A Discussion of Bendy Light

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Idee Unfixe

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #300 on: December 14, 2009, 07:14:34 PM »
I actually don't even see how QED and an aether can work to produce BLT, but I'm sure a Flat Earther can work it out.

Oh Oh - I think I know how!

Not an aether at all, but just occured to me that photons could have some (hitherto undetected) kind of charge and that the flat earth has an opposite charge, as does some kind of ceiling plate. That might work. It does require a large ceiling.




This is in fact BLT Sandwich theory. The BLT field is only present between the sandwich. The top layer of the sandwich is obviously translucent. That, or the stars and nebulae are painted on its lower surface.
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SupahLovah

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #301 on: December 14, 2009, 09:05:08 PM »
Stop quoting yourself, it looks silly.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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Idee Unfixe

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #302 on: December 14, 2009, 09:18:33 PM »
Stop quoting yourself, it looks silly.

I was worried about that.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #303 on: December 15, 2009, 04:59:31 AM »
Don't worry about the equations, there's an extra fail for bendy light.
The Bedford Level Experiment. Either people believe Rowbottom's results were correct, or they believe he was wrong and the results by Wallace (which contradicted Rowbottom's) were correct.
Scenario 1: If Rowbottom is correct - light does not bend, or else he would not have obtained the claimed results.
Scenario 2: If Wallace is correct - bendy light is not necessary because the earth is spherical.
Scenario 2 is actually that Wallace measured a curvature. This only proves that measurements produce a curvature, which can be explained by bendy light or a curved Earth. Rowbottom's experiment contradicts bendy light, but I never believed his experiment in the first place.

Correct, the curvature measured by Wallace could be due to bendy light, but since a round earth fits with other phenomena too (like two celestial poles, eclipses, etc) then there is more evidence for the round earth than the bending light. No other observed effect needs bendy light as an explanation, therefore Bendy light can go the way of the aether - being neither detectable nor necessary to explain anything, it can be assumed nonexistent.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Idee Unfixe

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #304 on: December 15, 2009, 08:25:12 AM »
No other observed effect needs bendy light as an explanation

That is incorrect. See neutrino threads.

That is, to avoid confusion, that that requires the same explanation.

That is, that that observed effect that must be explained by bendy light is that "that", that being bendy light theory.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 08:30:14 AM by Idee Unfixe »
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sry4mnknd

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #305 on: December 15, 2009, 03:23:37 PM »
WHAT!? magical superforce? are you serious? i am truly beginning to feel sorry for you. there was an EXPERIMENT! look it up! im truly baffled on what makes you think that the earth is flat. what about outer space pictures? why the hell would they cover this up? that would be ludicrous. please tell me

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ERTW

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #306 on: December 15, 2009, 03:29:10 PM »
WHAT!? magical superforce? are you serious? i am truly beginning to feel sorry for you. there was an EXPERIMENT! look it up! im truly baffled on what makes you think that the earth is flat. what about outer space pictures? why the hell would they cover this up? that would be ludicrous. please tell me
If you are actually curious about these questions you should use the thread search function. Notice that there are a hundreds of thousands of posts on this forum about these same topics.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Skeleton

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #307 on: December 15, 2009, 06:04:11 PM »
That is, that that observed effect that must be explained by bendy light is that "that", that being bendy light theory.

Wow, 6 "thats" in one sentence, 3 of them consecutive.
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zork

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Re: A Discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #308 on: June 04, 2010, 12:27:14 PM »
So no experiments can be provided then?
Yes, there are.
Visual observation is quite good - http://www.optics.arizona.edu/Nofziger/UNVR195a/Class2/C2P3.htm
And there are multiple simple experiments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Describe_an_experiment_that_show%27s_how_light_travels_in_a_straight_line
http://www.teachersdomain.org/resource/lsps07.sci.phys.energy.lighttravel/
And so on.
 And there is no visual observations for bending light. There are reflections and refractions but not one observation about bendy light. So, no any bendy light experiments and observations as there are no experiments and observations about The Flat Earth.
Rowbotham had bad eyesight
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http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #309 on: June 04, 2010, 05:31:27 PM »
Actually they are. Light can bend in both theories, and there is acceleration in both theories without an apparent mechanism for it. All arguments against bendy light and the UA involve "LOL IT DEOSNT HAPPAN", which is wrong no matter what you believe, so saying that is just shutting up stupid noobs or making them find some points worth debating.

You're troubled, my friend.

We, round earthers, have a very well-placed argument.  Since the human race has observed the Earth from space, we can conclude that the UA is not real and that your theory of how light bends is incorrect and unnecessary.  The idea of a mass conspiracy is so far'fetched that it cannot be taken seriously.  Are you telling me every party that would have been involved (we're talking millions of people) were so good at keeping this under wraps, that the entire public never learned about one of the biggest frauds in history.  Please tell me then, if they are so good at doing this, how you guys were able to expose this obvious leak of information?  Why wouldn't you have sold this information to any major media for millions upon millions of dollars?  Because... you are all full of ships; and the earth is round... just deal with it.

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markjo

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #310 on: June 04, 2010, 06:15:23 PM »
Since the human race has observed the Earth from space...

That is, of course, assuming that all of the world's space programs aren't involved in a 50+ year hoax.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #311 on: June 04, 2010, 06:31:41 PM »
Since the human race has observed the Earth from space...

That is, of course, assuming that all of the world's space programs aren't involved in a 50+ year hoax.

A hoax that would have inevitably shown itself due to our quick expansion in higher technology since the time of the Apollo missions.  The private sector has broken into this market already.  If it were a hoax, it would have been discovered a long time ago; the conspiracy sounds more like wishful thinking to me...

--And a side note on that; the major fundamental problem with the hoax theory is that it requires the Soviet Union (late 50's) and the United States to be working together.  Is someone gunna tell me that the historians are in on this conspiracy too?  I love this website because it is just so creative!  But alas, I just cannot believe it. :(
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 06:44:35 PM by the flying russian »

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markjo

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #312 on: June 04, 2010, 07:14:29 PM »
Since the human race has observed the Earth from space...

That is, of course, assuming that all of the world's space programs aren't involved in a 50+ year hoax.

A hoax that would have inevitably shown itself due to our quick expansion in higher technology since the time of the Apollo missions.  The private sector has broken into this market already.  If it were a hoax, it would have been discovered a long time ago; the conspiracy sounds more like wishful thinking to me...

--And a side note on that; the major fundamental problem with the hoax theory is that it requires the Soviet Union (late 50's) and the United States to be working together.  Is someone gunna tell me that the historians are in on this conspiracy too?  I love this website because it is just so creative!  But alas, I just cannot believe it. :(

Lurk moar.  The conspiracy is some of this site's most creative work.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #313 on: June 05, 2010, 03:19:55 PM »
Since the human race has observed the Earth from space...

That is, of course, assuming that all of the world's space programs aren't involved in a 50+ year hoax.

A hoax that would have inevitably shown itself due to our quick expansion in higher technology since the time of the Apollo missions.  The private sector has broken into this market already.  If it were a hoax, it would have been discovered a long time ago; the conspiracy sounds more like wishful thinking to me...

--And a side note on that; the major fundamental problem with the hoax theory is that it requires the Soviet Union (late 50's) and the United States to be working together.  Is someone gunna tell me that the historians are in on this conspiracy too?  I love this website because it is just so creative!  But alas, I just cannot believe it. :(

Lurk moar.  The conspiracy is some of this site's most creative work.

I've read this entire website, I don't need to lurk any further.  The conspiracy is something that was made up in order to fill a gaping hole in their theory.  This is backwards, and this is not science; in fact, it is just plain illogical.  Now, if FErs were actually able to provide evidence that supports a conspiracy and conclude, based off of that (usually a collection of) evidence, then that would be much less far'fetched.  Sadly, they have not provided any credible evidence to date; I am forced to reject their theory.  :-\

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #314 on: June 05, 2010, 03:31:04 PM »
I've read this entire website, I don't need to lurk any further.  The conspiracy is something that was made up in order to fill a gaping hole in their theory.  This is backwards, and this is not science; in fact, it is just plain illogical.  Now, if FErs were actually able to provide evidence that supports a conspiracy and conclude, based off of that (usually a collection of) evidence, then that would be much less far'fetched.  Sadly, they have not provided any credible evidence to date; I am forced to reject their theory.  :-\

Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.  Or, looked at another way, if it's the case that the view from space is impossible if the Earth is flat, and the Earth is flat, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.  It's not illogical; it's essentially a corollary to FET, as it's not necessary for a Conspiracy to exist if the generally-held FET is true, but as conditions do exist, if the generally-held FET is true, a Conspiracy must exist.  Actually, it's highly logical, as logic is the only real reason to believe it.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #315 on: June 05, 2010, 05:10:19 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #316 on: June 06, 2010, 03:46:18 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lorddave

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #317 on: June 06, 2010, 04:10:33 PM »
Since the human race has observed the Earth from space...

That is, of course, assuming that all of the world's space programs aren't involved in a 50+ year hoax.

A hoax that would have inevitably shown itself due to our quick expansion in higher technology since the time of the Apollo missions.  The private sector has broken into this market already.  If it were a hoax, it would have been discovered a long time ago; the conspiracy sounds more like wishful thinking to me...

--And a side note on that; the major fundamental problem with the hoax theory is that it requires the Soviet Union (late 50's) and the United States to be working together.  Is someone gunna tell me that the historians are in on this conspiracy too?  I love this website because it is just so creative!  But alas, I just cannot believe it. :(

Lurk moar.  The conspiracy is some of this site's most creative work.

I've read this entire website, I don't need to lurk any further.  The conspiracy is something that was made up in order to fill a gaping hole in their theory.  This is backwards, and this is not science; in fact, it is just plain illogical.  Now, if FErs were actually able to provide evidence that supports a conspiracy and conclude, based off of that (usually a collection of) evidence, then that would be much less far'fetched.  Sadly, they have not provided any credible evidence to date; I am forced to reject their theory.  :-\

The Flat Earth Society in it's modern form is made up of trolls, the delusional, and devil's advocates.  You can never, ever, ever convince them to admit otherwise or to admit that they lost an argument even if they lose badly.

It's like convincing the Pope to admit there is no God.
As soon as you realize that this is more or less a joke site designed for massive trolling and debate skill practice, you'll be happier. :)
Gone.

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markjo

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #318 on: June 06, 2010, 05:50:18 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #319 on: June 06, 2010, 06:06:01 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?

I have no idea if he's a legitimate FEer.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Sliver

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #320 on: June 06, 2010, 06:08:13 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?

I have no idea if he's a legitimate FEer.
But you are saying he makes irrational arguments.

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Parsifal

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #321 on: June 06, 2010, 06:09:42 PM »
But you are saying he makes irrational arguments.

Incorrect.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #322 on: June 06, 2010, 06:11:58 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?

I have no idea if he's a legitimate FEer.
But you are saying he makes irrational arguments.

Do you disagree?  ???
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #323 on: June 06, 2010, 06:18:37 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy. 

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?

I have no idea if he's a legitimate FEer.

Well, someone must believe that Levee a legitimate FE'er if he's able to post in the believer's forum.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #324 on: June 06, 2010, 06:27:13 PM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.  

Lurk moar.  Levee, possibly the most hard core FE'ers, claims that sustained space flight is possible.  Refer to his ISS/Atlantis transit of the sun photographic proof that the sun is only about 600m or so in diameter.

Note that I didn't say all FEers, and moreover I said that those who do rationally make their arguments.

Are you saying that Levee is not a legitimate FE'er?

I have no idea if he's a legitimate FEer.

Well, someone must believe that Levee a legitimate FE'er if he's able to post in the believer's forum.

I've seen nothing to suggest that he's not a legitimate FEer.  Anyway, I don't set access to the FEB section.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #325 on: June 11, 2010, 09:31:33 AM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.

See the problem with this is that it is an assumption based off of an assumption based off yet another assumption.  The keyword here is "if."  If the earth was proven to be flat then I would have no issue believing it is flat; but that would rely on the idea that the Earth has actually been proven to be flat... which it hasn't.

Going back to a fundamental theory of science, you cannot necessarily prove something to be true, you can only indefinitely prove something to be false.  So perhaps we have not proven the earth to be round; however, we (the human race) have collectively provided substantial and replicable evidence to indicate that the world is a sphere.  Unfortunately, flat earth theory lacks this kind abundance of evidence.  Rather, flat earth theory relies on raw observations (viewed through the limitation of the human eye) and an archaic text that convincingly resembles what the bible is to a catholic (I choose this analogy not to bash catholics or religion, but rather show that flat earth theory seems to be more of a faith based idealogy rather than a plausible scientific theory).

Or, looked at another way, if it's the case that the view from space is impossible if the Earth is flat, and the Earth is flat, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.  It's not illogical; it's essentially a corollary to FET, as it's not necessary for a Conspiracy to exist if the generally-held FET is true, but as conditions do exist, if the generally-held FET is true, a Conspiracy must exist.  Actually, it's highly logical, as logic is the only real reason to believe it.

Ok, I see your basic logic, but I still believe that this is backwards science; reason being, in order for this to be true you have to completely ignore the copious amount of evidence that already exists which supports a a round earth.  Not to sound counterintuitive, but to me, this sounds like irrational logic.  I understand what you mean by the existance of a conspiracy being a corollary to flat earth theory but an equally as strong argument could be that the flat earth theory being false is a corollary of the non-existance of a conspiracy... it works both ways, and one's legitimacy over another soley relies on evidence, evidence and some more evidence.  Again, with Ockham's razor in mind, I am forced to stick with round earth theory.

And to further my point... the defining aspect of pseudoscience: "is often used to describe scientific hypotheses or conclusions which, while perhaps legitimate in themselves, are believed to be used to support a position that is seen as not legitimately justified by the totality of evidence."

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #326 on: June 11, 2010, 09:39:20 AM »
The Flat Earth Society in it's modern form is made up of trolls, the delusional, and devil's advocates.  You can never, ever, ever convince them to admit otherwise or to admit that they lost an argument even if they lose badly.

It's like convincing the Pope to admit there is no God.
As soon as you realize that this is more or less a joke site designed for massive trolling and debate skill practice, you'll be happier. :)

I agree, I have learned more about physics and debating in this forum then I ever have in any class I've taken in the past.  Funny though... considering the purpose and ideals behind this website.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #327 on: June 11, 2010, 11:36:56 AM »
Well, it's very simple.  If it's been proven that the Earth is flat, as any legitimate FEer will claim is the case, and if sustained spaceflight is impossible if the Earth is flat, as many FEers rationally argue is the case, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.

See the problem with this is that it is an assumption based off of an assumption based off yet another assumption.  The keyword here is "if."  If the earth was proven to be flat then I would have no issue believing it is flat; but that would rely on the idea that the Earth has actually been proven to be flat... which it hasn't.

A genuine FE believer would disagree with you.  For them it's not a question of "if".

Quote
Or, looked at another way, if it's the case that the view from space is impossible if the Earth is flat, and the Earth is flat, then space exploration must be a Conspiracy.  It's not illogical; it's essentially a corollary to FET, as it's not necessary for a Conspiracy to exist if the generally-held FET is true, but as conditions do exist, if the generally-held FET is true, a Conspiracy must exist.  Actually, it's highly logical, as logic is the only real reason to believe it.

Ok, I see your basic logic, but I still believe that this is backwards science; reason being, in order for this to be true you have to completely ignore the copious amount of evidence that already exists which supports a a round earth.  Not to sound counterintuitive, but to me, this sounds like irrational logic.

Again, it's a question of whether or not you believe a FE has been proven.  I agree with you that it hasn't, but there are some here who believe that it has.  For them, some sort of conspiracy is an inevitable consequence of the proven facts.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #328 on: June 11, 2010, 12:45:34 PM »
Again, it's a question of whether or not you believe a FE has been proven.  I agree with you that it hasn't, but there are some here who believe that it has.  For them, some sort of conspiracy is an inevitable consequence of the proven facts.

I can understand the logic behind that assumption, yes... but, therein lies the fundamental problem of believing something that has been proven; it either has... or hasn't and cannot be both.  If an idea or theory had been proven, there would be no need for a conviction that it has or has not been proven.  The reason I say this is because you cannot argue the legitimacy of a fact... if it indeed is a fact.  In fact, if there was substantial evidence (proof) that we live on a flat earth, this website's existance would be unecessary.  Let me make myself clear, I am not saying you cannot hold a belief established from facts... what I am saying is you cannot hold a belief about a fact's validity.  Bottom line, if it has been proven, there is no need for an argument... and since there is an argument, it hasn't been proven.

However, to make this point moot, nothing can be proven true.  You can only prove something false.  So who is right?  Whoever has more replicable (concrete) evidence; and in that case, flat earth theory has a very very long uphill battle.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: A discussion of Bendy Light
« Reply #329 on: June 11, 2010, 12:49:55 PM »
Again, it's a question of whether or not you believe a FE has been proven.  I agree with you that it hasn't, but there are some here who believe that it has.  For them, some sort of conspiracy is an inevitable consequence of the proven facts.

I can understand the logic behind that assumption, yes... but, therein lies the fundamental problem of believing something that has been proven; it either has... or hasn't and cannot be both.  If an idea or theory had been proven, there would be no need for a conviction that it has or has not been proven. 

Since you seem so interested in arguing semantics would it help if I said that for all intents and purposes, so far as the issue applies to the question at hand, FEers know that FE has been proven?  You and I just frame it as belief because we disagree with them; FEers don't see it as a belief, but as the truth, period.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?