Atheists! Are They Brave!

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AbdulAziz

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Atheists! Are They Brave!
« on: December 03, 2008, 06:07:55 PM »
Really I always kept wondering, I always thought that the Jews are something I cannot understand easily but I realized Atheist are even more surprising.

How can they be so brave to Challenge the existence of God when the threat or promise is so important! Hell or Heaven?

I mean if I am playing a game and I know that I am 99.9% correct and the other side said if you lost the game, you would go to jail for 5 years, but if you won you would get 10 Million$ still I would not be ready to take the risk that even though I am to this extent believing that I would win.

Then how could Atheists have the guts to deny the existence of God and they don't approve his existence when the reward is punishment and HELL for eternity, I am not talking about 5 years in jail and not a year getting boiled and burned by hell fire like a fish. I am not talking about 100 year 1000000 centuries but I am talking about ETERNITY! How could they take such a risk when they don't have the evidence that back up their claims!

What your doing that's making you dare to this challenge? and ready to get punished if you were wrong? I admit I cannot be like you guys, and I believe countless number of humans can't be like Atheists? what's the secret behind that guts?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:12:24 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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T.T. Monsieur

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 06:24:05 PM »
The same can be asked of you. How do you know which religion is the correct one? Are you prepared to face the consequences of your decision? You have just as much chance of being wrong as the rest of us.

The atheist's gamble is no where near as involved as the theist's. The theist chooses from a myriad of possible deities before which to prostrate themselves and find salvation, whereas the atheist chooses to abstain from such a contemptible process.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 06:33:12 PM »
The same can be asked of you. How do you know which religion is the correct one? Are you prepared to face the consequences of your decision? You have just as much chance of being wrong as the rest of us.

C'mon  :o and I thought you could understand my words before saying it  ;D

I am too different, simply because of using common sense :)

Suppose now you have the Bible in Front of you and Christians believers themselves says there are contradictions in that Bible, then they say that Almighty God is a Human and a God at the same time saying the impossible thing. Now if the Judgment day came and Almighty God asked me: "AbdulAziz" why you didn't believe that Bible is my words, why you didn't believe I became a human and got slapped!" I would innocently answer, Oh dear god, because I really thought your far above this, I thought you could never contradict yourself, oh dear god I never thought that your majesty because a low creature like a human. You know if god kicked me to Hell I would never ever till the end would feel that I was treated with justice :)

However if a christian stood in front of god and Almighty God asked them: "How you dare to say a book full of contradiction is my words!?" or "How you dare to say that I became a human who was created because of sperm" how dare you to say this? if God throw the christian in Hell I swear that Christian would realize that he deserved that punishment. Simply because that's common sense.

My believe by no means is going against common sense, reasons, logic....etc that's why Hitt (A non-Muslim) said: "Islam does not set impossible goals. There are no mythological intricacies in this message. No hidden meanings or secrets and absolutely no priesthood.?

 :)

Same goes for Jews, they believe Almighty God does exists, they say wrong things about him but they never deny his existence, they know he exists, he created everything...etc but Atheists they deny his existence to extent they are ready to say we don't know who created the universe but it's not God :) and most of them make fun of Almighty God like many posts we saw here in other topics, so how can they have this guts?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:37:01 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Sean

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 06:34:56 PM »
ABDUL IS IT TRUE PEOPLE WITH SILLY HATS KILL AMERICANS IN RETURN FOR VIRGINS?
Quote from: sokarul
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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 06:37:14 PM »
ABDUL IS IT TRUE PEOPLE WITH SILLY HATS KILL AMERICANS IN RETURN FOR VIRGINS?

Read the FAQS.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 06:38:39 PM »
ABDUL IS IT TRUE PEOPLE WITH SILLY HATS KILL AMERICANS IN RETURN FOR VIRGINS?

If you mean Muslim then no that's rumors, fake and falsehoods because Islam never promised them that if they killed Americans :P lol in fact Americans were not known at that time. However if you mean people in general, yeah among them they worship dogs and his dirt  ;D or blindly worship someone who dig a whole on the ground to release what he ate.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:40:22 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Sean

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 06:40:43 PM »
SILLYHATS DID 9/11.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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The One True Rat

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 06:41:45 PM »
1) You use way too many smileys. nobody smiles that much.
2) T.T. was right, you could get to the gates of heaven and be cast down to hades by Zeus himself for blasphemy.
3) you do not understand jews???

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T.T. Monsieur

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 06:45:54 PM »
Suppose now you have the Bible in Front of you and Christians believers themselves says there are contradictions in that Bible, then they say that Almighty God is a Human and a God at the same time saying the impossible thing. Now if the Judgment day came and Almighty God asked me: "AbdulAziz" why you didn't believe that Bible is my words, why you didn't believe I became a human and got slapped!" I would innocently answer, Oh dear god, because I really thought your far above this, I thought you could never contradict yourself, oh dear god I never thought that your majesty because a low creature like a human. You know if god kicked me to Hell I would never ever till the end would feel that I was treated with justice :)
And if I were to say to Allah, "Oh, Lord, I apologize, but you simply did not give us enough evidence" and was subsequently banished to Hell just for being honest, I would also consider Him unjust.

However if a christian stood in front of god and Almighty God asked them: "How you dare to say a book full of contradiction is my words!?" or "How you dare to say that I became a human who was created because of sperm" how dare you to say this? if God throw the christian in Hell I swear that Christian would realize that he deserved that punishment. Simply because that's common sense.
My family is Christian and none of them admit the Bible to be full of contradictions or that God became a human via sperm.

My believe by no means is going against common sense, reasons, logic....etc that's why Hitt (A non-Muslim) said: "Islam does not set impossible goals. There are no mythological intricacies in this message. No hidden meanings or secrets and absolutely no priesthood.?
There is no reason to believe Islam is true.

Same goes for Jews, they believe Almighty God does exists, they say wrong things about him but they never deny his existence, they know he exists, he created everything...etc but Atheists they deny his existence to extent they are ready to say we don't know who created the universe but it's not God :) and most of them make fun of Almighty God like many posts we saw here in other topics, so how can they have this guts?
Atheists do not know what created the universe and so they do not claim to know. Allah is merely a possibility among many possibilities.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 06:55:08 PM »
Quote
SILLYHATS DID 9/11.

Sillyhats but not true Muslims :)

Quote
And if I were to say to Allah, "Oh, Lord, I apologize, but you simply did not give us enough evidence" and was subsequently banished to Hell just for being honest, I would also consider Him unjust.

Dear friend, when we want to examine something to be true what criteria we should use so it can be true and accepted to be true universally? ask yourself this question! I can say hey My life became far better when I accepted Jesus and believed in him then I would say that's why Christianity is true but that doesn't mean anything because it only true to me, tomorrow you might say hey I accepted Allah as the only Only mighty god and am feeling better, that wouldn't mean a thing. To accept something to be true there are site of principles, criteria, evidance, reasoning, common sense. Now ask any wise man, ask anyone one with sane mine and I challenge him what makes since more, God being Always God or God becoming a human and still be considered a God! you see.

Dear, your ignorance is not a fact when you say you think no one can know the truth you are just trying to justify your doubts and fears and if the truth is not clear for you it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Everything is a choice and when you say there is no truth you are claiming that it's the truth and what you have reached as a conclusion but things are very simple.

Even at the time of Mohammed Allah didn't have to prove much about his existence because the signs...etc it was so clear thats why he said in the Quran is there any doubt! no chrisitan, muslim, jew, hindu...etc would deny his existence because his existence is the common sense, his existence is the reasoning, his existence is the possible but denying his existence is the impossible using common sense and reasoning :)

We can create another topic and I would teach how you can examine something to be true and the criteria!

Now back to topic

From where does the Atheists get their guts!?
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

?

Sean

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 06:56:56 PM »
Quote
SILLYHATS DID 9/11.

Sillyhats but not true Muslims :)

It would be funny if you from now on referred to Muslims as Sillyhats
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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T.T. Monsieur

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 07:03:34 PM »
Dear friend, when we want to examine something to be true what criteria we should use so it can be true and accepted to be true universally? ask yourself this question! I can say hey My life became far better when I accepted Jesus and believed in him then I would say that's why Christianity is true but that doesn't mean anything because it only true to me, tomorrow you might say hey I accepted Allah as the only Only mighty god and am feeling better, that wouldn't mean a thing. To accept something to be true there are site of principles, criteria, evidance, reasoning, common sense. Now ask any wise man, ask anyone one with sane mine and I challenge him what makes since more, God being Always God or God becoming a human and still be considered a God! you see.

Dear, your ignorance is not a fact when you say you think no one can know the truth you are just trying to justify your doubts and fears and if the truth is not clear for you it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Everything is a choice and when you say there is no truth you are claiming that it's the truth and what you have reached as a conclusion but things are very simple.

Even at the time of Mohammed Allah didn't have to prove much about his existence because the signs...etc it was so clear thats why he said in the Quran is there any doubt! no chrisitan, muslim, jew, hindu...etc would deny his existence because his existence is the common sense, his existence is the reasoning, his existence is the possible but denying his existence is the impossible using common sense and reasoning :)

We can create another topic and I would teach how you can examine something to be true and the criteria!
Unnecessary. I do not consider Christianity or Judaism to be any more viable than Islam.

Now back to topic

From where does the Atheists get their guts!?
If God exists, then I suppose they derive their so-called "guts" from their ignorance of Him.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 07:09:00 PM »
Quote
If God exists, then I suppose they derive their so-called "guts" from their ignorance of Him.

Wallah your something  :)

I always kept saying this to myself, but I would like to hear from Atheists themselves
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

?

T.T. Monsieur

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 07:18:24 PM »
Quote
If God exists, then I suppose they derive their so-called "guts" from their ignorance of Him.

Wallah your something  :)

I always kept saying this to myself, but I would like to hear from Atheists themselves
As a corollary, your own unwavering belief in Allah would also be derived from ignorance should he prove to not exist. ;)

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 08:04:06 PM »
Really I always kept wondering, I always thought that the Jews are something I cannot understand easily but I realized Atheist are even more surprising.

How can they be so brave to Challenge the existence of God when the threat or promise is so important! Hell or Heaven?

I mean if I am playing a game and I know that I am 99.9% correct and the other side said if you lost the game, you would go to jail for 5 years, but if you won you would get 10 Million$ still I would not be ready to take the risk that even though I am to this extent believing that I would win.

Then how could Atheists have the guts to deny the existence of God and they don't approve his existence when the reward is punishment and HELL for eternity, I am not talking about 5 years in jail and not a year getting boiled and burned by hell fire like a fish. I am not talking about 100 year 1000000 centuries but I am talking about ETERNITY! How could they take such a risk when they don't have the evidence that back up their claims!

What your doing that's making you dare to this challenge? and ready to get punished if you were wrong? I admit I cannot be like you guys, and I believe countless number of humans can't be like Atheists? what's the secret behind that guts?

I was comforted by religion for my entire childhood, but I ripped myself from it because I also believed that it is better to see the universe for what it really is than to enjoy a delusional perspective of it.   :)

You keep returning to the concept of common sense to support your claims. This fails to ..uh support your claims, and also is not common sense because it is not shared. It is a proven psychological defense mechanism to believe in a deity without evidence for one, aside from whether or not there actually is one. Your common sense is based on a train of thought that is hard to abandon for many reasons.

Neuroplasticity is important in all permanently fixed beliefs, religion, brainwashing, or otherwise. When you see the world from the same perspective for very long periods of time you become convinced it is correct because you have adjusted to agreeing with the concepts. My uncle washes his hands with gasoline to get oil off. He may have questioned the impact on his health when he was younger if he didn't put his faith in what his parents told him. His parents didn't know that gasoline soaks into the skin and they raised him to believe it was safe. No that he has been doing it all his life, he denies that it can be harmful in anyway. He is very intelligent, but the concept has been incorporated into his mind as sheer fact. Back to neuroplasticity: the mind is an organic system much like a computer but is actually able to reorganize itself. Certain thought patterns can physically change ones brain chemistry, especially with time. Undoing a thought system with concepts such tightly integrated can be nearly impossible, depending on how incorporated and brainwashed the person is. I say brainwashed because of the staggering numbers of people who accept whatever religion they are born into. I dare say you were born into yours Abdul, but I have no doubt you would think differently if you were born elsewhere to different parents.

Evidence is a necessary part of rational understanding and scientific investigation. Religions have no evidence at all so I hardly see how it can be so favored. That was until I understood why people subscribe to religion. My aunt changed before my eyes in a period over 12-14 years, and now is a religious drone. I see it firsthand, and took note of the underlying principles driving it. The problem is emotion almost always overwhelms logic. Religions may claim to use logic but they are rationalizing their beliefs whether they know it or not.  :)
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 08:10:48 PM »

Pascal's Wager

I heard or read somewhere that with the number of exclusive religions that damn all the others for not believing theirs, you have a .002 percent chance of being within the 'right' one. That is one place where Pascal's Wager breaks down.

It is an appeal to power, as potential punishment doesn't determine reality. I could never convince myself to belief in something without evidence, and lying to myself and possibly lying to god to try to trick my way into heaven is the worst kind of deceit. It can even be seen as unethical.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 04:51:55 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 04:53:38 AM »
Also, if god is fair, hell would not be eternal.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Herzl

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 05:21:49 AM »
It is the fool who says in his heart "there is no god". Atheists ignore the larger picture in favor of nihilism.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 07:43:22 AM »
It is the fool who says in his heart "there is no god". Atheists ignore the larger picture in favor of nihilism.
We already have enough crappy alts on this site.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Wendy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 10:42:46 AM »
I'm an atheist(But not really atheist per se). I stare God and eternal punishment in the face, and I spit. Not really, though. I just think of it as a slightly less complicated version of Pascal's wager. If I'm wrong, I burn in hell for all eternity, but maybe not, because God is mercyful. If I'm right, I'll never find out, because I'll be dead.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2008, 10:46:40 AM »
I don' fear hell in the same way I don't fear being run over by a 40ft elephant when I step out of my door in the morning.

There's no way to be sure there isn't an elephant but to go around the house each morning checking out of windows, loading and checking an elephant gun and sprinting from the front door of my house to the car because there is a very very slight chance of elephant attack is nonsensical.

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2008, 03:25:09 PM »
Also, if god is fair, hell would not be eternal.
Why?

I'm an atheist(But not really atheist per se). I stare God and eternal punishment in the face, and I spit. Not really, though. I just think of it as a slightly less complicated version of Pascal's wager. If I'm wrong, I burn in hell for all eternity, but maybe not, because God is mercyful. If I'm right, I'll never find out, because I'll be dead.
So (death) or [(eternal punishment) or (not)], not a great decision.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 03:36:46 PM »
Also, if god is fair, hell would not be eternal.
Why?

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Read the FAQS.

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2008, 03:39:17 PM »
What would an appropriate punishment be?

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2008, 03:41:02 PM »
What would an appropriate punishment be?

The most extreme case would be: for every second spent sinning on Earth, you burn in hell for that amount of time.
Read the FAQS.

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2008, 03:44:12 PM »
And what is the basis for this form of punishment?

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2008, 03:49:47 PM »
And what is the basis for this form of punishment?

Also, isn't it just a tad bit odd that a benevolent God would send someone to Hell for eternity just because they didn't believe in Him? I guess God wasn't given much attention as a child... poor thing.  :'(
Read the FAQS.

Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2008, 03:51:52 PM »
So your own ideas of reasonable punishment are completely unfounded? Maybe we should test them out in your country. If some sicko rapes a kid for five minutes, he gets five minutes in prison, seems perfectly fair.

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Vauxhall

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2008, 03:59:10 PM »
So your own ideas of reasonable punishment are completely unfounded? Maybe we should test them out in your country. If some sicko rapes a kid for five minutes, he gets five minutes in prison, seems perfectly fair.

I see what you did there...  ::)

Not believing in God is not equal to rape, not by a long shot. I find it interesting that an atheistic rapist will spend just as much time in Hell as I would, when all I did was not believe in God.

Don't even think about bringing Dante into this.
Read the FAQS.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Atheists! Are They Brave!
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2008, 04:01:11 PM »
And what is the basis for this form of punishment?
Non-absolutism. Whatever the cut off point determining a destination of heaven or hell, someone could have sinned twenty times as much and still have gotten the same eternal damnation. There shouldn't be a binary switch for good and bad, punishment should be on a continuum of responses.

Also when I die, if there was a god and I meet him I'll know I was wrong, but I took the tools I had and believed what came naturally. Morals and ethics wouldn't be a problem for me, but faith might. In every fiber of my body, my personality is based on following logic and not emotion. I would only be guilty of not letting others convince me of their religions, which is true of all faiths.

It is nothing short of unreasonable to expect every person to sort out which God is real out of all the religions that exist. Especially with no evidence for any of them.

I also believe an omniscient being would know if I was faking my religion. It is basically impossible for me to accept things blindly or follow circular logic. To advertise myself as a Christian and pray when I truly feel differently seems nothing more the trying to be deceptive and cheat the system.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 04:07:06 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.