Poll

Is gun control an effective means of reducing violent crime

Yes.  People cannot be trusted with guns for any reason.  If the population is not armed, then there are less guns in the hands of criminals.  As a result there will be less violent crime
Yes.  But only for gun crimes, it will have no effect on other types of violent crimes
Yes and no.  It may reduce crimes commited with guns, but criminal will then resort to other weapons such as knives.  Other violent crimes will increase
No.  Criminals will get guns despite the law, it will have no effect on crime
No.  Not only will criminals ignore this law and get guns illegally, but such laws will make for easier victims since they will not be armed.  Crime rates will increase

Gun Control

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Thork

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1260 on: December 31, 2012, 10:28:45 AM »

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Lorddave

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1261 on: December 31, 2012, 10:49:58 AM »
Tanks are used against personnel, bunkers, buildings, bridges, vehicles, etc.  They are multipurpose weapons.  They also move, so being mobile will not really save you.
Tanks are slow. They aim slow and fire slow. They are only good against slow moving or stationary targets. Or large groups of people.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1262 on: December 31, 2012, 11:01:32 AM »
Tanks are used against personnel, bunkers, buildings, bridges, vehicles, etc.  They are multipurpose weapons.  They also move, so being mobile will not really save you.
Tanks are slow. They aim slow and fire slow. They are only good against slow moving or stationary targets. Or large groups of people.

We are no longer limited by WWI technology.  Modern tanks are fast, aim fast, fire fast, and can hit moving targets.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1263 on: December 31, 2012, 11:37:54 AM »
Tanks are used against personnel, bunkers, buildings, bridges, vehicles, etc.  They are multipurpose weapons.  They also move, so being mobile will not really save you.
Tanks are slow. They aim slow and fire slow. They are only good against slow moving or stationary targets. Or large groups of people.

We are no longer limited by WWI technology.  Modern tanks are fast, aim fast, fire fast, and can hit moving targets.
Abrams tanks also drink jet fuel. They need tanker to get to the end of your street. And I would like to see a modern MBT cross a regular bridge in the countryside. They would be practically useless in a non-supply rich environment, like a civil uprising (you know those oil refinery workers? They're using that petrol to make molotovs about now).
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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Lorddave

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1264 on: December 31, 2012, 12:02:07 PM »
Tanks are used against personnel, bunkers, buildings, bridges, vehicles, etc.  They are multipurpose weapons.  They also move, so being mobile will not really save you.
Tanks are slow. They aim slow and fire slow. They are only good against slow moving or stationary targets. Or large groups of people.

We are no longer limited by WWI technology.  Modern tanks are fast, aim fast, fire fast, and can hit moving targets.
Modern tanks are incapable of hitting a target moving at 55 mph with an unpredictable path. (ie. zig zagging)  Unless they're close enough to be hit with the machine gun.  The benefits of a tank are the armor and the ability to fire shells from over a mile away.  But I am convinced that my car(2001 ford focus) would be able to dodge tank fire in an suburban setting.  Assuming no traffic.

Tanks are great against armies.  Tanks aren't so great against gorilla tactics.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1265 on: December 31, 2012, 02:37:43 PM »
That video is fake.

you know what? it was a fake. i didn't look closely enough.

here's one that appears less animated:

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Syria - Army tank destroyed by an IED in Dara

still, hard to tell whether it was a mine or a rocket attack. i suspect it was an IED, because the voices are anticipating the tank crossing the open stretch, presumably where the mine was laid.
true wisdom is always concise

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Vindictus

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1266 on: December 31, 2012, 02:50:52 PM »
Being afraid has nothing to do with such a situation. Your militia would be useless against even the most lightly armoured vehicle.

How do you know?  No, really.  Let's go into some detail here.  This is the second time in this thread that I've noticed an argument that gets casually thrown around all the time and never seems to be challenged at all.  I'd like you or any of the other apparent experts in warfare to explain why a local resistance would do no good against a hostile government or occupying force.

Local militia in the 19th Century only needed some weapons and some organisation to be an effective fighting force. Local militia in the 21st Century are up against all sorts of armoured vehicles and aircraft. Unless they somehow have access to anti vehicle weapons, including anti air launchers, they're going to be completely ineffective against any army strong enough to invade America, if not the America military itself.

That's not an explanation, that's you repeating yourself.  You're making a lot of big assumptions here.  For example, you're assuming that a local resistance would be "up against all sorts of armoured [sic] vehicles and aircraft."  Why?  Why would the rebels attack tanks they can't beat?  The whole point of guerrilla warfare is that you can fight the enemy on your own terms - meaning when you have the advantage, not them.  And if the rebels did decide to take out enemy tanks, why would they necessarily have to attack them head-on with anti-vehicle weapons?  Don't you have any imagination?

Small pockets of militia using guerilla tactics aren't going to successfully defend/retake the entire continent. Still, they're going to need weapons to actually hurt vehicles, and how many US citizens have those?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1267 on: December 31, 2012, 03:17:24 PM »
Being afraid has nothing to do with such a situation. Your militia would be useless against even the most lightly armoured vehicle.

How do you know?  No, really.  Let's go into some detail here.  This is the second time in this thread that I've noticed an argument that gets casually thrown around all the time and never seems to be challenged at all.  I'd like you or any of the other apparent experts in warfare to explain why a local resistance would do no good against a hostile government or occupying force.

Local militia in the 19th Century only needed some weapons and some organisation to be an effective fighting force. Local militia in the 21st Century are up against all sorts of armoured vehicles and aircraft. Unless they somehow have access to anti vehicle weapons, including anti air launchers, they're going to be completely ineffective against any army strong enough to invade America, if not the America military itself.

That's not an explanation, that's you repeating yourself.  You're making a lot of big assumptions here.  For example, you're assuming that a local resistance would be "up against all sorts of armoured [sic] vehicles and aircraft."  Why?  Why would the rebels attack tanks they can't beat?  The whole point of guerrilla warfare is that you can fight the enemy on your own terms - meaning when you have the advantage, not them.  And if the rebels did decide to take out enemy tanks, why would they necessarily have to attack them head-on with anti-vehicle weapons?  Don't you have any imagination?

Small pockets of militia using guerilla tactics aren't going to successfully defend/retake the entire continent. Still, they're going to need weapons to actually hurt vehicles, and how many US citizens have those?

Tell that to the Irish.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1268 on: December 31, 2012, 03:32:41 PM »
Okay, so I don't really feel like doing this, but as promised, I am going to go into some depth as to why an american resistance against the US military would prove more difficult than either the Vietnam resistance fighters or Taliban fighters have had.

Now this is going to make one big assumption, and that is that the military is willing to go along with this whole killing americans thing.  I doubt that our military is one that would actually do this, but who knows, for this post its not relevant why or if i am right, simply know that i am assuming that the military would not defect for the purpose of this example.

1.)  Terrain/infrastructure.  One of the most difficult things about both campaigns for the US military has been the location.  Vietnam is a giant jungle, allowing for supply paths to be hidden by the canopy.  We tried using thermals and basically just bringing the entire jungle to the ground, but neither could stop the supplies flowing to the south.  In Afghanistan, you have terrible mountain roads, if there are roads at all.  Much of the country is at a high altitude, which diminishes the capabilities of helicopters, and makes resupplying forward bases a pain in the arse.

In comparison, while the US has rough terrain, we have the largest infrastructural system in the world.  Our Interstate system is expansive, and allows for the rapid movement of vast quantity of supplies very quickly.  While the state parks would provide vast areas for gorilla networks to operate, the ability of the military to surround these parks and so readily resupply outside of them would diminish the effectiveness of operating from them.

The terrain makes it difficult to use our advanced technology to its complete effectiveness.  Sure we can put a bomb in any cave we want, but which cave?  So we managed to get a tank in the mountains, great now it got hit with 4 rpgs from different directions.  Our troops still kill way more than they are killed themselves, due to night vision, advanced optics, and body armor/superior training, but its not a formal war.

2.)  Development.  In Afghanistan and Vietnam at the time (even to some degree today) you are dealing with rural societies without significant urban populations.  resistance fighters can move from small town to small town, find food and shelter, and then fight, run, and repeat. 

In the us, only 2 percent of the population farms the land, and this is not distributed equally among the land.  In places like los angeles and manhatten, no one farms anything.  The wealth of these regions, the things that feed these people, are grown by an extremely small percentage of people that the military could easily control and force to work to feed their own troops, while starving major urban centers into submission. 

No one in the Taliban gives a rats ass if the United States controls the major cities in Afghanistan.  they will just hide in the mountains until we leave, and then stroll back in and retake them to regain political control.

This basically means that the US government could inflict massive amounts of damage without having to control huge swaths of land or large numbers of people, which cannot be done in Afghanistan or Vietnam.  Farmers could be forced at gunpoint to farm for the military (you only need enough food to feed 1/300 Americans, and oil plants could be operated by the military for their vehicle needs, again the military only uses a small percentage of the petroleum we produce, so a vast reduction in total operating plants could still sustain the military's need)

3.)  Distance.  Just ask the Brits, fighting a war oversees that is costing men and money is unpopular.  Even if you win almost every major battle, it will be difficult to secure more supplies and more men when you need them.  In Afghanistan our forces are constantly beneath the numbers that could truly end the war, and in Vietnam, the Tet offensive showed that even more men were going to be needed to secure a victory.

This is to say that we tried to fight these wars within budget constraints.  Unlike WW2 where we stopped building new cars to put out 42,000 tanks, we currently operate only 7,000 tanks (still 7 times what India has, and nearly 20 times the number of British challenger II tanks) we only sent what we thought might be enough, rather than everything we could. 

In a us rebellion, I doubt that the Military would act as conservatively.  we would get the full brunt of the US military, something that has not been seen in a huge amount of time.

4.) Availibilty of military grade hardware - Vietnam we were fighting the NVA, and the NVA supplied Vietcong.  This meant AK-47s, not smith and wessen hand guns.  They had grenades, light machine guns, and even Russian tanks.  In afghanistan, they have tons of left over soviet munitions, and even some left over American weapons that were given to them to help the Ruskies.  I doubt that the russians would be supplying our rebellion with RPGs, which makes us shit out of luck when it comes to trying to dent Abrams and Bradley fighting vehicles. 

-

In the end, it comes down to stomach.  Our rebellion would be successful if we were willing to pretty much all die, and cause a complete collapse of the society.  At a certain point the Military would not be able to pay all of its debts, both foreign and domestic (troops wont murder their own people without pay) even while they were selling all of our resources to foreign nations.

However, I think that for all our talk of freedom, we would submit to the horrible power of our military and it would become a dictatorship.


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Lorddave

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1269 on: December 31, 2012, 03:46:07 PM »
However, I think that for all our talk of freedom, we would submit to the horrible power of our military and it would become a dictatorship.
Might get something done then. :P


I can't find any flaw in Orbis's analysis.
All I CAN add is that we have a much higher population density than Vietnam and Afghanistan.  So unless the US army was gonna carpet bomb/Nuke our cities, we could overrun them with sheer numbers alone.  But that's only if we were all willing to die horribly.


Also:
Most major cities have a massive network of underground tunnels, sewers, and subways.  I imagine that we'd use those as our main base of operations.  Especially NYC which has so many unused tunnels that you could easily get lost in them.  I doubt you could find all of the exits, let alone block them all.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1270 on: December 31, 2012, 03:50:43 PM »
One thing being ignored here is that the US military swear to uphold the constitution, not the government. If the government threw the constitution out, the military could effectively do whatever it wanted.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1271 on: December 31, 2012, 04:06:11 PM »
One thing being ignored here is that the US military swear to uphold the constitution, not the government. If the government threw the constitution out, the military could effectively do whatever it wanted.

Executing people that wont follow orders is a quick way to remove people who get all uppity about the constitution.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1272 on: December 31, 2012, 04:56:16 PM »
Being afraid has nothing to do with such a situation. Your militia would be useless against even the most lightly armoured vehicle.

How do you know?  No, really.  Let's go into some detail here.  This is the second time in this thread that I've noticed an argument that gets casually thrown around all the time and never seems to be challenged at all.  I'd like you or any of the other apparent experts in warfare to explain why a local resistance would do no good against a hostile government or occupying force.

Local militia in the 19th Century only needed some weapons and some organisation to be an effective fighting force. Local militia in the 21st Century are up against all sorts of armoured vehicles and aircraft. Unless they somehow have access to anti vehicle weapons, including anti air launchers, they're going to be completely ineffective against any army strong enough to invade America, if not the America military itself.

That's not an explanation, that's you repeating yourself.  You're making a lot of big assumptions here.  For example, you're assuming that a local resistance would be "up against all sorts of armoured [sic] vehicles and aircraft."  Why?  Why would the rebels attack tanks they can't beat?  The whole point of guerrilla warfare is that you can fight the enemy on your own terms - meaning when you have the advantage, not them.  And if the rebels did decide to take out enemy tanks, why would they necessarily have to attack them head-on with anti-vehicle weapons?  Don't you have any imagination?

Small pockets of militia using guerilla tactics aren't going to successfully defend/retake the entire continent. Still, they're going to need weapons to actually hurt vehicles, and how many US citizens have those?

You're just repeating yourself again.

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1273 on: December 31, 2012, 04:59:26 PM »
again?
true wisdom is always concise

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illmunati

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1274 on: December 31, 2012, 05:27:06 PM »
Being afraid has nothing to do with such a situation. Your militia would be useless against even the most lightly armoured vehicle.

How do you know?  No, really.  Let's go into some detail here.  This is the second time in this thread that I've noticed an argument that gets casually thrown around all the time and never seems to be challenged at all.  I'd like you or any of the other apparent experts in warfare to explain why a local resistance would do no good against a hostile government or occupying force.

Local militia in the 19th Century only needed some weapons and some organisation to be an effective fighting force. Local militia in the 21st Century are up against all sorts of armoured vehicles and aircraft. Unless they somehow have access to anti vehicle weapons, including anti air launchers, they're going to be completely ineffective against any army strong enough to invade America, if not the America military itself.

That's not an explanation, that's you repeating yourself.  You're making a lot of big assumptions here.  For example, you're assuming that a local resistance would be "up against all sorts of armoured [sic] vehicles and aircraft."  Why?  Why would the rebels attack tanks they can't beat?  The whole point of guerrilla warfare is that you can fight the enemy on your own terms - meaning when you have the advantage, not them.  And if the rebels did decide to take out enemy tanks, why would they necessarily have to attack them head-on with anti-vehicle weapons?  Don't you have any imagination?

Small pockets of militia using guerilla tactics aren't going to successfully defend/retake the entire continent. Still, they're going to need weapons to actually hurt vehicles, and how many US citizens have those?

a lot of US citizens own guns

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Vindictus

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1275 on: January 01, 2013, 02:02:32 AM »
Being afraid has nothing to do with such a situation. Your militia would be useless against even the most lightly armoured vehicle.

How do you know?  No, really.  Let's go into some detail here.  This is the second time in this thread that I've noticed an argument that gets casually thrown around all the time and never seems to be challenged at all.  I'd like you or any of the other apparent experts in warfare to explain why a local resistance would do no good against a hostile government or occupying force.

Local militia in the 19th Century only needed some weapons and some organisation to be an effective fighting force. Local militia in the 21st Century are up against all sorts of armoured vehicles and aircraft. Unless they somehow have access to anti vehicle weapons, including anti air launchers, they're going to be completely ineffective against any army strong enough to invade America, if not the America military itself.

That's not an explanation, that's you repeating yourself.  You're making a lot of big assumptions here.  For example, you're assuming that a local resistance would be "up against all sorts of armoured [sic] vehicles and aircraft."  Why?  Why would the rebels attack tanks they can't beat?  The whole point of guerrilla warfare is that you can fight the enemy on your own terms - meaning when you have the advantage, not them.  And if the rebels did decide to take out enemy tanks, why would they necessarily have to attack them head-on with anti-vehicle weapons?  Don't you have any imagination?

Small pockets of militia using guerilla tactics aren't going to successfully defend/retake the entire continent. Still, they're going to need weapons to actually hurt vehicles, and how many US citizens have those?

You're just repeating yourself again.

No, you're the one repeating yourself. Tell me how an American militia could counter armoured vehicles.

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Hazbollah

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1276 on: January 01, 2013, 02:18:20 AM »
By denying them supplies. Like I said, that shiny thing with a big fuck off gun is useless without petrol. Do you think the world would sell resources to an oppressive regime? Domestic oil workers will probably be revolting as well, remember.
Always check your tackle- Caerphilly school of Health. If I see an innuendo in my post, I'll be sure to whip it out.

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1277 on: January 01, 2013, 02:23:11 AM »
Okay, so I don't really feel like doing this, but as promised, I am going to go into some depth as to why an american resistance against the US military would prove more difficult than either the Vietnam resistance fighters or Taliban fighters have had.

Now this is going to make one big assumption, and that is that the military is willing to go along with this whole killing americans thing.  I doubt that our military is one that would actually do this, but who knows, for this post its not relevant why or if i am right, simply know that i am assuming that the military would not defect for the purpose of this example.

1.)  Terrain/infrastructure.  One of the most difficult things about both campaigns for the US military has been the location.  Vietnam is a giant jungle, allowing for supply paths to be hidden by the canopy.  We tried using thermals and basically just bringing the entire jungle to the ground, but neither could stop the supplies flowing to the south.  In Afghanistan, you have terrible mountain roads, if there are roads at all.  Much of the country is at a high altitude, which diminishes the capabilities of helicopters, and makes resupplying forward bases a pain in the arse.

In comparison, while the US has rough terrain, we have the largest infrastructural system in the world.  Our Interstate system is expansive, and allows for the rapid movement of vast quantity of supplies very quickly.  While the state parks would provide vast areas for gorilla networks to operate, the ability of the military to surround these parks and so readily resupply outside of them would diminish the effectiveness of operating from them.

The terrain makes it difficult to use our advanced technology to its complete effectiveness.  Sure we can put a bomb in any cave we want, but which cave?  So we managed to get a tank in the mountains, great now it got hit with 4 rpgs from different directions.  Our troops still kill way more than they are killed themselves, due to night vision, advanced optics, and body armor/superior training, but its not a formal war.

2.)  Development.  In Afghanistan and Vietnam at the time (even to some degree today) you are dealing with rural societies without significant urban populations.  resistance fighters can move from small town to small town, find food and shelter, and then fight, run, and repeat. 

In the us, only 2 percent of the population farms the land, and this is not distributed equally among the land.  In places like los angeles and manhatten, no one farms anything.  The wealth of these regions, the things that feed these people, are grown by an extremely small percentage of people that the military could easily control and force to work to feed their own troops, while starving major urban centers into submission. 

No one in the Taliban gives a rats ass if the United States controls the major cities in Afghanistan.  they will just hide in the mountains until we leave, and then stroll back in and retake them to regain political control.

This basically means that the US government could inflict massive amounts of damage without having to control huge swaths of land or large numbers of people, which cannot be done in Afghanistan or Vietnam.  Farmers could be forced at gunpoint to farm for the military (you only need enough food to feed 1/300 Americans, and oil plants could be operated by the military for their vehicle needs, again the military only uses a small percentage of the petroleum we produce, so a vast reduction in total operating plants could still sustain the military's need)

3.)  Distance.  Just ask the Brits, fighting a war oversees that is costing men and money is unpopular.  Even if you win almost every major battle, it will be difficult to secure more supplies and more men when you need them.  In Afghanistan our forces are constantly beneath the numbers that could truly end the war, and in Vietnam, the Tet offensive showed that even more men were going to be needed to secure a victory.

This is to say that we tried to fight these wars within budget constraints.  Unlike WW2 where we stopped building new cars to put out 42,000 tanks, we currently operate only 7,000 tanks (still 7 times what India has, and nearly 20 times the number of British challenger II tanks) we only sent what we thought might be enough, rather than everything we could. 

In a us rebellion, I doubt that the Military would act as conservatively.  we would get the full brunt of the US military, something that has not been seen in a huge amount of time.

4.) Availibilty of military grade hardware - Vietnam we were fighting the NVA, and the NVA supplied Vietcong.  This meant AK-47s, not smith and wessen hand guns.  They had grenades, light machine guns, and even Russian tanks.  In afghanistan, they have tons of left over soviet munitions, and even some left over American weapons that were given to them to help the Ruskies.  I doubt that the russians would be supplying our rebellion with RPGs, which makes us shit out of luck when it comes to trying to dent Abrams and Bradley fighting vehicles. 

-

In the end, it comes down to stomach.  Our rebellion would be successful if we were willing to pretty much all die, and cause a complete collapse of the society.  At a certain point the Military would not be able to pay all of its debts, both foreign and domestic (troops wont murder their own people without pay) even while they were selling all of our resources to foreign nations.

However, I think that for all our talk of freedom, we would submit to the horrible power of our military and it would become a dictatorship.

You would also likely be in a civil war situation with some of the population supporting the change.

And it's different war environment for the soldier, fighting your own kind, as opposed to going abroad and fighting someone else; the tactics of war change.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 02:32:10 AM by DDDDAts all folks »

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1278 on: January 01, 2013, 02:36:57 AM »
You would also likely be in a civil war situation with some of the population supporting the change.

And it's different war environment for the soldier, fighting your own kind, as opposed to going abroad and fighting someone else; the tactics of war change.

Yeah I left out a number of other factors, I just wanted to finish towards the end of it.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1279 on: January 01, 2013, 08:38:48 PM »
No, you're the one repeating yourself. Tell me how an American militia could counter armoured vehicles.


The same way insurrectionists do in other countries today? I hate to dig up local examples, but hey:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrenpoint_ambush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Armagh_Sniper_(1990%E2%80%931997)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles#Violence_peaks_and_Stormont_collapses

Quote
In 1972 itself, the Provisional IRA killed approximately 100 soldiers, wounded 500 more and carried out approximately 1,300 bombings,[77] mostly against commercial targets which they considered "the artificial economy".[78][79] While the Official IRA killed approximately 19 soldiers and wounded dozens more in just 1972 mostly though gun attacks according to the CAIN project's Sutton database.


This was all before serious arms flooded in, in a region with a relatively miniscule population and no terrain-related difficulties. It is excruciatingly obvious that given even limited arms, aysmmetric resistance is possible. It's therefore probably best to drop that line of argument, as it is essentially a nerdy irrelevance. The relevant question is what degree of weapons-related freedom is necessary rather than gratuitous.


American gun culture is clearly perverse and deeply problematic. But Americans have a rights-culture that is in many ways enviable. It is amazing and unnerving how often professed progressive, liberal Europeans (in the most awkwardly broad sense of the term) drift toward a vague cultural establishmantarianism.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 09:08:50 PM by Lord Wilmore »
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1280 on: January 01, 2013, 08:44:46 PM »
Do you think the world would sell resources to an oppressive regime?

I literally'd

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Beorn

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1281 on: January 01, 2013, 10:49:10 PM »
But Americans have a rights-culture that is in many ways enviable.

But they can't have Kinder Surprise. So much for their rights-culture.
Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1282 on: January 01, 2013, 10:54:29 PM »
But they can't have Kinder Surprise. So much for their rights-culture.


"in many ways"...


I mean, free-speech is just like Kinder Surprise.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1283 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:17 AM »
But Americans have a rights-culture that is in many ways enviable.

But they can't have Kinder Surprise. So much for their rights-culture.

Our Nanny state is actually pretty good.  Full gore in games is still allowed, you can own fully automatic weapons, cars with any amount of Horsepower, and BBQ all day till the earth dies.  And I honestly would never choose the kinder surprise over the Cadbury cream egg.

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Thork

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1284 on: January 02, 2013, 11:15:22 AM »
Americans are incredibly backward. Below is a map showing all of the countries that have not yet officially converted to the metric system.


USA, Liberia and Myanmar. 

Not the most progressive of people. If the likes of North Korea can adopt the metric system and they can't, what hope do they have of tackling gun laws?
The USA is stuck in 1850 and refuses to improve itself.

And yes America, we all laugh at you.  ;D
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 11:17:29 AM by Thork »

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1285 on: January 02, 2013, 11:23:45 AM »
Americans are incredibly backward. Below is a map showing all of the countries that have not yet officially converted to the metric system.


USA, Liberia and Myanmar. 

Not the most progressive of people. If the likes of North Korea can adopt the metric system and they can't, what hope do they have of tackling gun laws?
The USA is stuck in 1850 and refuses to improve itself.

And yes America, we all laugh at you.  ;D

Because the British don't use miles, stone, or any number of other non metric measuring methods?  Educated Americans know the metric system, its not particularly hard to learn, we just have an extremely stupid combo of both methods.  I can buy a gallon of milk, or a two liter bottle of coke.  Why on earth can't they pick one? 

I can go buy sets of either standard or metric tools, why the hell are both offered?  In every science and physics class you do everything in the metric system (in the University of California system), because they know that you are going to have to work with a global community.

But yeah, its annoying that we still use a combo of both, rather than just one.  The metric system is cleaner and neater, and much more intuitive. 


Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1286 on: January 02, 2013, 12:42:34 PM »
Americans are incredibly backward. Below is a map showing all of the countries that have not yet officially converted to the metric system.


USA, Liberia and Myanmar. 

Not the most progressive of people. If the likes of North Korea can adopt the metric system and they can't, what hope do they have of tackling gun laws?
The USA is stuck in 1850 and refuses to improve itself.

And yes America, we all laugh at you.  ;D

Because the British don't use miles, stone, or any number of other non metric measuring methods?  Educated Americans know the metric system, its not particularly hard to learn, we just have an extremely stupid combo of both methods.  I can buy a gallon of milk, or a two liter bottle of coke.  Why on earth can't they pick one? 

I can go buy sets of either standard or metric tools, why the hell are both offered?  In every science and physics class you do everything in the metric system (in the University of California system), because they know that you are going to have to work with a global community.

But yeah, its annoying that we still use a combo of both, rather than just one.  The metric system is cleaner and neater, and much more intuitive.

Didn't the shuttle fall out of the sky because someone messed up converting metric to imperial on something?

?

OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1287 on: January 02, 2013, 12:55:17 PM »
Americans are incredibly backward. Below is a map showing all of the countries that have not yet officially converted to the metric system.


USA, Liberia and Myanmar. 

Not the most progressive of people. If the likes of North Korea can adopt the metric system and they can't, what hope do they have of tackling gun laws?
The USA is stuck in 1850 and refuses to improve itself.

And yes America, we all laugh at you.  ;D

Because the British don't use miles, stone, or any number of other non metric measuring methods?  Educated Americans know the metric system, its not particularly hard to learn, we just have an extremely stupid combo of both methods.  I can buy a gallon of milk, or a two liter bottle of coke.  Why on earth can't they pick one? 

I can go buy sets of either standard or metric tools, why the hell are both offered?  In every science and physics class you do everything in the metric system (in the University of California system), because they know that you are going to have to work with a global community.

But yeah, its annoying that we still use a combo of both, rather than just one.  The metric system is cleaner and neater, and much more intuitive.

Didn't the shuttle fall out of the sky because someone messed up converting metric to imperial on something?

Not a shuttle, the mars orbiter smacked into mars because of a forgotten conversion, not a messed up conversion.  This is why we need to pick on system or the other.

Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1288 on: January 02, 2013, 01:07:45 PM »
Americans are incredibly backward. Below is a map showing all of the countries that have not yet officially converted to the metric system.


USA, Liberia and Myanmar. 

Not the most progressive of people. If the likes of North Korea can adopt the metric system and they can't, what hope do they have of tackling gun laws?
The USA is stuck in 1850 and refuses to improve itself.

And yes America, we all laugh at you.  ;D

Because the British don't use miles, stone, or any number of other non metric measuring methods?  Educated Americans know the metric system, its not particularly hard to learn, we just have an extremely stupid combo of both methods.  I can buy a gallon of milk, or a two liter bottle of coke.  Why on earth can't they pick one? 

I can go buy sets of either standard or metric tools, why the hell are both offered?  In every science and physics class you do everything in the metric system (in the University of California system), because they know that you are going to have to work with a global community.

But yeah, its annoying that we still use a combo of both, rather than just one.  The metric system is cleaner and neater, and much more intuitive.

Didn't the shuttle fall out of the sky because someone messed up converting metric to imperial on something?

Not a shuttle, the mars orbiter smacked into mars because of a forgotten conversion, not a messed up conversion.  This is why we need to pick on system or the other.

Yeah I thought it was something like that.

*

Saddam Hussein

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Re: Gun Control
« Reply #1289 on: January 02, 2013, 01:14:43 PM »
The conspiracy has an active imagination.