Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 11:42:30 AM »
Also, for the simplicity of this thread, I will post a list of proposed conspirators.

To flat-earthers: This list is practical if someone shows up with evidence quoted from or based on a certain source, if someone shows pictures from a certain source and if somone refers to a certain source.

To round-earthers: This list is practical in case you would not want to bother bringing up material that would automatically be considered as part of the conspiracy. Also, it could be a good thing to analyze the number of major conspirators in case you would like to use that as an argument.

The list:

NASA and all associates

ESA and all associates

Soviet Union space programme and all associates

Russian Federation space programme and all associates

V2-rocket references (NASA was suppose to have invented their rockets from "scratch", thus the V2 rocket can't have existed)

GPS-companies and all associates

Cable-companies and all associates

Chinese space programme and all associates

All the different astronomical societies/surveys related to the government and all associates (or else pictures of a disc-shaped moon and sun would have been released long ago)

Sonar-companies and all associates

Aircraft pilots and all associates

Aircraft companies and all associates

Scientific press/media

Sattelite companies

US Government

Russian Federation Government

Soviet Union Government

CIA

KGB

Chinese Government

European Union

US Military (especially artillery, without accurate GPS these would never be able to hit their targets)

US Air Force (same thing as with the US Military)

US Military Air Force

US Marines

US Navy

US Marine Air Force

All the russian military forces

All other military forces (chinese, european, south-american) using GPS

Companies related to anything that has with space to do

South-Pole expeditions

Scientific programmes close to or at the south pole



In case more needs to be added, please tell me.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2008, 11:52:19 AM »
You can't compare a global conspiracy involving millions of people, from different countries, press, companies and especially something so innocent as the casual astronomer - to a crashed baloon somewhere in Nevada.

You should maybe look a little at "Aurora."  Most certainly not a crashed balloon in Nevada.  I'm hoping you will post your photos here of the shuttle in flight.

This will be my final statement on this matter. Having looked up the "aurora" on Wikipedia (which is an open encyclopedia), I found that there was actually some sort of proof regarding that. Flat-earthers have yet to produce any evidence for something remotedly close to proof of a conspiracy. The Aurora-conspiracy-believers had sonic booms, detected by several sources, as well as an observation. Having compared the Aurora aircraft to the FE theory, I must say that the Aurora-conspiracy is unmeasurably more probable than the FE theory.

Besides, I don't have the camera nor the telescope to do it. I've got a 60 mm telescope without any proper camera - and I'm too far from "neutral" regarding taking pictures. Perhaps a flat-earther should try to take the pictures. Or someone who's considering both alternatives.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2008, 12:00:19 PM »
(Excuse me for posting three times in a row)

Anyone interested in carrying out the experiment? I'm probably too far away from the equator to see the shuttle (I live in Sweden). If you've got the right equipement, it can't take more than an hour.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2008, 01:47:01 PM »
So it somehow dumps its ET in the pacific (which falls from such a height it breaks into little pieces at a certain altitude), taking away its main source of propulsion left (except its OMS/RCS), and glides all the way around the world again and lands somewhere secret without any trace of radiant heat or sonic booms from the shock waves. Avoiding all public and private radars and millions upon millions of people in countries that would love to find anything against the USA to show we are all fake......This is Tom Bioshop Shuttle Theory???
Having a little bit of gravity is like being a little bit pregnant.

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Johannes

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2008, 08:33:33 PM »
Earthquakesdontbend, please don't make stuff up. The V2 rocket was not a conspiracy - it was a weapon. The US stole it because they realized its value in the conspiracy.

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2008, 11:07:19 PM »
Well, then they did not make up rockets from scratch - as stated by Tom Bishop in the "proof of conspiracy" thread.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2008, 11:31:27 PM »
Maybe the shuttle actually is made of balsa wood, and is equipped with gigantic parachutes. It would need an active cloaking device, though.
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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 05:19:29 AM »
I highly doubt that balsa would be able to withstand the strain. stress, and heat absorbed. The glue required would weight more than if they were to just use the aluminum said to be used. Not only that, but can you imagine the size of the parachute that would be needed? The only parachutes on-board a stacked launch are on the SRB's for recovery and re-use.

Also...don't you think they would know how to pack one of these badboys in after all the years of practice if this was how its done.

Having a little bit of gravity is like being a little bit pregnant.

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2008, 07:02:45 AM »
Still, balsa wood would be blown away far too easily. The astronauts would have a really hard time tumbling around in their fake-shuttle.  :'(

I think that there is no way the space shuttle could withstand 3 G in case it was made of balsa wood. Also, it would most probably burn into pieces by the rocket blast temperatures.

Conclusion: The space shuttle is real. There is no way NASA could have made a fake-shuttle, landing on a desolate island somewhere in the pacific without anyone noticing and alerting the press.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2008, 07:15:25 AM »
This actually fits in with a certain post in the "proof of conspiracy" posts.

Tom said that we were the ones suggesting NASA had invented never-before seen technology. Well, if what Goldstein said was true, then NASA has invented away of propelling the space shuttle (and the huge fuel tank as well) up into the highest parts of the atmosphere using draft. Then, they would have invented a fuel that vaporizes when exposed to oxygen in a seemingly rocket-styled way withouth burning the balsa wood! Amazing technology, really.

The theory of a NASA conspiracy grows more unlikely every day.
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2008, 07:32:47 AM »
Maybe Tom is the conspiracy...
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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2008, 10:20:35 AM »
Actually, that is quite an interesting theory. The FE theory is quite similar to the Creationism theory. The FE society could just be a way for creationism-critics to demonstrate how insane such theories are.
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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2008, 11:14:51 AM »
Anyone watching the live video feed?

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2008, 12:19:28 PM »
Amazing, really. Wish I could be an astronaut - I've got an eyesight problem. :'( ... There can't be anything more spectacular than watching the earth from space.

Also, I tried moving the slider forward. I could not, which pretty much proves to us that it is a live feed! In case you do not realize that I am joking, then I suggest you do not quote this comment.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 12:23:46 PM by Earthquakesdontbend »
I was thinking of putting up the "top ten shapes of the earth". I've got Pyramid Earth and Cubic Earth so far...

Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2008, 05:21:31 PM »
Quote
Anyone watching the live video feed?

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

This is quite interesting. Especially the extended time that the camera has been filming the inside of the ISS, suggesting that it isn't due to a vomit comet and isn't done underwater to simulate weightlessness.

It would be nice if FEers were watching this, but somehow I expect they will all miss it.

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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2008, 05:36:27 AM »
Having a little bit of gravity is like being a little bit pregnant.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2008, 07:59:48 PM »
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/19/2424019.htm

Look at that bag just float away...

What does that staged mishap prove about anything?  ???

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2008, 10:40:42 PM »
Tom,

It is a sign to us that either:

A - NASA has invented an anti-gravity device which they use to make objects "float" away, just like they would in RE space.

B - NASA has used advanced computer-machinery to make all the scenes (including that one) so real that it would be impossible to separate them from the real world.

C - NASA has gone to space, and filmed what is happening up there.

Which one seems the best? I've yet to see an anti-gravity device.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2008, 10:42:19 PM »
Plenty of Hollywood sci-fi movies have zero gravity scenes.

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Earthquakesdontbend

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2008, 11:03:14 PM »
True, but,

They did not make two-hour long scenes of zero-gravity that looks realistic outside their space shuttle.

Oh... I forgot... NASA hired a lot of bribed animators to do the job.
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markjo

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2008, 05:35:20 AM »
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/19/2424019.htm

Look at that bag just float away...

What does that staged mishap prove about anything?  ???

Tom, why would NASA stage such a mishap? ??? In RE, losing a tool bag is one of the last things that you want to do.  Now there is just that much more space junk to track and avoid.  Not something that a fake space program wants to do if they can help it.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2008, 05:47:47 AM »
What does that staged mishap prove about anything?  ???

You really think she did that on purpose? Don't you find it odd a bag with heavy tools just floats away. Can you simulate that same scenario? Can you just float around with a 310 [lb] suit and not move around without waving your arms or legs? NASA does not have an inti-gravity chamber...about the closest things they have to one is the NBL and the presence of air bubbles would give that right away...not to mention the walls are all white.
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MadDogX

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2008, 06:00:37 AM »
I believe Tom is implying that all scenes "filmed in space" could just as well be created completely by CGI.
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Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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markjo

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2008, 06:06:22 AM »
I believe Tom is implying that all scenes "filmed in space" could just as well be created completely by CGI.

Except that most CGI space scenes are pretty obvious.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2008, 06:16:29 AM »
I am sure many of you remember the CGI of the old days...I just don't see the processing power back then being able to do that sort of graphics. TRON blew people away back when it came out, what Tom is talking about would have set CGI decades ahead of its time.

I'm not sure if any of you have been to a NASA facility before, but their are still green-screens, 5" floppy's, and reel tapes being used. I would love to see someone make a CGI scene with a greenscreen and floppy drive.
Having a little bit of gravity is like being a little bit pregnant.

Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2008, 10:25:26 AM »
Plenty of Hollywood sci-fi movies have zero gravity scenes.

Speculation without evidence.

We have provided evidence that they are in space.  You can't just say it's all CGI.  You've got to back it up with evidence. 

Can you please point out which part of this video has been faked or created using CGI?
Teach a man to make fire and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2008, 05:09:32 PM »
Plenty of Hollywood sci-fi movies have zero gravity scenes.

Speculation without evidence.

We have provided evidence that they are in space.  You can't just say it's all CGI.  You've got to back it up with evidence. 

Can you please point out which part of this video has been faked or created using CGI?
This is the big problem with most of the FEers arguments again RE. The technique is called: Moving the Goalposts ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalpost ) and is a logical fallacy. This means that their arguments make no logical sense.

Also, according to logic and the rules of evidence, you can never disprove a positive. So this makes it impossible for REers to disprove the FE, simply because the FEers are using illogical arguments to support their positions and can therefore make stuff up as it suits them. We are trying to argue against imagination, not reality.

If the FEers are actually interested in a rational discussion in an attempt to prove which "theory" is correct (RE or FE), then they should stick to the rules of logic and rational debate.

Although disproving a Positive is impossible, disproving a Negative is possible. You can do this by showing the Positive.

So for FEers to disprove the Negative about FE (that the Earth is not flat), then all they need is one piece of reliable data that states that the Earth is indeed Flat. Now, by reliable, it means that the evidence is repeatable (that is it not a one off event) and demonstrates something that RE can not also explain.

RE proponents have already given this (many times) on this forum and if you look at sources outside this forum then there are literally millions of pieces of evidence that support a RE that can not be replicated on a FE. And, much of this evidence is easy to come by and can not be tampered with by conspirators.

For one: On a FE there should be a difference between the Speed of the Sun (and hence time of day light) between Summer and Winter in such a way that Summer days in the Southern hemiplane is shorter than its winter, because the Sun has to orbit once every 24 hours, and on a FE, when the Sun is in the South Hemiplane it has a greater distance it has to travel (the circumference of a circle with a larger radius is larger than a circle with a smaller radius).

A RE explains this by the sun being a long way away and the Earth being Round and so does not create a shorter Summer day in the Southern Summer. So here is an observation that RE explains but FE can't. "Spot Light Suns", "Bendy Light" or even "Tiled Earth" can't explain it (neither can fish boosts  ;) ).

If the FEers can explain this somehow, then we will have to examine other evidence (which there is a lot of) that supports RE and can not be currently explained by FE.
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its_amazing

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2008, 11:16:07 AM »
Going back to the original topic...

Now the the shuttle has un-docked from the ISS, are any FE'rs going to tracking the shuttle as it returns to KSC on Sunday?
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PeopleOnBehalfOfLogic

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2008, 12:24:43 PM »
Doubt it, since they belive the tracking data is false.

Oh well. Maybe they should try looking up when the shuttle is calculated to be overhead.
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Perfect Circle

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch 11/14/08
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2008, 04:10:58 PM »
I guess the whole sky is just a projection. We are really in a large projection dome in Area 51. Anything we see is CG.
Like the sun, the stars are also expanding and contracting their diameter as they spin around the hub every six months.