Issues and Concerns

It was probably the bad debating thing, but that's a teeny bit of an understatement. Every single thread he was in degenerated to trolling, and every time it could be traced to a stupid, uninformed or provocative post he made. But that's just an assumption.

In the thread I referenced, it was Hara who started the argument.

I think you'll find that using anything other than "macfag" or "ginger" to insult Hara is a bannable offence.

I think you'll find that using anything other than "macfag" or "ginger" to insult Hara is a bannable offence.

So in other words if hara can't take the heat he kicks people out of his kitchen?

No offense but that seems petty. Most of my comments are bullshit and a lot of threads get derailed but several of the regular posters. I too would be interested in the real reason kingman was banned. He never really pissed me off that badly. He was like a fun human punching bag, quite fun sometimes.

Do mods actually reply to questions posed here?

Why exactly was KingMan banned?  I'm not trying to baw, but I don't see how he violated any rules.  It looks like he was banned following an exchange with Hara in the "post an image of yourself" thread, which dissolved into personal attacks back and forth.  Suddenly, KingMan showed up in an alt to announce that he had been banned.

Yes, KingMan wasn't very good at debating, and he held some bizarre views, but I don't recall him ever being intentionally disruptive.  All we had were vague suspicions that he was trolling.  But even if he wasn't really so evangelical, is there a rule against pretending that he was?  Oscar was not only permitted to stay, but was actively supported by the mods when he pretended to be a lesbian.  Some members here have cast doubt on whether or not I am truly Saddam Hussein, but I've never got into trouble over it.  And let's not forget Narcberry, who was far more of a troll than KingMan, yet when he was finally banned, it was because of his spamming and insulting members.

If I've made a mistake or misjudged the situation, then I'm sorry.  I usually support the mods, but I can't help getting a feeling that KingMan was banned out of personal dislike.

He doesn't contribute.

Ever.

He's also the WORST debater ever, and extremely ignorant. Frankly, if you can't even understand the concept of "argue properly", you really need to GTFO. It has nothing to do with not "taking the heat". I don't have to explain every ban I make. I only needed to make them in the notes while performing the ban. If you are banned, it's going to be for a reason, I never just lay the hammer down whenever I feel like it or when it seems I suddenly can't "take the heat".

As for Oscar, it's the opposite. While he partakes in the derailments, there is also something to note of his contributions.  You cannot compare those two. There is a clear difference. Also, kingman had an alt during the no alts part. He was banned once before for that specific reason, but for some reason was soon unbanned. Oscar is allowed to stay because the older accounts are not active and has directly come to us and informed us of the changes he was intending on making. The support of the apparent lesbianism was in his request, if I recall.

The general idea is simple: Don't be a fucking asshat. I know who can and cannot understand plain english. If you cannot understand when several members tell you that you cannot debate, are made of fail, and continue to act in the fashion that creates such comments, then you really shouldn't be here. Most of his remarks were in the supposedly serious threads that he created or participated in. Now, if he wished to do that stuff in CN where it belonged in the first place he would still be here. But he broke the rules several times on his own accord, and I personally let it slide several times after several of you asked him to debate a little more maturely. He failed to comply, and I had enough of it.

Is that good enough or are we back to the old "Hara is a tyrant and needs to explain every itty bitty bit to me" ordeal?

Kingman made an alt during the no alts part? I thought he made the alt before that, and just admitted to it during the no alts part

Kingman made an alt during the no alts part? I thought he made the alt before that, and just admitted to it during the no alts part

Either way, it doesn't apply to this ban.

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on March 05, 2009, 10:12:46 PM

Kingman made an alt during the no alts part? I thought he made the alt before that, and just admitted to it during the no alts part

Either way, it doesn't apply to this ban.

Then why did you mention it? And if you're gonna ban people for being poor debators and being ignorant we're not gonna get a lot of new people here

Quote from: Hara Taiki on March 05, 2009, 10:13:13 PM

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on March 05, 2009, 10:12:46 PM

Kingman made an alt during the no alts part? I thought he made the alt before that, and just admitted to it during the no alts part

Either way, it doesn't apply to this ban.

Then why did you mention it? And if you're gonna ban people for being poor debators and being ignorant we're not gonna get a lot of new people here

I brought it up because Saddam wanted to question Oscar's "ban evasion" because of the several accounts made, but I explained why it was allowed. Also, if you read, I said that I banned him for breaking the rules. Specifically the one that says to not derail the serious stuff. In several serious threads (specifically the ones dealing with theology) he would derail and flame. You all asked him to debate properly, and he continues to act retarded. The reason most of you don't end up that way is because I know (and I believe the other mods do as well) that you ARE capable of debating properly when applicable. Not every flame gets accounted for (hell I work all day and I know that most are all in good jest, KingMan's never was) but when it gets to a point where people are constantly telling you to shape up and you don't and it's obviously becoming a problem according to the rules, we have no choice. I was letting it slide for so long and I just said fuck it because as a mod, I am bound to the rules really. He spammed/flamed/derailed constantly and it had to be stopped.

I have no issue removing the ban if he can change his posting methods and actually engage in proper conversation, thinking and debate exercises instead of calling everyone retarded or repeating "irony" in what's supposed to be a real discussion. This has nothing to do with my ego (which you all should know is just a running joke anyway [well, sorta], if you don't, then you're retarded) or my lack of being able to "take the heat".

But remember, just because I ban someone and don't tell you doesn't mean I did it illegitimately. I don't have to explain it to you at all if I don't feel like it. But nearly all "major" bans are noted in the ban list that we moderate. So rest assured, the job's being done properly.

This is the only ban I asked about. Perhaps i was a bit hasty in my wording, i suppose it my have been insulting. But I was unaware what rule he broke.

I have no personal beef with you hara, i get your persona, and you seem alright by me. Thanks for clarifying your position on this.

Alrighty then.

Meh. Hara didn't ban him. he just likes the attention. I banned him ten minutes before Hara even made that post about it.

Meh. Hara didn't ban him. he just likes the attention. I banned him ten minutes before Hara even made that post about it.

In that case....why did you ban him you bastard? Bad mod! BAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also why is noone moving the current /b/tard posts from general discussion and debate forums to angry ranting. There are quite a few new ones as of this moment.

Done.

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on March 05, 2009, 03:08:41 PM

Why exactly was KingMan banned?  I'm not trying to baw, but I don't see how he violated any rules.  It looks like he was banned following an exchange with Hara in the "post an image of yourself" thread, which dissolved into personal attacks back and forth.  Suddenly, KingMan showed up in an alt to announce that he had been banned.

Yes, KingMan wasn't very good at debating, and he held some bizarre views, but I don't recall him ever being intentionally disruptive.  All we had were vague suspicions that he was trolling.  But even if he wasn't really so evangelical, is there a rule against pretending that he was?  Oscar was not only permitted to stay, but was actively supported by the mods when he pretended to be a lesbian.  Some members here have cast doubt on whether or not I am truly Saddam Hussein, but I've never got into trouble over it.  And let's not forget Narcberry, who was far more of a troll than KingMan, yet when he was finally banned, it was because of his spamming and insulting members.

If I've made a mistake or misjudged the situation, then I'm sorry.  I usually support the mods, but I can't help getting a feeling that KingMan was banned out of personal dislike.

He doesn't contribute.

Ever.

He's also the WORST debater ever, and extremely ignorant. Frankly, if you can't even understand the concept of "argue properly", you really need to GTFO. It has nothing to do with not "taking the heat". I don't have to explain every ban I make. I only needed to make them in the notes while performing the ban. If you are banned, it's going to be for a reason, I never just lay the hammer down whenever I feel like it or when it seems I suddenly can't "take the heat".

As for Oscar, it's the opposite. While he partakes in the derailments, there is also something to note of his contributions.  You cannot compare those two. There is a clear difference. Also, kingman had an alt during the no alts part. He was banned once before for that specific reason, but for some reason was soon unbanned. Oscar is allowed to stay because the older accounts are not active and has directly come to us and informed us of the changes he was intending on making. The support of the apparent lesbianism was in his request, if I recall.

The general idea is simple: Don't be a fucking asshat. I know who can and cannot understand plain english. If you cannot understand when several members tell you that you cannot debate, are made of fail, and continue to act in the fashion that creates such comments, then you really shouldn't be here. Most of his remarks were in the supposedly serious threads that he created or participated in. Now, if he wished to do that stuff in CN where it belonged in the first place he would still be here. But he broke the rules several times on his own accord, and I personally let it slide several times after several of you asked him to debate a little more maturely. He failed to comply, and I had enough of it.

Is that good enough or are we back to the old "Hara is a tyrant and needs to explain every itty bitty bit to me" ordeal?

Fair enough.  Thanks for explaining.

I mainly have a question for whatever mod wants to help me here. I stopped receiving any notifications for new replies to my email box today. I haven't marked FES as spam on hotmail nor are the messages going to spam. Nor have i changed my settings on here.

I also replied to a few messages in active threads 10 minutes ago and even with new replies still no notifications in my email box at hotmail. Is this something I am doing wrong or what? Would appreciate a serious reply thanks.

I don't think it is supposed to do that unless you use the notify function.

Thanks for the reply and i know. I was receiving notifications since i started here. That stopped as of about 11am today and i haven't received one since...

As for Oscar, it's the opposite. While he partakes in the derailments, there is also something to note of his contributions.  You cannot compare those two. There is a clear difference. Also, kingman had an alt during the no alts part. He was banned once before for that specific reason, but for some reason was soon unbanned. Oscar is allowed to stay because the older accounts are not active and has directly come to us and informed us of the changes he was intending on making. The support of the apparent lesbianism was in his request, if I recall.

The general idea is simple: Don't be a fucking asshat. I know who can and cannot understand plain english. If you cannot understand when several members tell you that you cannot debate, are made of fail, and continue to act in the fashion that creates such comments, then you really shouldn't be here. Most of his remarks were in the supposedly serious threads that he created or participated in. Now, if he wished to do that stuff in CN where it belonged in the first place he would still be here. But he broke the rules several times on his own accord, and I personally let it slide several times after several of you asked him to debate a little more maturely. He failed to comply, and I had enough of it.

Is that good enough or are we back to the old "Hara is a tyrant and needs to explain every itty bitty bit to me" ordeal?

We should sticky this post for those wanting to learn how to make a good troll or alt.

Thanks for the reply and i know. I was receiving notifications since i started here. That stopped as of about 11am today and i haven't received one since...

Go to the profile tab and on the left land side there is a 'notification and email' link.  The option that you want is there.

Quote from: LordTalon69 on March 09, 2009, 05:34:48 PM

Thanks for the reply and i know. I was receiving notifications since i started here. That stopped as of about 11am today and i haven't received one since...

Go to the profile tab and on the left land side there is a 'notification and email' option.  The option that you want is there.

Ya i know it is .... I figured out the problem and it is now working again .. not sure how it happens but its fixed.

We need to get something straight, Mr. Hara Tiki. Your issue with me is not related to this web site. Your issue with me is not related to anyone online. Your issue with me is due to your behavior and my understanding of said behavior, your refusal to acknowledge it, and your refusal to move on from it, which, out of respect for you (believe it or not I still do), will go unmentioned, no matter what befalls us next time. However, your habitual abuse of your "badge" is about to get you into some seriously embarrassing trouble.

If you continue to wantonly and randomly delete my posts, hara-fuck-ie-poo, your days as a mod will disappear with a finality unrivaled in the history of this domain name. I know you're doing it, you know you're doing it, and we both know that the posts you are deleting are NOT inflammatory, are NOT off topic, and are NOT nonsensical bullshit ala Dann. You are doing it simply to remove me from topics of conversation.

As a mod, you do not have the right, nor the freedom, to randomly delete posts because you can. You are instructed to delete/, modify, and etc, when a post is grossly over the limits of the thread or area, and etc. You know better, and of all people, I think higher of you than you have been acting on here to me.

You may think you are above the rules due to some imagined slight from me, but you are just a cog in a machine that outweighs your own footprint. Your badge is a privilege. It can be taken away, and if you are hell bent on your course, you can never say I did not warn you. 

Apparently you have learned nothing about me, and who you are dealing with. Crow it to the mountain, it will not avail you.

Of course you will flap and flex your e-peen and deny my true station because of my spotty attendance of the past months. My appearances, as you should know by now, are not accidental. I am always here, I simply remain silent for much of the time. This is my decision, for reasons you are party to, but will not admit to yourself.

Nothing I post here is ever an accident, nor is it aloof. When I post, the patterns show themselves for what they are. You know this.

You were my friend once. I still view you asa my friend, despite our previous issue [if you care at all, you will message me about that], but your attitude and your INSISTENCE on making me push back is only going to land you in the madhouse. Please attempt civility and leave my posts alone.

If you delete this, it will reappear. If you delete it repeatedly, it will keep coming back to your plate. Daniel has been notified of this post. He has it in his inbox, as well as other places you do not have access to *grin*.

For those of you on a power trip who seem to think you have the structure of the forums understood, you are in for a nightmare of fail. You do not run the show. You ARE the show. Like elected officials, you bastards are here as a service to Daniel and to the people who loyally remain in the ranks. That's it. It isn't a contest for the biggest dick in the bag. It is a duty, period.

If you ban me, or have your overseer do so, you will be highly frustrated at the outcome. I will not go away because you wish to avoid me for personal reasons. Silencing me is an impossible task. You know this. You know me. We are both adults, and we are capable of dialog, as we used to do on the msn and whatnot. If you want to talk to me, you know how to find me. If you persist in this...game, you will find yourself in an absurd situation that will only make you scream at your monitor. Know when to say when, and let's get past our shit, shall we?

The ball is in your court.  No man the fuck up.

Actually I'm the one that deleted your posts when you are just quoting something you already posted because people ignored it. If you want people to read what you write then make it more interesting. Do not spam please.

lol, internet

See what happens when you assume, Mr. Midnight?

Go back to your quiet little world.

Actually I'm the one that deleted your posts when you are just quoting something you already posted because people ignored it. If you want people to read what you write then make it more interesting. Do not spam please.

Not the post in question Raist, but I forgive you. He will not worm around this one. =)

We need to get something straight, Mr. Hara Tiki. Your issue with me is not related to this web site. Your issue with me is not related to anyone online. Your issue with me is due to your behavior and my understanding of said behavior, your refusal to acknowledge it, and your refusal to move on from it, which, out of respect for you (believe it or not I still do), will go unmentioned, no matter what befalls us next time. However, your habitual abuse of your "badge" is about to get you into some seriously embarrassing trouble.

If you continue to wantonly and randomly delete my posts, hara-fuck-ie-poo, your days as a mod will disappear with a finality unrivaled in the history of this domain name. I know you're doing it, you know you're doing it, and we both know that the posts you are deleting are NOT inflammatory, are NOT off topic, and are NOT nonsensical bullshit ala Dann. You are doing it simply to remove me from topics of conversation.

As a mod, you do not have the right, nor the freedom, to randomly delete posts because you can. You are instructed to delete/, modify, and etc, when a post is grossly over the limits of the thread or area, and etc. You know better, and of all people, I think higher of you than you have been acting on here to me.

You may think you are above the rules due to some imagined slight from me, but you are just a cog in a machine that outweighs your own footprint. Your badge is a privilege. It can be taken away, and if you are hell bent on your course, you can never say I did not warn you. 

Apparently you have learned nothing about me, and who you are dealing with. Crow it to the mountain, it will not avail you.

Of course you will flap and flex your e-peen and deny my true station because of my spotty attendance of the past months. My appearances, as you should know by now, are not accidental. I am always here, I simply remain silent for much of the time. This is my decision, for reasons you are party to, but will not admit to yourself.

Nothing I post here is ever an accident, nor is it aloof. When I post, the patterns show themselves for what they are. You know this.

You were my friend once. I still view you asa my friend, despite our previous issue [if you care at all, you will message me about that], but your attitude and your INSISTENCE on making me push back is only going to land you in the madhouse. Please attempt civility and leave my posts alone.

If you delete this, it will reappear. If you delete it repeatedly, it will keep coming back to your plate. Daniel has been notified of this post. He has it in his inbox, as well as other places you do not have access to *grin*.

For those of you on a power trip who seem to think you have the structure of the forums understood, you are in for a nightmare of fail. You do not run the show. You ARE the show. Like elected officials, you bastards are here as a service to Daniel and to the people who loyally remain in the ranks. That's it. It isn't a contest for the biggest dick in the bag. It is a duty, period.

If you ban me, or have your overseer do so, you will be highly frustrated at the outcome. I will not go away because you wish to avoid me for personal reasons. Silencing me is an impossible task. You know this. You know me. We are both adults, and we are capable of dialog, as we used to do on the msn and whatnot. If you want to talk to me, you know how to find me. If you persist in this...game, you will find yourself in an absurd situation that will only make you scream at your monitor. Know when to say when, and let's get past our shit, shall we?

The ball is in your court.  No man the fuck up.

**Moved from Religion and Philosophy**

If you have issues about the forums and want to complain about it, do it here.

We need to get something straight, Mr. Hara Tiki. Your issue with me is not related to this web site. Your issue with me is not related to anyone online. Your issue with me is due to your behavior and my understanding of said behavior, your refusal to acknowledge it, and your refusal to move on from it, which, out of respect for you (believe it or not I still do), will go unmentioned, no matter what befalls us next time. However, your habitual abuse of your "badge" is about to get you into some seriously embarrassing trouble.

If you continue to wantonly and randomly delete my posts, hara-fuck-ie-poo, your days as a mod will disappear with a finality unrivaled in the history of this domain name. I know you're doing it, you know you're doing it, and we both know that the posts you are deleting are NOT inflammatory, are NOT off topic, and are NOT nonsensical bullshit ala Dann. You are doing it simply to remove me from topics of conversation.

As a mod, you do not have the right, nor the freedom, to randomly delete posts because you can. You are instructed to delete/, modify, and etc, when a post is grossly over the limits of the thread or area, and etc. You know better, and of all people, I think higher of you than you have been acting on here to me.

You may think you are above the rules due to some imagined slight from me, but you are just a cog in a machine that outweighs your own footprint. Your badge is a privilege. It can be taken away, and if you are hell bent on your course, you can never say I did not warn you. 

Apparently you have learned nothing about me, and who you are dealing with. Crow it to the mountain, it will not avail you.

Of course you will flap and flex your e-peen and deny my true station because of my spotty attendance of the past months. My appearances, as you should know by now, are not accidental. I am always here, I simply remain silent for much of the time. This is my decision, for reasons you are party to, but will not admit to yourself.

Nothing I post here is ever an accident, nor is it aloof. When I post, the patterns show themselves for what they are. You know this.

You were my friend once. I still view you asa my friend, despite our previous issue [if you care at all, you will message me about that], but your attitude and your INSISTENCE on making me push back is only going to land you in the madhouse. Please attempt civility and leave my posts alone.

If you delete this, it will reappear. If you delete it repeatedly, it will keep coming back to your plate. Daniel has been notified of this post. He has it in his inbox, as well as other places you do not have access to *grin*.

For those of you on a power trip who seem to think you have the structure of the forums understood, you are in for a nightmare of fail. You do not run the show. You ARE the show. Like elected officials, you bastards are here as a service to Daniel and to the people who loyally remain in the ranks. That's it. It isn't a contest for the biggest dick in the bag. It is a duty, period.

If you ban me, or have your overseer do so, you will be highly frustrated at the outcome. I will not go away because you wish to avoid me for personal reasons. Silencing me is an impossible task. You know this. You know me. We are both adults, and we are capable of dialog, as we used to do on the msn and whatnot. If you want to talk to me, you know how to find me. If you persist in this...game, you will find yourself in an absurd situation that will only make you scream at your monitor. Know when to say when, and let's get past our shit, shall we?

The ball is in your court.  No man the fuck up.

Mids, do we really need to go through this again?  No one is trying to "silence" you.  The only thing that has changed since your absence are the rules.  We've gotten a lot tougher on spam and general topic derailment.  These rules were implemented on direct  orders from Daniel himself.  Frankly, I don't understand why people keep getting angry at the mods (and Hara, in particular).  All they're doing is following the rules, and Daniel approves of the job they're doing.

Just so you know, Mids, in around late 2008, even with the new mods, this forum was dying.  Dying because it was drowning from the mindless spam, noobs that received nothing in welcome but "tl;dr" and "Fuck off" from proud mod Robosteve, organized troll raids, and worst of all, an endless supply of alts from bored regulars.  There were so many alts that all noobs were scrutinized severely to see if they were legit, and many genuine newbies were no doubt insulted by our skepticism.  Wardogg and Raven, in particular, I remember strongly suspecting were alts.  As it turned out, both were genuine newbies, and they've both become highly productive, contributing, and friendly members of this forum.

It wasn't easy for the mods to crack down on all this garbage clogging our forums, but all things considered, they've done an excellent job.  The alt problem appears to be largely gone, thanks to a community-driven effort to discourage alt production and punish offenders, dubbed "Operation Chemo".  While we still are naturally exasperated by many noobs who don't bother to read the FAQ, I feel that our mods still give most of them a much more professional welcome than mod Robosteve, who is now ex-mod Robosteve.  Our troll problem will probably never go away fully, but our mods are still capably dealing with them.  In fact, Hara registered at a forum discussing us a few months ago and calmly explained what the true purpose of our forum is.  The would-be raiders were mostly very reasonable when spoken to normally, and a potential troll invasion was adverted.

In conclusion, our mods deserve more respect than they've been getting recently.  Their effort in resurrecting the forums has really been helpful, and I for one am grateful to all of them.  Even Robosteve, who at least put in the effort.  Maybe our forums are a little less goofy and silly now, but it was originally made to discuss FET.  If you truly love the FES, then you should respect the new rules personally ordered by our leader.  Vauxhall, Althalus, and Narcberry refused to respect the mods' authority and follow the rules, and they've been banned.  And you know what?  While the website may be a little less entertaining without them, it's far more productive.

So to all our mods, I say: "Thank you."

ontite      15:25:54     Posting a new topic in Flat Earth Debate & Discussion.

This guy has zero posts, and his first action is to make a new thread in the board reserved most strictly for serious debate. This happens all too often, and most of the time it's something like "why can I see curvature on the horizon when I go to the beach?" or "how come I can see satellites in the sky?". I'm not saying we shouldn't let noobs post in the serious boards, and obviously they need to be able to make threads in Questions & Clarification, but I seriously think we need some kind of minimum post count (I think 100 posts would be reasonable) before allowing new members to create threads in Debate & Discussion.

He just posted his thread. What a surprise.