Call me a heretic....

  • 18 Replies
  • 4185 Views
Call me a heretic....
« on: June 07, 2006, 06:20:01 AM »
Enlighten my Roundish naive eyes, for they apparently lack the Flatness of faith....

Q~ How do FErs explain the solar cycle of a single day? ie. Given the assumed truth of a single sun, how does our solar provider rise in the East and set in the West on a 24 hour basis? Does it speed up when it's underneath the elephants and the turtle and we're not looking only to ~BAM~ pop back up again on the other side of this A1 replicant planetoid we call home?

Q~ Airline routes. Why is it faster to travel against the assumed rotation of a supposed round Earth than it is to traverse the apparently spirit-level-friendly third rock from the sun chasing said rotation?

Q~ Toilet bowl flushes swirling in opposite directions?

Q~ Where is the exact center of the circumferentially challenged planet located?

Q~ Difraction of light circa sunsets due to atmospheric conditions otherwise attributed to a roundish Earth?

Dissolve the misconception of circular lies and fill me with the ultimate truth of a linear faith, I beseach you...

Kindest regards,

~Locomus Maximus, Betrayer of All.
o man, my head is BUMPIN'

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2006, 06:25:19 AM »
ur heretic...
he world is round u stupid f*cks...

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2006, 06:27:07 AM »
You missed an 'a', but grammatical grievances aside, I say unto you...

I'm sorry Charlie Murphy - i was having too much fun. It was an accident.
o man, my head is BUMPIN'

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2006, 06:30:37 AM »
ill offer u a truce, the stickiest of ikies.

bitch, come here and have sex with Charlie Murphy!
he world is round u stupid f*cks...

Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 06:44:15 AM »
Quote from: "Loco"
Enlighten my Roundish naive eyes, for they apparently lack the Flatness of faith....

Out of curiosity... did you read the FAQ? I'm referring to the "Flat Earth FAQ *READ BEFORE POSTING*" thread in this forum.
Quote
Q~ Toilet bowl flushes swirling in opposite directions?

This is just one example where millions of people can believe something as "fact", something that is being repeated in books, magazines and even "respectable" science shows on TV - yet it is ultimately just an urban legend.

I'll refer you to the Urban Legends Reference Page on this issue. I'll quote the key sentence: "The configuration of taps and drains is responsible for the direction of spin given to water draining from sinks and bathtubs" and that is true whether or not you believe in a flat Earth.

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 06:47:00 AM »
and the others?
he world is round u stupid f*cks...

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 06:53:30 AM »
I have indeed read said 'FAQs' upon reading the 'Please read these FAQs' thread title (ingeniously titled, mind you).

I understand now - like a reverse HKS conical filter, tap fixtures have been engineered pre-installation to create the desired direction of swirl...
o man, my head is BUMPIN'

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 07:11:23 AM »
Quote from: "Loco"
I have indeed read said 'FAQs' upon reading the 'Please read these FAQs' thread title (ingeniously titled, mind you).

That is strange, because the FAQ answers most of your questions.
Quote
I understand now - like a reverse HKS conical filter, tap fixtures have been engineered pre-installation to create the desired direction of swirl...

Actually, what I tried to explain is that it is a myth that the water swirls in different directions in different parts of the world. For your entertainment, I'll link to another page on this issue. It's someone who has actually tried to test the assertion that water alwas drains in a certain way and found it to be false (try it yourself, it's fun to not just take at face value what people tell you). The Wikipedia page on the Coriolis force is quite interesting as well (though it does contain some round Earth fallacies as well).

I guess I need to emphasize that while these pages were written by round Earthers, the fact remains the same on a flat Earth: Sinks and toilets don't drain differently in different parts of the world.

Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 10:13:56 AM »
Quote from: "Loco"

Q~ Airline routes. Why is it faster to travel against the assumed rotation of a supposed round Earth than it is to traverse the apparently spirit-level-friendly third rock from the sun chasing said rotation?


Are you suggesting that an aircraft travelling east to west travels faster than on travelling west to east becasue the earth is moving underneath it?

I quess then a balloon that goes into the air can travle around the world in 24 hours by staying in place.

In the areas north of the equator the jet stream tends to blow from west to east, it is faster to fly with the stream, west to east, than against it, east to west.

But under both FE and RE, there would not be any differences in the Norther Hemisphere, but in the southern there might be a bit of a stickler involving centripital force, since the radius is double that of the equator, the speed that something travels at the ice wall is considerably faster than at the equator.

hummm...I tried to work out the difference, but instead came up with some interesting questions for a FE'er.

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2006, 10:33:45 AM »
I don't think the FE "spins", and so no centripetal is involved.

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2006, 12:13:27 PM »
Quote from: "Loco"


Q~ Airline routes. Why is it faster to travel against the assumed rotation of a supposed round Earth than it is to traverse the apparently spirit-level-friendly third rock from the sun chasing said rotation?

-called the conservation of momentum...when I jump up, the earth doesn't rotate under my feet, I land in the same place!

     And just because something is taught in school or is in science books or is a well known 'fact', doesn't mean it is true.  Water draining differently on different sides of the world and that an airplane flies due to the 'Bernoulli Principal' are both taught in school and are in many science books, yet are both blatenly wrong...


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 12:54:30 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
I don't think the FE "spins", and so no centripetal is involved.


Then what causes the Coriolis affect?

What makes a large pendulum appear to rotate it's swing in precise synchronation with the time?

Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2006, 01:09:33 PM »
Quote from: "Copernicus_was_wrong"

I'll refer you to the Urban Legends Reference Page on this issue. I'll quote the key sentence: "The configuration of taps and drains is responsible for the direction of spin given to water draining from sinks and bathtubs" and that is true whether or not you believe in a flat Earth.


True and not true.  Yes for the toilet and most drains, design is the major factor of the direction of spin, however, you can remove those factors and use careful observation to see the effect.

What Snopes leaves out is the conservation of angular momentum.  Like a Skater pulling in her arms in a spin to speed up, as the water with the very slight effect of spin from the coriolis effect is magnified as the water is drawn from the rim of the tub to the center.

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2006, 09:27:08 PM »
Quote from: "Doubter"
True and not true.  Yes for the toilet and most drains, design is the major factor of the direction of spin, however, you can remove those factors and use careful observation to see the effect.


You could never remove those factors.  Crystalization of the metal as it cools creates grain boundries.  These are random, and could never be removed.  If you are talking about porcelain, ceramics are randomly bonded and this is the nature of the material and can't be removed.  These imperfections in the material would induce a turning of the flow of water, which would influence which way the water drains.  

Quote
What Snopes leaves out is the conservation of angular momentum. Like a Skater pulling in her arms in a spin to speed up, as the water with the very slight effect of spin from the coriolis effect is magnified as the water is drawn from the rim of the tub to the center.


Most sinks and tubs are not circular.  The location of the drain is usually not in the center of the sink or tub.  There is always a slope of the sink or tub towards the drain.  The water would never circulate directly over the drain.  The water in a sink or tub would not circulate by the extremely small coriolis force, but it would be highly influenced by the uneven cooling of the water and by the friction of the water interacting with the sides of the vessel.  These interactions would create eddies in the water that would destoroy   any angular motion the coriolis force may have imparted on the water.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2006, 01:50:50 AM »
Quote from: "Doubter"
True and not true.  Yes for the toilet and most drains, design is the major factor of the direction of spin, however, you can remove those factors and use careful observation to see the effect.

Sure, if you can remove those factors. As TheEngineer pointed out, that is quite hard - potentially impossible - to do.

However, that is a rather academic argument. What I was referring to though is the common belief that normal (i.e. "non-idealized") toilets and sinks drain in different directions in the northern and the southern hemisphere, and that is simply not the case. After posting in this thread yesterday, I was actually quite tempted to try it out myself. I have four sinks at home and the result was beautiful: Two drain clockwise, two drain counter-clockwise. Like I said before, it's one of these many urban legends that people take at face value without ever verifying them, no matter how easy it may be to do so.

?

Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Call me a heretic....
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 08:51:33 AM »
Just to add my data to the general body of knowledge: I too tried the experiment in my:
1) Bathroom sink -- yesterday, clockwise in each of two trials.  Today, counterclockwise in each of two trials.
2) Bathtub -- one trial, counterclockwise.
3) Kitchen sink -- I'll do this one later.

I think it's perfectly plausible that the Coriolis effect would influence the drainage of tubs.  At my latitude, the effect would be an extra 8.7e-6 (counterclockwise) rotations every second, or an extra full rotation in one day, seven hours, 48 minutes.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Re: Call me a heretic....
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2006, 10:47:25 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"


You could never remove those factors.... These interactions would create eddies in the water that would destoroy any angular motion the coriolis force may have imparted on the water.


Never said it would be easy, but I'm not theEngineer.

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Call me a heretic....
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2006, 11:39:12 AM »
I never said anything about it being easy, I said not possible.  It is the nature of the material.  Just because the metal feels smooth to your fingers, doesn't mean the actual microscopic surface is smooth.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Call me a heretic....
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2006, 12:13:32 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
I never said anything about it being easy, I said not possible.  It is the nature of the material.  Just because the metal feels smooth to your fingers, doesn't mean the actual microscopic surface is smooth.


Does not need to be, you just need a large sample of very large "Tubs" made as well as possible, and to repeat the experiment many times.  Not all will have the same result, but there should be a net trend.

The larger the surface of the tub, and the higher the ratio between the circumferance of the tub and the diameter of the drain, the greater influence the corialis effect will have.