Proof of a round earth?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #60 on: December 25, 2008, 06:19:20 PM »
Quote
Performing a little work for the government does not instantly imply that the whole company has fallen under the complete and total control of said government.

Yes it does. Before you work for the government you need sign confidential contracts and agreements stipulating who you can and can't do business with, how you run your business, who you hire, and how your business is run even long after you are no longer contracting for the government. If you want to work for the government and contract your people out to work in sensitive fields you have to give up complete and total control of your procedures to the government.

Each contractor has a number of security officers assigned to it, depending on the size of the contracting firm. Government security officers are assigned to your company to ensure that it is doing what the government wants it to do and that it is following the procedures and instructions laid out by the government.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 06:30:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

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grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #61 on: December 25, 2008, 07:11:07 PM »
Since Tom knows so much about the government, I think he works for it. He just doesn't want to tell us about it.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #62 on: December 25, 2008, 07:14:13 PM »
I think I found him out

http://www.ertcorp.com/management.php

"Tom Bishop

Chief Engineer

Mr. Tom Bishop joined Earth Resources Technology, Inc., in 2008 as Chief Engineer and Manager of Science and Technology Programs. Mr. Bishop has responsibility for developing ERT?s engineering practices and ensuring that ERT offers quality and effective technical solutions to its government customers.

Mr. Bishop has over 30 years experience as a Program Manager and Systems Engineer, with emphasis on the support of spacecraft remote sensing data processing and high technology systems for government and commercial customers. Prior to joining ERT, he served as Program Manager for NOAA?s Environmental Satellite Processing Center at Perot Systems.  At Raytheon, he was the site manager for NASA?s Ames Research Center managing 3 contracts, over 70 task orders, and a staff of 275 personnel.

At Raytheon, He was also Project Manager and Chief Engineer for the China Brazil Earth Resources Satellite (CBERS) Data Processing System (CDPS)?a turnkey system to acquire and process the data from the CBERS mission. He worked closely with end users and instrument manufacturers to determine the system requirements. He was responsible for all aspects of the project including export licensing and deploying the developed system to China.

He received his Bachelor?s Degree in Computer Science from Virginia Tech.
"

Nice try Tom, but we got ya.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 07:36:26 PM by grogberries »
Think hard. Think Flat.

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Johannes

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2008, 07:31:15 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

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avsfan987

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2008, 08:26:38 PM »


Nice try Tom, but we got ya.

haha, looks like the gig is up.

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2008, 10:17:09 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Jack

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2008, 10:20:13 PM »
I think I found him out

http://www.ertcorp.com/management.php

"Tom Bishop

Chief Engineer

Mr. Tom Bishop joined Earth Resources Technology, Inc., in 2008 as Chief Engineer and Manager of Science and Technology Programs. Mr. Bishop has responsibility for developing ERT?s engineering practices and ensuring that ERT offers quality and effective technical solutions to its government customers.

Mr. Bishop has over 30 years experience as a Program Manager and Systems Engineer, with emphasis on the support of spacecraft remote sensing data processing and high technology systems for government and commercial customers. Prior to joining ERT, he served as Program Manager for NOAA?s Environmental Satellite Processing Center at Perot Systems.  At Raytheon, he was the site manager for NASA?s Ames Research Center managing 3 contracts, over 70 task orders, and a staff of 275 personnel.

At Raytheon, He was also Project Manager and Chief Engineer for the China Brazil Earth Resources Satellite (CBERS) Data Processing System (CDPS)?a turnkey system to acquire and process the data from the CBERS mission. He worked closely with end users and instrument manufacturers to determine the system requirements. He was responsible for all aspects of the project including export licensing and deploying the developed system to China.

He received his Bachelor?s Degree in Computer Science from Virginia Tech.
"

Nice try Tom, but we got ya.
There are a lot of Tom Bishops in this world.

Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
Of course, the curvature around the edge of the Earth.

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2008, 10:22:25 PM »
Quote
Performing a little work for the government does not instantly imply that the whole company has fallen under the complete and total control of said government.

Yes it does. Before you work for the government you need sign confidential contracts and agreements stipulating who you can and can't do business with, how you run your business, who you hire, and how your business is run even long after you are no longer contracting for the government. If you want to work for the government and contract your people out to work in sensitive fields you have to give up complete and total control of your procedures to the government.

Each contractor has a number of security officers assigned to it, depending on the size of the contracting firm. Government security officers are assigned to your company to ensure that it is doing what the government wants it to do and that it is following the procedures and instructions laid out by the government.

Tom, I don't suppose that it's worth the effort to ask you for evidence to support this claim, is it?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2008, 10:25:25 PM »
I think I found him out

http://www.ertcorp.com/management.php

"Tom Bishop

Chief Engineer

Mr. Tom Bishop joined Earth Resources Technology, Inc., in 2008 as Chief Engineer and Manager of Science and Technology Programs. Mr. Bishop has responsibility for developing ERT?s engineering practices and ensuring that ERT offers quality and effective technical solutions to its government customers.

Mr. Bishop has over 30 years experience as a Program Manager and Systems Engineer, with emphasis on the support of spacecraft remote sensing data processing and high technology systems for government and commercial customers. Prior to joining ERT, he served as Program Manager for NOAA?s Environmental Satellite Processing Center at Perot Systems.  At Raytheon, he was the site manager for NASA?s Ames Research Center managing 3 contracts, over 70 task orders, and a staff of 275 personnel.

At Raytheon, He was also Project Manager and Chief Engineer for the China Brazil Earth Resources Satellite (CBERS) Data Processing System (CDPS)?a turnkey system to acquire and process the data from the CBERS mission. He worked closely with end users and instrument manufacturers to determine the system requirements. He was responsible for all aspects of the project including export licensing and deploying the developed system to China.

He received his Bachelor?s Degree in Computer Science from Virginia Tech.
"

Nice try Tom, but we got ya.
There are a lot of Tom Bishops in this world.


You have not proved it is not him.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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Jack

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2008, 10:26:05 PM »
And you have yet to prove that it is him.

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #70 on: December 25, 2008, 10:28:34 PM »
Our Tom Bishop claims to live on the west coast.  ERT is an east coast company.  Sorry.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #71 on: December 25, 2008, 10:31:44 PM »
If he works for NASA, odds are he's going to lie a lot. He can't be trusted.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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The One True Rat

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2008, 11:01:19 PM »
not all NASA employees know of the conspiracy, they just get a paycheck.
also, is it not possible that Tom is attempting to expose the conspiracy from the inside?

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grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #73 on: December 25, 2008, 11:10:06 PM »
This is an interesting proposal the one true rat, but I think he's mad at his boss for something. He probably didn't get the raise he wanted or was kicked of the business soccer team. Who knows. Its probably a personal matter he's trying to settle scores with. It happens all the time.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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NTheGreat

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2008, 06:24:00 AM »
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Yes it does. Before you work for the government you need sign confidential contracts and agreements stipulating who you can and can't do business with, how you run your business, who you hire, and how your business is run even long after you are no longer contracting for the government. If you want to work for the government and contract your people out to work in sensitive fields you have to give up complete and total control of your procedures to the government.

Each contractor has a number of security officers assigned to it, depending on the size of the contracting firm. Government security officers are assigned to your company to ensure that it is doing what the government wants it to do and that it is following the procedures and instructions laid out by the government.

Far as I can see, government contracts are much the same as commercial ones, with the extra requirement that the contract is constrained by certain pieces of publicly available legislation, and the whole thing needs to be very well documented. Not sure where this 'whole company falls under control of the government' stuff is.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2008, 08:36:19 AM »
Quote
Far as I can see, government contracts are much the same as commercial ones, with the extra requirement that the contract is constrained by certain pieces of publicly available legislation, and the whole thing needs to be very well documented. Not sure where this 'whole company falls under control of the government' stuff is.

Sounds like you haven't worked for very many government contractors then.

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NTheGreat

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #76 on: December 26, 2008, 09:53:10 AM »
Quote
Sounds like you haven't worked for very many government contractors then.

Do you have any evidence suggesting that the government takes control once a contract is made? Simply saying 'It works this way' doesn't really show anything.

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Johannes

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #77 on: December 26, 2008, 10:27:44 AM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #78 on: December 26, 2008, 01:33:05 PM »
Quote
Far as I can see, government contracts are much the same as commercial ones, with the extra requirement that the contract is constrained by certain pieces of publicly available legislation, and the whole thing needs to be very well documented. Not sure where this 'whole company falls under control of the government' stuff is.

Sounds like you haven't worked for very many government contractors then.

Have you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2008, 01:34:15 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #80 on: December 26, 2008, 01:58:52 PM »
Quote
Sounds like you haven't worked for very many government contractors then.

Do you have any evidence suggesting that the government takes control once a contract is made? Simply saying 'It works this way' doesn't really show anything.

So you think that government aerospace and military contractors are free to work with whatever foreign nation they want and hire whoever they want to send into the government's secured bases?  ???
« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 02:12:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Johannes

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2008, 02:16:07 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Proof?

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2008, 02:50:17 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Proof?

Take a close look at this picture.  Study the glow of the atmosphere near the edge of the "sun's spotlight".  Notice how there is a sharp edge where the earth stops but the atmosphere continues.  If that were a spotlight, then there would still be earth visible within the glowing area as it fades to black.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Ravenwood240

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2008, 02:52:57 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Proof?

Take a close look at this picture.  Study the glow of the atmosphere near the edge of the "sun's spotlight".  Notice how there is a sharp edge where the earth stops but the atmosphere continues.  If that were a spotlight, then there would still be earth visible within the glowing area as it fades to black.

Lovely picture.  Haven't you learned yet that no picture is acceptable proof of anything?  I can show you a picture of two aliens having sex, or men landing on any one of a thousand planets.

All that picture proves is that whoever made it did a very nice job.
Belief gets in the way of learning.  If you believe something, you've closed your mind to any further thought.  I know some things, little things, not the nine million names of God.

(Paraphased from R.A. Heinlein's "Time Enough For Love.")

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2008, 02:58:43 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Proof?

Take a close look at this picture.  Study the glow of the atmosphere near the edge of the "sun's spotlight".  Notice how there is a sharp edge where the earth stops but the atmosphere continues.  If that were a spotlight, then there would still be earth visible within the glowing area as it fades to black.

Lovely picture.  Haven't you learned yet that no picture is acceptable proof of anything?  I can show you a picture of two aliens having sex, or men landing on any one of a thousand planets.

All that picture proves is that whoever made it did a very nice job.
Then why are photographs used on court cases all the time?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Ravenwood240

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #85 on: December 26, 2008, 03:03:41 PM »
Space flight is not impossible in FET. What does scaled composites have to do with anything? Nothing they did breaks FET.

Except for being able to plainly see the curvature of the earth.
This is due to the suns spotlight.
No.  The sun's spotlight would appear different from the curvature of the earth.
Proof?

Take a close look at this picture.  Study the glow of the atmosphere near the edge of the "sun's spotlight".  Notice how there is a sharp edge where the earth stops but the atmosphere continues.  If that were a spotlight, then there would still be earth visible within the glowing area as it fades to black.

Lovely picture.  Haven't you learned yet that no picture is acceptable proof of anything?  I can show you a picture of two aliens having sex, or men landing on any one of a thousand planets.

All that picture proves is that whoever made it did a very nice job.
Then why are photographs used on court cases all the time?

For the same reason we would accept a photo here... The chain of evidence.  You get a camera, buy the film, keep both in your possession or securely locked away at all times until you take the pictures on the roll.  Keep the film and camera with you, using the same security, have the film developed, preferably by an uninterested third party under observation, and hand carry those pics to one of us, with step by step proof of your security, like the forensics teams do with their pics, and we'll accept it.
Belief gets in the way of learning.  If you believe something, you've closed your mind to any further thought.  I know some things, little things, not the nine million names of God.

(Paraphased from R.A. Heinlein's "Time Enough For Love.")

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NTheGreat

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #86 on: December 26, 2008, 06:03:29 PM »
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So you think that government aerospace and military contractors are free to work with whatever foreign nation they want and hire whoever they want to send into the government's secured bases?

I would image that the contractors are free to do the job however they want. I doubt that any of these contracts involve the workers wandering around inside secret bases, however, so I don't see the need for some kind of total control on the company.

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grogberries

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2008, 06:14:02 PM »
If you corrected that photo for bendy light you would find the edge would be quite flat.
Think hard. Think Flat.

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markjo

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2008, 08:27:35 PM »
If you corrected that photo for bendy light you would find the edge would be quite flat.

The shape of the edge is irrelevant.  The fact that there is a distinct edge where you see atmospheric glow above, but no earth fading into night is what is important.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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C-Ray

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Re: Proof of a round earth?
« Reply #89 on: December 29, 2008, 12:43:09 PM »
Quote
What does being a government contractor have to do with the fact that Scaled Composites had to abide by the rules of the Ansari X Prize in order to collect their $10 million?

Being a government aerospace contractor means that they are working closely with NASA and the DOD.

Quote
My wife is a government contractor and she works out of our house in Savannah Georgia.

Is she under contract to do whatever the government tells her to do? Does she report to and work directly under a government manager?

My point was that government contractors are really just temp workers the government hires to manage directly. There really isn't any difference between a government employee and a government contractor. They are both given the same secret clearance and sign the same classified agreements. The government uses contractors because they are cheaper and can be terminated at any time without having to worry about benefits.

Raytheon, for example, is just a face name for the government. There really isn't a Raytheon. It's a temp agency. Their employees are all working in government facilities for government managers. The same goes for the other government contractors. They're all temp agencies.

She works for a private company that does contract work for the DoD.  The government does not run the company, there are no stationed security forces on the premises.  They do have to abide by certain security measures, but that is only to keep the contract, only the security guards, paid by the company not the government, the president (my wife) and the owner of the company are allowed on the premises after 6pm.  Everyone else security card only works during certain hours of the day.  When I visit I am escorted on the the premises by the security guard, they are just regular security people like at the mall and stuff.  They do have other contracts that they work on as well.  Not everyone employed in the company works with the government contract, in fact they hire between 10 and 20 interns every summer for work on their other contracts through the university.  Their other contracts take them all over the world, to many different nations, the government doesn't care as long as their work and research is done.  No one in the company is an employee of the government, all checks have the companies name on them not the US government's.  They conduct the company affairs the way they see fit, the government has nothing to do with the day to day operations.  They report time, research and findings and that is it.  Every few years they go to Washington and reapply for the contract, basing the previous years of work on the money they ask for (whether they need more or less).  The only thing that they can't do is discuss this government work with people outside of the project, specifics anyway, even I know the general gist of the work that is being done.  They sign the contracts saying that the accounting for the project, time, materials, research needs, special items will all be accounted for; then they sign nondisclosure agreements and that is it.  If they don't keep track of everything they lose the contract.  That is the extent of the control the government has, how much money if any they are given, granted all that is based on the work they do and records they keep.  All their computers are purchased through a special process through Apple, yes the whole company runs on Mac, all retired computers are sent to a government office to wiped clean; after that they can even purchase the computers back if they want, this happens every two years.  You are way off Tom.
The Earth is Round.