don't understand the conspiracy logic

in the FAQ it says the likely reason for the conspiracy is money, but who stands to gain money from this?  i dont see how the government would make anymore money by having us believe in a round earth so it can't be the government.  NASA would still be exploring space if the earth were indeed flat so i dont see how they profit from it either.  if anything it seems like the theory would be costing the government and NASA more money in coverups.

Political things do not require profits. It's important for powers to attain this round earth logic to contain our allegiance to their hollow ways.

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

Ahh, another one of these questions. Well, first off NASA wouldn't be able to explore space because the Earth would catch up to the space craft. And from that we can conclude that all of the trillions of dollars funding NASA go to building cardboard boxes. So what happens to whats left? Well it pretty obvious it goes to the people in charge, and the workers there to keep their mouths shut.

The workers don't need to be paid to keep their mouth shut. They knew that keeping secrets would be part of their job when they signed the paperwork to get their top secret clearance.

Unless they're an administrator or higher up, none of them would be able to see enough of the puzzle pieces to see a conspiracy anyway. Their roles are highly specialized, hired to go into a little white room to build a widget and put it in the box when they're done and nothing more.

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

If the worldwide belief in a round earth were to ever somehow unravel, NASA could no longer claim they are exploring space, and they'd lose all that dirty government funding.

Political things do not require profits. It's important for powers to attain this round earth logic to contain our allegiance to their hollow ways.

I support my government because the earth is round???

Quote from: grogberries on December 29, 2008, 05:49:32 PM

Political things do not require profits. It's important for powers to attain this round earth logic to contain our allegiance to their hollow ways.

I support my government because the earth is round???

Well if you found out that after all this time NASA was lying about how they were spending your tax dollars, wouldn't you be indignant at the government?  I mean, you're a Republican, aren't you?  Isn't wasteful government spending like your Kryptonite?

Quote from: Bob28 on December 29, 2008, 05:51:59 PM

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

If the worldwide belief in a round earth were to ever somehow unravel, NASA could no longer claim they are exploring space, and they'd lose all that dirty government funding.

Something tells me it would be easier to just pay people directly and lie about the federal budget than to hide the shape of the earth and create billions of dollars in fake evidence and sub-conspiracies.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on December 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM

Quote from: Bob28 on December 29, 2008, 05:51:59 PM

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

If the worldwide belief in a round earth were to ever somehow unravel, NASA could no longer claim they are exploring space, and they'd lose all that dirty government funding.

Something tells me it would be easier to just pay people directly and lie about the federal budget than to hide the shape of the earth and create billions of dollars in fake evidence and sub-conspiracies.

Well obviously they don't think like you.

Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 29, 2008, 08:16:46 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on December 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM

Quote from: Bob28 on December 29, 2008, 05:51:59 PM

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

If the worldwide belief in a round earth were to ever somehow unravel, NASA could no longer claim they are exploring space, and they'd lose all that dirty government funding.

Something tells me it would be easier to just pay people directly and lie about the federal budget than to hide the shape of the earth and create billions of dollars in fake evidence and sub-conspiracies.

Well obviously they don't think like you.

So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

NASA was originally created as a military organization with one purpose: To get to the moon at all costs, even if it meant faking it. Creating rocket technologies, or at least creating the illusion of them, was a matter of national security.

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So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

NASA was originally created as a military organization with one purpose: To get to the moon at all costs, even if it meant faking it. Creating rocket technologies, or at least creating the illusion of them, was a matter of national security.

How was it matter of national security if the flight to the moon was impossible?

How was it matter of national security if the flight to the moon was impossible?

In the 40's and 50's the nations of the world knew that the first nation to master space travel and build the rocket technology necessary to get nuclear payloads into orbit would become the dominating super power. That's the sole and only reason NASA was created.

Creating the illusion of global military superiority was and remains to this day more important than anything. It didn't matter if the technology was impossible or too difficult to create, what mattered is whether everyone else believed that the technology was possible.

Everyone knew that ICBM's would change everything about warfare. Suddenly your country can win wars without losing a single human life on your end. When you can intimidate your enemy with total annihilation at the push of a button, you are untouchable.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on December 29, 2008, 10:26:20 PM

Quote from: Perfect Circle on December 29, 2008, 08:16:46 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on December 29, 2008, 07:31:52 PM

Quote from: Bob28 on December 29, 2008, 05:51:59 PM

you really believe that them keeping us in the dark about the shape of the earth really matters to them, i just dont understand the benefit of hiding the shape of the earth

If the worldwide belief in a round earth were to ever somehow unravel, NASA could no longer claim they are exploring space, and they'd lose all that dirty government funding.

Something tells me it would be easier to just pay people directly and lie about the federal budget than to hide the shape of the earth and create billions of dollars in fake evidence and sub-conspiracies.

Well obviously they don't think like you.

So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

I don't see why your idea is more logical.  "Grasping at straws" was the phrase that occurred to me upon reading it.

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So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

NASA was originally created as a military organization with one purpose: To get to the moon at all costs, even if it meant faking it. Creating rocket technologies, or at least creating the illusion of them, was a matter of national security.

So what made Russia fake Sputnik?

And why did everyone think the earth was flat in the first place? Where's the profit going before these space agencies?

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How was it matter of national security if the flight to the moon was impossible?

In the 40's and 50's the nations of the world knew that the first nation to master space travel and build the rocket technology necessary to get nuclear payloads into orbit would become the dominating super power. That's the sole and only reason NASA was created.

Creating the illusion of global military superiority was and remains to this day more important than anything. It didn't matter if the technology was impossible or too difficult to create, what mattered is whether everyone else believed that the technology was possible.

Everyone knew that ICBM's would change everything about warfare. Suddenly your country can win wars without losing a single human life on your end. When you can intimidate your enemy with total annihilation at the push of a button, you are untouchable.

That would only be logical if USA would be the only one who knew that earth was flat and getting ICBM:s to the orbit was impossible. But Soviet union knew that because they had allready launched several satellites and to the orbit and to the moon.

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How was it matter of national security if the flight to the moon was impossible?

In the 40's and 50's the nations of the world knew that the first nation to master space travel and build the rocket technology necessary to get nuclear payloads into orbit would become the dominating super power. That's the sole and only reason NASA was created.

Creating the illusion of global military superiority was and remains to this day more important than anything. It didn't matter if the technology was impossible or too difficult to create, what mattered is whether everyone else believed that the technology was possible.

Everyone knew that ICBM's would change everything about warfare. Suddenly your country can win wars without losing a single human life on your end. When you can intimidate your enemy with total annihilation at the push of a button, you are untouchable.

But by other claims by you Tom, the US and Russia were actually secretly allies. So if they were allies, what is the motive for the competition and the "Get to the Moon at all Costs". If the only two countries that had the capability to design and build (potential) rockets that could go to the moon, and they were secretly allied, why could they not have just kept having "accidents" on the launch pads with rockets begin blown up until public demand forced them to stop.

So what made Russia fake Sputnik?

A desire for power and intimidation.

And why did everyone think the earth was flat in the first place?

They didn't. RET has been held as "common knowledge" since at least 3000 B.C.

That would only be logical if USA would be the only one who knew that earth was flat and getting ICBM:s to the orbit was impossible. But Soviet union knew that because they had allready launched several satellites and to the orbit and to the moon.

The Soviets and USA were working together from day one. Form the day they raided Hitler's rocket factories and divided up the scientists amongst themselves to the end of the Cold War, the Russians and Americans were working hand-in-hand as allies, partners, and friends. They were in on it together from the start. Only media hype portrayed them as enemies. The US government freely admits to working with Russia throughout the Cold War as friends and allies.

During the Cold War America and the Russia participated in a number of billion dollar joint space projects together: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz_Test_Project

But by other claims by you Tom, the US and Russia were actually secretly allies.

It's not my claim. It's their claim. The US and Russia claimed that they were allies and friends all throughout the Cold War. They participated in many friendly projects like the Apollo-Soyuez.

There was never any aggression between the US and Russia. The Cold War was really just a bunch of post-WWII paranoia and mobilization of defensive efforts "just in case." On the face of everything the US and Russia still worked together on many projects and actively aided each other as allies.

So if they were allies, what is the motive for the competition and the "Get to the Moon at all Costs". If the only two countries that had the capability to design and build (potential) rockets that could go to the moon, and they were secretly allied, why could they not have just kept having "accidents" on the launch pads with rockets begin blown up until public demand forced them to stop.

If they had never realized a space program or ICBM's they would have never become the untouchable powers they are today. America wouldn't be able to bully around other countries if it weren't for their its military superiority and threat of instant total annihilation.

And according to you, there wasn't a conspiracy then. Somehow. People were just wrong. Somehow.

The Ancient Greeks were wrong about the shape of the earth just like they were wrong in thinking that flies spontaneously generated from rotting meat and that epilepsy was a curse of the gods.

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So if they were allies, what is the motive for the competition and the "Get to the Moon at all Costs". If the only two countries that had the capability to design and build (potential) rockets that could go to the moon, and they were secretly allied, why could they not have just kept having "accidents" on the launch pads with rockets begin blown up until public demand forced them to stop.

If they had never realized a space program or ICBM's they would have never become the untouchable powers they are today. America wouldn't be able to bully around other countries if it weren't for their its military superiority and threat of instant total annihilation.

So spending billions of dollars on actual weapons and training is less preferable to making up a lie for defence of a nation.

You know, all it would have taken is for some small group (not even an actual country) to attack one of these nations and the whole conspiracy would have gone up in smoke.

Why, why, why would they do something so stupid as that? The existence of their country, the lives of the people, not to mention their own lives are thrown in there if they perpetrate this lie, and all it would take is some insane person to actually challenge them and it would be all over. If the country is invaded, then all the money they have will become worthless. If the country descends into civil war any money they have is worthless. If they are killed any money they have is worthless (to them).

The risks far exceed the rewards. So I ask again: Why would they perpetrate this lie when it would be so much easier and safer to make money legitimately and that you could make more money legitimately.

As an example:

I offer you two choices

1) You can make 10 billion dollars, but there is a high chance you will be killed, or all you money will be taken away

or

2) You can make 20 billion dollars without the risk of being killed or the money being taken away.

Now, which option would you choose? Now answer me this: Why would someone choose the first one (because that would be the answer as to why they would perpetuate the conspiracy)?

So spending billions of dollars on actual weapons and training is less preferable to making up a lie for defence of a nation.

The military does spend billions (trillions) of dollars on weapons. It also spends a portion of that money on lies and propaganda.

You know, all it would have taken is for some small group (not even an actual country) to attack one of these nations and the whole conspiracy would have gone up in smoke.

They have. Whenever a country or group attacks a US military base or property abroad it's called a police action and the response is always through traditional bombings and troop invasions. The US has never reacted with ICBM's.

The risks far exceed the rewards. So I ask again: Why would they perpetrate this lie when it would be so much easier and safer to make money legitimately and that you could make more money legitimately.

Money is only a small factor. NASA is and always has been a military propaganda machine. Its purpose is to foster the illusion of space travel and make other countries think that they could be annihilated by ICBM's built on that same technology at the push of a button.

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That would only be logical if USA would be the only one who knew that earth was flat and getting ICBM:s to the orbit was impossible. But Soviet union knew that because they had allready launched several satellites and to the orbit and to the moon.

The Soviets and USA were working together from day one. Form the day they raided Hitler's rocket factories and divided up the scientists amongst themselves to the end of the Cold War, the Russians and Americans were working hand-in-hand as allies, partners, and friends. They were in on it together from the start. Only media hype portrayed them as enemies. The US government freely admits to working with Russia throughout the Cold War as friends and allies.

So your original claim was illogical.

You said:

When you can intimidate your enemy with total annihilation at the push of a button, you are untouchable.

Who is the enemy you can intimidate? Pratically all large countries have their own spaceprograms so you can't intimidate them.

Who is the enemy you can intimidate?

In the 50's there were plenty.

Pratically all large countries have their own spaceprograms so you can't intimidate them.

All of those countries got that technology by submitting to American will and becoming NATO allies.

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Who is the enemy you can intimidate?

In the 50's there were plenty.

Like who? I mean serious military threats to the USA.

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Pratically all large countries have their own spaceprograms so you can't intimidate them.

All of those countries got that technology by submitting to American will and becoming NATO allies.

No they didn't such as Soviet union or China.

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 14, 2008, 10:51:11 AM

The moon is not self-luminous, Rowbotham was wrong about this.

Does this give me a free pass to throw out all of Rowbothams work?

Yes, because with Tom's logic:

The Greeks were wrong about flies instantaneously spawning from raw mean so they were wrong about everything.

Rowbotham thought that the moon was self-luminous, so he was wrong about everything.

Looks like RE just won according to Tom.

Ahh, another one of these questions. Well, first off NASA wouldn't be able to explore space because the Earth would catch up to the space craft. And from that we can conclude that all of the trillions of dollars funding NASA go to building cardboard boxes. So what happens to whats left? Well it pretty obvious it goes to the people in charge, and the workers there to keep their mouths shut.

So starting in 2010 NASA will pay Russia to build cardboard boxes?  Oh and they will pay SpaceX and Orbital Sciences to build more cardboard boxes?  So let me get this right, NASA is now taking money out of their own pockets to keep the conspiracy going?  And this keeps your whole NASA is making money off the conspiracy?  How is this exactly if they are now gonna be paying other people to build these "cardboard boxes"?

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So people smart enough to run this whole conspiracy couldn't have chosen the more logical path in the first place?

NASA was originally created as a military organization with one purpose: To get to the moon at all costs, even if it meant faking it. Creating rocket technologies, or at least creating the illusion of them, was a matter of national security.

Again, NASA was not created until several months after the first successful launch of a satellite.  So the government would have known that they were just throwing money away, because they would have known space flight wasn't possible.

I ask again.  Why is it that the escape velocity of Flat Earth decreases with altitude but space flight isn't possible?

You guys really need to let this whole space flight isn't possible theory go.  The only reason you cling to it so hard is because if you admit it is possible you have to then start considering the mountain of evidence that NASA has for RET.  Quite funny actually.  Someone answer the bold/italicized question.

Quote from: goldstein on December 30, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on September 14, 2008, 10:51:11 AM

The moon is not self-luminous, Rowbotham was wrong about this.

Does this give me a free pass to throw out all of Rowbothams work?

Yes, because with Tom's logic:

The Greeks were wrong about flies instantaneously spawning from raw mean so they were wrong about everything.

Tom has never stated anything like this.  Really, are straw men the only thing you guys are capable of?