the observatory by NASA or its affiliates it would.

And what if the machine was not distributed to the observatory by NASA or its affiliates?

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And what if the machine was not distributed to the observatory by NASA or its affiliates?

Then he might have some valid evidence.

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And what if the machine was not distributed to the observatory by NASA or its affiliates?

Then he might have some valid evidence.

So Tom, who has the burden of proof in this situation?  You because you claim that the equipment may have been in the hands of NASA or one of it's associates and therefore may have been tampered with, or us because we don't believe that the equipment has been tampered with (even if NASA or one of its associates did have their hands on it)?

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So Tom, who has the burden of proof in this situation?  You because you claim that the equipment may have been in the hands of NASA or one of it's associates and therefore may have been tampered with, or us because we don't believe that the equipment has been tampered with (even if NASA or one of its associates did have their hands on it)?

This is lunar laser stuff is all your claim. It's your responsibility to certify and present documentation for the history and origin of the equipment. I don't need to collect your evidence for you.

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So Tom, who has the burden of proof in this situation?  You because you claim that the equipment may have been in the hands of NASA or one of it's associates and therefore may have been tampered with, or us because we don't believe that the equipment has been tampered with (even if NASA or one of its associates did have their hands on it)?

This is lunar laser stuff is all your claim. It's your responsibility to certify and present documentation for the history and origin of the equipment. I don't need to collect your evidence for you.

But if we were to collect the evidence that you ask for, how would you know that we haven't faked it ourselves?

Just head down to Santa Cruz Tom and you can see all of the equipment for yourself. Actually Mt. Hamilton where the observatory is specifically.

Are they going to give me the source code of their software and a full certified manifest of their equipment's origin?

If you ask them I am sure they would supply you with any information you want since it is not top secret material or anything and I am also sure that the information is readily available on the internet for the home builder

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If you ask them I am sure they would supply you with any information you want since it is not top secret material or anything and I am also sure that the information is readily available on the internet for the home builder

Where can I find their source code for their lunar ranging software on the internet, or the designs for the military grade lasers they're shooting at the moon?

The "source code" is something you can just write yourself if you know basic C++ programming

And Yes I know it is from NASA but it will give you most of the information needed to get the programming done yourself
http://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/

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If you ask them I am sure they would supply you with any information you want since it is not top secret material or anything and I am also sure that the information is readily available on the internet for the home builder

Where on the internet can I find the source code for their lunar ranging software, or the designs for the military grade lasers they're shooting at the moon?

Military grade laser?    What makes you think that observatories use military grade lasers?

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The "source code" is something you can just write yourself if you know basic C++ programming

How am I supposed to review their source code if I'm to write it myself? 

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And Yes I know it is from NASA but it will give you most of the information needed to get the programming done yourself
http://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Oh, so NASA does provide Lunar Ranging services to help observatories bounce lasers off of the moon. Whod'a thought.

You can read their code and check to see if there is anything wrong with it.

You probably won't find the code sitting on the Internet, as it's going to be incredibly bespoke. There's no point in wasting bandwidth displaying the code if nobody else can use it. If you really want to see it, go to the observatory and ask who wrote it. I'm sure they would let you view it.

And the workings of a laser are hardly top secret. The operating principles of the laser used to measure the distance to the Moon are much the same as those used to read a CD. The only real difference is the size, and the Moon laser being pulsed.

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Military grade laser?    What makes you think that observatories use military grade lasers?

Those observatories claim to be firing some of the most powerful gigawatt laser systems on earth at the moon.

Hardly something someone can build at home, or order in a catalog.

Code: [Select]

SECTION 2.1 LASER CONFIGURATION CATEGORY
========================================


LASER                     /  SPECIFICATIONS  /   DATE    /   FUTURE   /APPROX./
                          /                  /           /   CHANGES  /DATE   /
================================================================================

Type of Laser Medium      /  YG402DP         / 4-11-94   /            /       /
Energy / Pulse (mJ)       /     1500       mJ/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Pulsewidth (ps)           /      200       ps/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Beam Size                 /        7       mm/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Beam Divergence(Half Angle)     .075 microrad/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Beam Divergence Control   /   MANUAL         / 4-11-94   /            /       /
Amplitude Stability       /    +/- 7        %/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Timing Stability          /                ns/           /            /       /
Transverse Mode Structure /                cm/           /            /       /
Ranging Wavelength(s)     /      532       nm/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Repetition Rate           /      10        Hz/ 4-11-94   /            /       /
Other                     /                  /           /            /       /


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You can read their code and check to see if there is anything wrong with it.

How am I supposed to read their code when it's not available to the public?

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You probably won't find the code sitting on the Internet, as it's going to be incredibly bespoke. There's no point in wasting bandwidth displaying the code if nobody else can use it. If you really want to see it, go to the observatory and ask who wrote it. I'm sure they would let you view it.

Really? You think that whoever sold them their lunar ranging software gave them the source code as well? I don't know of many software vendors who provide the source code with their software.

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And the workings of a laser are hardly top secret. The operating principles of the laser used to measure the distance to the Moon are much the same as those used to read a CD. The only real difference is the size, and the Moon laser being pulsed.

Actually the workings of the military's gigawatt lasers are pretty secret.

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And the workings of a laser are hardly top secret. The operating principles of the laser used to measure the distance to the Moon are much the same as those used to read a CD. The only real difference is the size, and the Moon laser being pulsed.

Actually the workings of the military's gigawatt lasers are pretty secret.

Can you please cite your source where they claim to be firing gigawatt lasers at the moon?

"The laser beam. How powerful does the light beam have to be? One laser generator in use with a 3.5-meter telescope operated by the Astrophysical Research Consortium at Apache Point, near Sunspot, New Mexico, generates a peak power of a one billion watts (1 gigawatt) for a short time, but just long enough to fire off a one-inch bullet of light aimed through the telescope at the lunar surface."

And yet the University of Texas seems pretty open about their petawatt laser system:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/04/texans-build-wo.html
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~utlasers/

But I don't suppose that I would call that a DIY system.

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Can you please cite your source where they claim to be firing gigawatt lasers at the moon?

From http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Moons/TheMoon/Retroreflectors.html :

"The laser beam. How powerful does the light beam have to be? One laser generator in use with a 3.5-meter telescope operated by the Astrophysical Research Consortium at Apache Point, near Sunspot, New Mexico, generates a peak power of a one billion watts (1 gigawatt) for a short time, but just long enough to fire off a one-inch bullet of light aimed through the telescope at the lunar surface."

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The "source code" is something you can just write yourself if you know basic C++ programming

How am I supposed to review their source code if I'm to write it myself? 

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And Yes I know it is from NASA but it will give you most of the information needed to get the programming done yourself
http://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Oh, so NASA does provide Lunar Ranging equipment and services to help observatories bounce lasers off of the moon. What a coincidence. Whod'a thought.

Quote from: markjo on January 05, 2009, 07:26:06 AM

And yet the University of Texas seems pretty open about their petawatt laser system:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/04/texans-build-wo.html
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~utlasers/

But I don't suppose that I would call that a DIY system.

The University of Texas won't give you the instructions or schematics for building their petawatt laser system, especially if they're being funded by a military contract.