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Sun Fuel

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DrQuak

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Sun Fuel
« on: June 10, 2006, 04:18:31 AM »
What fuels your spotlight Moon and Sun by the way?


you have stated that it is a lot closer to earth than it is the the RE scenario, however you haven't stated how it supplies us with all this lovely sun shine.
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TheEngineer

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Sun Fuel
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 07:37:54 AM »
I assume the sun uses hydrogen and a bit of helium.
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Erasmus

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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 11:42:54 AM »
Plus maybe some contraction.
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 02:06:11 PM »
and the size?
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Erasmus

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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 02:52:13 PM »
Quote from: "Luke_smith64"
and the size?


Could you maybe use full sentences please?
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Welbourne

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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 02:55:26 PM »
Is "spotlight" just a metaphorical label put on the Sun, and you acknowledge that the Sun is actually a star?
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Erasmus

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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2006, 03:07:10 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
Is "spotlight" just a metaphorical label put on the Sun, and you acknowledge that the Sun is actually a star?


"Spotlight" is a metaphorical label intended to convey an intuition for the notion that the sun does not necessarily emit light in all directions.

As to whether the sun is a star, it's a strange question.  Probably the best answer is, "Yes, but the exact nature of stars is not what astrophysicists would have you believe."
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2006, 03:11:26 PM »
were tlaking about the sun

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Luke_smith64 wrote:
and the size?


Could you maybe use full sentences please?



i dont need a full sentence, you just dont want to answer me
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Welbourne

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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2006, 03:15:47 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"


"Spotlight" is a metaphorical label intended to convey an intuition for the notion that the sun does not necessarily emit light in all directions.



If the Sun's light isn't emissive in all directions, then does this mean the Sun is flat? Or does this mean that the side of the Sun which faces us is the only side that is powered?

If the Sun is flat, do we orbit it? When we orbit the Sun, does it turn so that the luminating side is always facing us, that way we always have a light source?
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Erasmus

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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2006, 03:28:46 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
If the Sun's light isn't emissive in all directions, then does this mean the Sun is flat?


No.

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Or does this mean that the side of the Sun which faces us is the only side that is powered?


Yes, or some portion of it.

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If the Sun is flat, do we orbit it? When we orbit the Sun, does it turn so that the luminating side is always facing us, that way we always have a light source?


In the FE model, the sun orbits the Earth's central axis in a plane parallel to the Earth's plane.  The FAQ has more details, as well as a link to a document with even more details.
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Welbourne

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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2006, 03:41:53 PM »
Do other planets have "spotlights" that orbit them as well? If the Sun only ever directly faces flat Earth, how are any other planets visible? Even through high-powered telescopes, if you're looking into complete darkness, you will only see complete darkness.

How does only one portion of the Sun stay powered? If the Sun is powered by hydrogen and helium, what's the boundary in it's mass that blocks the other portions from being powered?

Let me edit this one in - A planet's axis is the line for which it rotates. If there is no gravity on Earth, it seems impossible for Earth to rotate at all, unless it's axis is on the thin "sides," outside the "ice wall." This obviously wouldn't be possible, otherwise light form the Sun would come into direct contact with the "ice walls."
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EnragedPenguin

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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2006, 03:56:32 PM »
Quote from: "Luke_smith64"
and the size?


From the FAQ
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The sun and moon, each 32 miles in diameter...


Although I think the number should actually be closer to 27 miles.
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Erasmus

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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2006, 04:04:52 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
Do other planets have "spotlights" that orbit them as well?


Probably not.  The earth is special.  The other planets are not the same sort of things as the Earth.  Probably they are more similar to the moon.

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How does only one portion of the Sun stay powered? If the Sun is powered by hydrogen and helium, what's the boundary in it's mass that blocks the other portions from being powered?


The exact mechanism that allows the sun to operate as a spotlight is currently unknown.

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Let me edit this one in - A planet's axis is the line for which it rotates. If there is no gravity on Earth, it seems impossible for Earth to rotate at all,


I was referring to the axis of the Earth's cylindrical symmetry, not of its rotation.

However, why is it impossible for the Earth to rotate if it has no gravity?  Small objects (golf balls, gyroscopes, Whirling Dervishes, et al.) can rotate on their own, despite having very weak gravitational field... why not the Earth?
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Welbourne

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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2006, 04:13:03 PM »
From what I've gathered on this forum, the "ice walls" keep everything on Earth. Having no gravity, the only thing that keeps us grounded is the Earth's propulsion upwards. Rotating the Earth on any axis other than it being outside of the "ice walls" would mean that the ground would, at some point, be angled to a point where we'd fall. Then maybe we'd roll continuously until we hit the "walls." Rotating more, at some point, the Earth will be upside down. I can use upside down correctly as a term here, because if the Earth is flat, we're obviously on the upper side. If not, we'd fall off. How does one stay on an Earth with no gravity if it's rotation turns it over? The Earth's upward movement doesn't keep us grounded if the flat ground we stand on is upside down. If anything, it would pull the Earth from us. Tell me if I didn't make this clear enough.
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Erasmus

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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2006, 04:33:35 PM »
Ah yes... its perfectly clear.  I agree that the Earth cannot be rotating on any axis that is not parallel to its direction of acceleration, for the FE gravity model to work.
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Welbourne

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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2006, 04:37:47 PM »
For the flat Earth model to work properly, the axis for which it rotates would have to be outside of the "ice walls." That's the only way the planet would never be turned to an angle that would allow us to fall until we're forcibly stopped, or from falling off. Now, in order for the Sun to illuminate the planet, then it must be above us at all times, and not orbit us at all. Maybe a back-and-forth, side-to-side motion, but never anything more. If it did, light would come into direct contact with the "ice walls."
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Erasmus

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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2006, 04:42:56 PM »
Quote from: "Welbourne"
For the flat Earth model to work properly, the axis for which it rotates would have to be outside of the "ice walls." That's the only way the planet would never be turned to an angle that would allow us to fall until we're forcibly stopped, or from falling off.


Definitely not.  Clearly the Earth could rotate around an axis perpendicular to the plane in which it lies; in that case, the apparent effect of gravity would not change.

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Now, in order for the Sun to illuminate the planet, then it must be above us at all times, and not orbit us at all. Maybe a back-and-forth, side-to-side motion, but never anything more. If it did, light would come into direct contact with the "ice walls."


I think FEers assume that the ice wall is illuminated by the sun.
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Welbourne

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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2006, 04:46:12 PM »
I was also under the assumption that the "ice wall" exists because no sunlight ever touches that point, which is the only reason it can stay frozen.

If there is no gravity on a flat Earth, then what effect of gravity are you mentioning?
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TheEngineer

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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2006, 04:49:44 PM »
Sun shines on the top of Mt. Everest, but the snow is always there.
Gravity = acceleration
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Erasmus

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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2006, 04:55:06 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Sun shines on the top of Mt. Everest


and on "Antarctica".
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Welbourne

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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2006, 05:01:54 PM »
Snow atop Everest has to do with the change in temperature brought on by the change in altitude. Due to the Earth's tilt, Antartica receives the least amount of energy from the Sun. It's not enough heat to melt the ice off of the continent.

Corresponding with what I just said, it would make sense to say that the "ice wall" is there due to the Earth's tilt. But if the tilt protects one side of the "wall," then certainly the "wall" on the other side of the planet would take a hazardous amount of direct heat from the Sun.

If this isn't why, then why is there a "ice wall" that encompasses the planet? If heat and light from the Sun make contact with the wall just as much as it makes contact with any other part of the Earth, how does it stand?
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Erasmus

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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2006, 05:56:38 PM »
It's cold at the ice wall for the same reason Antarctica is cold.  The light from the sun hits the ice wall at a much lower angle and has to pass through more of the Earth's atmosphere.
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2006, 06:02:32 PM »
then hocome the ice wall near the rquater wouldnt be melted

 if the earth is a dick like you say, the ice wall could only exist near deep in the northern and southern hemispheres, like the north pole/south pole
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6strings

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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2006, 06:22:01 PM »
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then hocome the ice wall near the rquater wouldnt be melted

Assuming you meant to ask "how come the ice wall near the equator wouldn't  have melted?", the answer is that there is no ice wall near the equator...

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if the earth is a dick like you say, the ice wall could only exist near deep in the northern and southern hemispheres, like the north pole/south pole

You seem to have the unique ability to build nearly incoherent strawman arguments.  The "south pole" (there are no hemispheres, btw, as the earth isn't a sphere) is the outer edge of the disk, the north pole, is at the middle.
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2006, 06:28:14 PM »
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then hocome the ice wall near the rquater wouldnt be melted


Assuming you meant to ask "how come the ice wall near the equator wouldn't have melted?", the answer is that there is no ice wall near the equator...


of course i meant howcome, i dont care, why is there no ice wall near the equator


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if the earth is a dick like you say, the ice wall could only exist near deep in the northern and southern hemispheres, like the north pole/south pole


You seem to have the unique ability to build nearly incoherent strawman arguments. The "south pole" (there are no hemispheres, btw, as the earth isn't a sphere) is the outer edge of the disk, the north pole, is at the middle.


i never laughed so hard in my life " if the earth is a dick like you say" that was a good one, better the the uncle jim bob posts

carrying on... you are using your fe logic against an re, so it doesnt work that way, i know its hard nto to use your fe logic, as it is hard for me not to use my re logic, but we must try to not disprove others with our own logic. but what you were trying to say is that the ice wall, is actually the south pole of the re, it makes sense in theory, so much so it would cause me to believe your fe, if there werent alread so many flaws in it.
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6strings

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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2006, 06:33:21 PM »
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of course i meant howcome, i dont care, why is there no ice wall near the equator

...Because it's too warm, I thought that was evident.

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i never laughed so hard in my life " if the earth is a dick like you say" that was a good one, better the the uncle jim bob posts

No, that's actually what you wrote, go check for yourself.

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carrying on... you are using your fe logic against an re, so it doesnt work that way, i know its hard nto to use your fe logic, as it is hard for me not to use my re logic, but we must try to not disprove others with our own logic. but what you were trying to say is that the ice wall, is actually the south pole of the re, it makes sense in theory, so much so it would cause me to believe your fe, if there werent alread so many flaws in it.

No, there is no "RE logic" and "FE logic", they are simply theories as to the shape of the earth; they don't have seperate forms of logic.  You have to realize that you can't debunk FE using premises grounded in RE, unless you can show why these premises must be true.
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2006, 07:10:20 PM »
Quote from: "6strings"
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of course i meant howcome, i dont care, why is there no ice wall near the equator

...Because it's too warm, I thought that was evident.

so then there can be no ice wall in the FE model where the earth is layed out from east to west

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i never laughed so hard in my life " if the earth is a dick like you say" that was a good one, better the the uncle jim bob posts

No, that's actually what you wrote, go check for yourself.

I know that's what i wrote, and it was funny so i laughed, as the UJB posts i wrote aswell, havent you ever laughed at yourself?

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carrying on... you are using your fe logic against an re, so it doesnt work that way, i know its hard nto to use your fe logic, as it is hard for me not to use my re logic, but we must try to not disprove others with our own logic. but what you were trying to say is that the ice wall, is actually the south pole of the re, it makes sense in theory, so much so it would cause me to believe your fe, if there werent alread so many flaws in it.

No, there is no "RE logic" and "FE logic", they are simply theories as to the shape of the earth; they don't have seperate forms of logic.  You have to realize that you can't debunk FE using premises grounded in RE, unless you can show why these premises must be true.

RE logic enforces gravity, FE doesn't

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6strings

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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2006, 07:12:20 PM »
No, RE premises support gravity, and arguing from RE premises is worthless in trying to debunk FE, by the nature of logic itself.
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Luke_smith64

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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2006, 07:13:10 PM »
thats why RE cant use RE logic, because its either part of a conspiracy or not real...
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TheEngineer

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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2006, 07:14:13 PM »
Actually, in our frame of reference, gravity is the same as acceleration.  Here on earth, for each one of us, we can't tell the difference.
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