Poll

Is gun control an effective means of reducing violent crime

Yes.  People cannot be trusted with guns for any reason.  If the population is not armed, then there are less guns in the hands of criminals.  As a result there will be less violent crime
Yes.  But only for gun crimes, it will have no effect on other types of violent crimes
Yes and no.  It may reduce crimes commited with guns, but criminal will then resort to other weapons such as knives.  Other violent crimes will increase
No.  Criminals will get guns despite the law, it will have no effect on crime
No.  Not only will criminals ignore this law and get guns illegally, but such laws will make for easier victims since they will not be armed.  Crime rates will increase

Gun Control

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Jesus Crotch

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #270 on: January 11, 2009, 10:45:32 AM »
Cars have other uses though, apart from as a hobby. After all, fencing's a hobby but carrying a sword down the street's still a bad idea.

Yet it is legal.

No, it isn't.  Actually, the laws regarding blades and other weapons are fairly draconian in the US.  There is no NKA lobby.  In CA, possession of a concealed knife with a fixed blade over a certain (tiny) length is a felony, where the unlawful carrying of a legally owned firearm is an infraction (ticket)
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Raist

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #271 on: January 11, 2009, 10:47:55 AM »
Cars have other uses though, apart from as a hobby. After all, fencing's a hobby but carrying a sword down the street's still a bad idea.

Yet it is legal.

No, it isn't.  Actually, the laws regarding blades and other weapons are fairly draconian in the US.  There is no NKA lobby.  In CA, possession of a concealed knife with a fixed blade over a certain (tiny) length is a felony, where the unlawful carrying of a legally owned firearm is an infraction (ticket)

You said concealed right? I said carrying it. Unconceal it and you are fine.

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KingMan

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #272 on: January 11, 2009, 10:57:33 AM »
Cars have other uses though, apart from as a hobby. After all, fencing's a hobby but carrying a sword down the street's still a bad idea.

Yet it is legal.

No, it isn't.  Actually, the laws regarding blades and other weapons are fairly draconian in the US.  There is no NKA lobby.  In CA, possession of a concealed knife with a fixed blade over a certain (tiny) length is a felony, where the unlawful carrying of a legally owned firearm is an infraction (ticket)

You said concealed right? I said carrying it. Unconceal it and you are fine.
Its actually better to leave it unconcealed because who's gonna mess with a dude with a sword?
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Raist

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #273 on: January 11, 2009, 10:58:34 AM »
Where would you conceal a sword?

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KingMan

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #274 on: January 11, 2009, 10:59:47 AM »
Where would you conceal a sword?
does a scabbard count as concealment?
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #275 on: January 11, 2009, 11:17:36 AM »
Cars have other uses though, apart from as a hobby. After all, fencing's a hobby but carrying a sword down the street's still a bad idea.

Yet it is legal.

No, it isn't.  Actually, the laws regarding blades and other weapons are fairly draconian in the US.  There is no NKA lobby.  In CA, possession of a concealed knife with a fixed blade over a certain (tiny) length is a felony, where the unlawful carrying of a legally owned firearm is an infraction (ticket)

You said concealed right? I said carrying it. Unconceal it and you are fine.
'

here its the other way round. You're allowed to carry knives but you're not supposed to be too open about it.
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KingMan

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #276 on: January 11, 2009, 11:20:45 AM »
Cars have other uses though, apart from as a hobby. After all, fencing's a hobby but carrying a sword down the street's still a bad idea.

Yet it is legal.

No, it isn't.  Actually, the laws regarding blades and other weapons are fairly draconian in the US.  There is no NKA lobby.  In CA, possession of a concealed knife with a fixed blade over a certain (tiny) length is a felony, where the unlawful carrying of a legally owned firearm is an infraction (ticket)

You said concealed right? I said carrying it. Unconceal it and you are fine.
'

here its the other way round. You're allowed to carry knives but you're not supposed to be too open about it.
They both make sense. If it is concealed, someone could randomly surprise someone and stab them. If it is out in the open, you might make people uncomfortable.
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cbarnett97

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #277 on: January 11, 2009, 11:25:02 AM »
Where would you conceal a sword?
does a scabbard count as concealment?
At least here in California you can walk around all day with a sword strapped to you back or on your hip but the second you touch the hilt it turn into bradishing a deadly weapon and you will go to jail, but I am sure you will get stopped by the cops every 5 seconds
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cramerian1

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #278 on: January 11, 2009, 12:05:49 PM »
the difference between cars and most blades (beside switchblades, swords, etc.) v. guns other than hunting rifles is that the former are built for non-vilont purposes, while most guns are built to kill people.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #279 on: January 11, 2009, 01:05:36 PM »
the difference between cars and most blades (beside switchblades, swords, etc.) v. guns other than hunting rifles is that the former are built for non-vilont purposes, while most guns are built to kill people.

Really, guns are built for the intent purpose of killing people?  You are more retarted than your avatar.

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cramerian1

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #280 on: January 11, 2009, 01:13:23 PM »
Were they built for the purpose of petting bunny rabbits? Other than hunting use, what are they used for?
Some people say women age like wine: With age, comes increased beauty. I respectively disagree. I say women age like milk: if they get to old, they become sour and lumpy. Maybe my hypothesis is related to my current bachelorhood...

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cbarnett97

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #281 on: January 11, 2009, 01:14:14 PM »
Were they built for the purpose of petting bunny rabbits? Other than hunting use, what are they used for?
They are designed to hit a target nothing more
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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cramerian1

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #282 on: January 11, 2009, 01:19:20 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
Some people say women age like wine: With age, comes increased beauty. I respectively disagree. I say women age like milk: if they get to old, they become sour and lumpy. Maybe my hypothesis is related to my current bachelorhood...

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cbarnett97

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #283 on: January 11, 2009, 01:20:42 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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cramerian1

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #284 on: January 11, 2009, 01:27:58 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything

No, there is also person shooting, which is what I said before that started this tangent of retardation.
Some people say women age like wine: With age, comes increased beauty. I respectively disagree. I say women age like milk: if they get to old, they become sour and lumpy. Maybe my hypothesis is related to my current bachelorhood...

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cbarnett97

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #285 on: January 11, 2009, 01:32:21 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything

No, there is also person shooting, which is what I said before that started this tangent of retardation.
SO you have a choice of either shooting clay or people, nithing else. Damn not wonder the murder rate is so high someone should invent something new to shoot at, like oh I dont know some sort of paper with concentric rings on it, and then maybe someone could figure out a way to judge ones ability based on trying to hit the smallest circle possible. I guess just wishful thinking on my part though I guess I will have to stick to people
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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cramerian1

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #286 on: January 11, 2009, 01:34:25 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything

No, there is also person shooting, which is what I said before that started this tangent of retardation.
SO you have a choice of either shooting clay or people, nithing else. Damn not wonder the murder rate is so high someone should invent something new to shoot at, like oh I dont know some sort of paper with concentric rings on it, and then maybe someone could figure out a way to judge ones ability based on trying to hit the smallest circle possible. I guess just wishful thinking on my part though I guess I will have to stick to people

oh, im sorry, and didn't realize that i had said: no, there are people and only people...
Some people say women age like wine: With age, comes increased beauty. I respectively disagree. I say women age like milk: if they get to old, they become sour and lumpy. Maybe my hypothesis is related to my current bachelorhood...

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cbarnett97

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #287 on: January 11, 2009, 01:35:20 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything

No, there is also person shooting, which is what I said before that started this tangent of retardation.
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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Raist

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #288 on: January 11, 2009, 05:13:06 PM »
Cool. I've shot thousands of rounds in my life, and I've never shot a single clay pigeon or tried to.

I'm worse than hitler.  :o

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #289 on: January 11, 2009, 07:09:08 PM »
Sarcasm aside, guns are a tool with multiple uses.  Many use them for target shooting competitions, others because they hunt for sport.  Guns are also a tool for self defense, a very effective tool. 

Yes guns are capable of killing people, that's why they were invented.  But that does not mean that giving a citizen a gun makes them a killer.  In fact, studies have shown that the responsibility of carrying a gun makes one less likely to get into confrontations in the US.  For example, citizens in Florida who are given a license to conceal carry in Florida have a very low crime rate.  Since 1987, over 258,000 people in Florida have received a CCP, out of that population, only 18 people have been convicted of a firearms violation.  That's a crime rate of .006 percent.  In addition, in the many years since Floridas CC laws were passed, its crime rate dropped 22 percent, while the national average (mostly restricting guns further) rose 14 percent.

I will repeat my original point, just because guns were invented for the purpose of killing, does not mean that giving a person a gun makes them a killer.  It's only those people who decide to abuse these rights, or those people that have proven to have violent tendencies, that should be restricted with their gun ownership.  We should make sure others are allowed to own them, just in case one of these for mentioned psychos decides to become a killer, and they don't need a gun to become a killer.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 07:10:39 PM by ragnarr »

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #290 on: January 11, 2009, 08:13:41 PM »
Where would you conceal a sword?
does a scabbard count as concealment?
At least here in California you can walk around all day with a sword strapped to you back or on your hip but the second you touch the hilt it turn into bradishing a deadly weapon and you will go to jail, but I am sure you will get stopped by the cops every 5 seconds

Here is the end of the debate about the swords.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/01/11/ordaz.ca.sword.man.shot.dead.kcra

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Raist

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #291 on: January 11, 2009, 08:43:24 PM »
We've already agreed you can't wave a sword around.

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Anteater7171

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #292 on: January 11, 2009, 10:24:23 PM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with

You do realize that the Ar-15/M16 Is one of the most popular target rifles in existence? They are highly accurate and the .223 Remington cartridge is great for varmints. They are also very popular for small to medium size game hunting. This all can be attributed to the fact that it is a versatile and modular design.

But that is all pointless, since the reason the second amendment exists, is not to hunt; but to over throw a tyrannical government should one arise. For that purpose the Ar-15 also fits the bill.

P.S. Skeet is a sport best reserved for shotguns.   
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #293 on: January 12, 2009, 05:47:09 AM »

You do realize that the Ar-15/M16 Is one of the most popular target rifles in existence? They are highly accurate and the .223 Remington cartridge is great for varmints. They are also very popular for small to medium size game hunting. This all can be attributed to the fact that it is a versatile and modular design.

But that is all pointless, since the reason the second amendment exists, is not to hunt; but to over throw a tyrannical government should one arise. For that purpose the Ar-15 also fits the bill.

P.S. Skeet is a sport best reserved for shotguns.   

I didn't know they used automatic weapons for hunting  ???.  Or is it the semi auto version of the weapon they use?

Also, see my previous posts, the point of the second amendment is to prevent usurpation of power by leaders.  Though the capacity to rebel is present, I think there is an important difference that needs to be understood.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #294 on: January 12, 2009, 07:06:20 AM »
The point is you cannot take control/enslave/opress a people against their will if the whole population is armed, and there are several more examples in the works I provides in addition to Vietnam that support this point.

I'm glad you've responded with some historical examples. I haven't read em yet, but I will and give my response.

Ever get a chance to read through them?  I am eager to know if you agree or not.

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Benocrates

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #295 on: January 12, 2009, 07:07:54 AM »
I haven't. I did no work this weekend and now have a shit load of readings to do. Maybe I'll get to them tonight.
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Get the fuck over it.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #296 on: January 12, 2009, 07:13:43 AM »
No rush, thanks.

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Jesus Crotch

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #297 on: January 12, 2009, 09:23:05 AM »
yes, but specifically human targets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
your teeling me this was meant to go skeet shooting with
that is the only kind of target shooting there is?
And if you only get your knowledge from wiki then you will never learn anything
No, there is also person shooting, which is what I said before that started this tangent of retardation.
SO you have a choice of either shooting clay or people, nithing else. Damn not wonder the murder rate is so high someone should invent something new to shoot at, like oh I dont know some sort of paper with concentric rings on it, and then maybe someone could figure out a way to judge ones ability based on trying to hit the smallest circle possible. I guess just wishful thinking on my part though I guess I will have to stick to people

oh, im sorry, and didn't realize that i had said: no, there are people and only people...

I try to shoot 3-500 rounds per week, and I've never shot anyone.  On the average, according to the NRA, there are nearly 4 million rounds of ammunition fired in the United States PER DAY.  Do the math.

Saying that the purpose of all firearms is to kill people is like saying the purpose of all shovels is to bury people, jackass.  A firearm is a tool no more capable of causing death than a tire iron.

Gun control means hitting what you're aiming at!



This is the Glock 21C at 15m, timed fire, one round per second, groups are 5 rounds.  Ignore the circled holes, those were from a stranger's gun that needed a sight adjustment.  The one on the right was aimed at the small, round target at 7m!



Same weapon, 15m, slow fire, 5 round group.  Damn outlier!
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Bob28

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #298 on: January 12, 2009, 09:52:18 AM »
it looks like the target is of a guy facing away from you, you can't go around shooting people in the back.  good grouping though on the second one.  
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 02:18:26 PM by Jack »

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Anteater7171

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #299 on: January 12, 2009, 01:27:22 PM »

You do realize that the Ar-15/M16 Is one of the most popular target rifles in existence? They are highly accurate and the .223 Remington cartridge is great for varmints. They are also very popular for small to medium size game hunting. This all can be attributed to the fact that it is a versatile and modular design.

But that is all pointless, since the reason the second amendment exists, is not to hunt; but to over throw a tyrannical government should one arise. For that purpose the Ar-15 also fits the bill.

P.S. Skeet is a sport best reserved for shotguns.   

I didn't know they used automatic weapons for hunting  ???.  Or is it the semi auto version of the weapon they use?

Also, see my previous posts, the point of the second amendment is to prevent usurpation of power by leaders.  Though the capacity to rebel is present, I think there is an important difference that needs to be understood.

Typically it's semi-automatic versions that are used.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-15_VTR.asp

Though were not restricted full-auto could be used, but it would be extremely impractical.



Good shooting Jesus Crotch, when I get my camera back all post some pics of my targets.
I don't remember anything. Well, I do, but it's really vague. Like I was on drugs the whole time.