the cat bites her tail...

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the cat bites her tail...
« on: June 06, 2006, 11:18:02 PM »
the fe argument about gravity is: the disc is accelerating and though having the same effect as gravity. just to prevent some flames, the same in your own words:

"The Earth is accelerating upwards at 1g (9.8m/s-2) along with every star, sun and moon in the universe. This produces the same effect as gravity."

you also state:

"FE assumes that the Earth does not generate a gravitational field."

the problem of accelerating past the speed of light is answered by this:

"The theory of relativitity[sic] states that no observer in an inertial reference frame will ever measure the speed of a massive body to be greater than or equal to that of light."

that's what you say in your faq.

to me it seems you have accepted the special and the general theory of relativity, because you use them to prove your claims. to be sure, when you say

[...]This produces the same effect as gravity.

you use the general theory of relativity to prove your claims, because this is the theory that claims:

accelerating produces the same effect as gravity.

went this far? the same theory also claims that

you can not accelerate at a constant acceleration rate forever.

why? a massive body would need an infinite amount of energy to gain the same speed as waves or particles (you name it) without a mass. this is the meaning of the "nothing can be faster than light" claim in physical terms.

in other words: would the theory of relativity be true, the disc (and the universe) would have stopped by now.

my point? you take a theory to prove your claims that also disprove your claims.

oh, btw, your workaround for this problem is not very smart: you deface the speedlimit as a simple measurement problem.

as i said, if you use a theory to prove your claims, you shouldn't be beaten by the same theory and you also shouldn't deface that theory.

but i think that einstein (and with him riemann, goedel, minkowsky and bor) are part of the conspiracy.

lg,
wzzzzrd

ps: what i find most disgusting: people like einstein took a whole life to think and work on the mathematics and explanations of their theory, and you so often just say: "pah, sience. i only believe what i see." do you think the world is that simple? if you do so, please explain to me why the apple always falls down, but without lifting yourself on the shoulders of giants, eg explain it by your self, from bottom to top.

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2006, 12:10:06 AM »
Quote from: "Yardstick2006"
No replies eh? :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Wow.
You waited 12 minutes. I'm usually not this direct, but you are just dumb.

As for the speed of light thing, mass is relative. We can accelerate at 1g forever because, within our reference frame, the earth is always at rest mass, and so requires a finite amount of force to accelerate 9.81 m/s^2. From an external point of reference our speed would increase, and so eventually our mass would increase, and so eventually we would cease to accelerate.

Luckily, we're not external, so we never experience that decrease in acceleration.

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2006, 12:30:54 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
you are just dumb.

i think insulting people is against the forum rules.

Quote from: "Unimportant"

As for the speed of light thing, mass is relative. We can accelerate at 1g forever because, within our reference frame, the earth is always at rest mass, and so requires a finite amount of force to accelerate 9.81 m/s^2. From an external point of reference our speed would increase, and so eventually our mass would increase, and so eventually we would cease to accelerate.

Luckily, we're not external, so we never experience that decrease in acceleration.

mass is relative you say. it is NOT. while wheight indeed IS relative (wheight is the effect between two ore more massive bodies), mass IS NOT. ever stumbled upon E=m*c^2?

mass is absolute. no matter what the speed of the observer might be, or it's own mass, the mass of the observed object is absolute. mass (or energy, they are equivalent) bend space, this is what gravity is about. so does the theory of relativity say, which fes uses to prove their beliefs.

SPEED is relative. and SPEED is very different from ACCELERATION.

to maintain a constant SPEED (in a vacuum) you do not need energy. to CHANGE SPEED (this is meant by ACCELERATION) you need energy. so no, you can NOT accelerate for ever, not even for a long (from a cosmological point of view) time.

and the trick: "yeah, but everything else also accelerates" does not work. why? acceleration can only take place in a space, against which an object accelerates. if the space also accelerates, there is no detectable acceleration, thus no effect similar to gravity, thus no reason for the apple to fall down. this is not my belief, this is a theory fes uses to prove their beliefs.

again: speed != acceleration. acceleration = change of speed (that's why the unit for acceleration is m/s^2, indicating that fact).

lg,
wzzzrd

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2006, 12:49:56 AM »
And where exactly do you think I mistook speed for acceleration, or vice versa? I assure I did no such thing; I am more than sufficiently aware of the difference between acceleration and velocity. Similarly, I did not mistake weight for mass; I am more than sufficiently aware of the differences between the two.

As for your claim that mass is absolute, well, that's just wrong. In fact the[/u] reason why it is impossible to observe an object travelling the speed of light is because the objects mass will increase as it approaches C, such that it will eventually require inifinite force to maintain the acceleration required to achieve C. Thus, mass can be interpreted as a function of velocity, which we all know as relative.

Re: the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 12:57:08 AM »
Quote from: "wzzzrd"

ps: what i find most disgusting: people like einstein took a whole life to think and work on the mathematics and explanations of their theory, and you so often just say: "pah, sience. i only believe what i see." do you think the world is that simple? if you do so, please explain to me why the apple always falls down, but without lifting yourself on the shoulders of giants, eg explain it by your self, from bottom to top.

The apple always falls down because of what we call "Intelligent Falling", whereby god ensures that the apples falls down. This is very understable, so I doubt you will have any questions.
P.S dont play the 'whole life' card, it works both ways. There has been many flat earthers who have spent their whole life developing their theory, and then they were persecuted for it. You forget the flat-earther holocaust of 1612 in England. How disgusting.
-ujb.

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2006, 01:05:25 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
And where exactly do you think I mistook speed for acceleration, or vice versa?

you did, quite implicit, but you did.

Quote from: "Unimportant"
Thus, mass can be interpreted as a function of velocity, which we all know as relative.

ok, let's take:

F = m * a

resolved for m:

m = F / a

where

a = s / t^2

while speed is

v = s / t

together:

m = F / (s / t^2)

thus, mass can NOT be interpreted as a function of velocity, because you cannot get rid of the second t.

thus, mass can be interpreted as a function of velocity CHANGING OVER TIMER, which is the basic formula:

F = m * a (a is acceleration, velocity over time)

all about. mass is absolute, according to the general theory of gravity, which declares mass and gravity as a property of spacetime.

lg,
wzzzrd

Re: the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 01:11:28 AM »
Quote from: "UNCLE JIM BOB"

The apple always falls down because of what we call "Intelligent Falling", whereby god ensures that the apples falls down. This is very understable, so I doubt you will have any questions.

as you predicted, i will not have any questions. "Intelligent Falling"...you made my day ;)

lg,
wzzzrd

Re: the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 01:18:33 AM »
Quote from: "wzzzrd"
Quote from: "UNCLE JIM BOB"

The apple always falls down because of what we call "Intelligent Falling", whereby god ensures that the apples falls down. This is very understable, so I doubt you will have any questions.

as you predicted, i will not have any questions. "Intelligent Falling"...you made my day ;)

lg,
wzzzrd

I'm glad to see I have enlightened you, as unimportant hasn't been able to get through to you yet. I would postulate you have a labrynth of mathematical algorithoms standing in the way of reason, logic, and a flat-earth.
-ujb.

Re: the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 01:24:25 AM »
Quote from: "UNCLE JIM BOB"

I'm glad to see I have enlightened you, as unimportant hasn't been able to get through to you yet. I would postulate you have a labrynth of mathematical algorithoms standing in the way of reason, logic, and a flat-earth.
-ujb.

leave "reason" and "logic" from the sentence, and you may be nearer the truth than you thought^^

lg,
wzzzrd

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2006, 01:25:23 AM »
Quote
you did, quite implicit, but you did.

Incorrect. You think I did, but I did not.

As for your reiterated beliefs about relativity and mass, I'll let you find your own mistake.

In your model, why is it impossible to accelerate beyond the speed of light? You yourself said F = M * A, and dV = AT.

Combining and solving for V, and substituting in the speed of light C, we have:

C = (F * T) / M

My question to you is, then, why on earth can't we go faster than the speed of light? If mass is constant and absolute, all we would need is a constant, finite force, and enough time. But you clearly seem to think travel at the speed of light is impossible.

Why?

The answer is that the only way for lightspeed travel to be impossible is if mass increases energy, and energy increases with velocity. After all, you said it yourself; E = MC^2, and since C is constant, if E increases, so much M.

Quote
mass is absolute, according to the general theory of gravity, which declares mass and gravity as a property of spacetime.

I'm not as versed on GR as some people on this board, but I'm quite sure it says nothing about mass being absolute. In fact, I'm quite certain - as it is the theory of general relativity - it claims nothing is absolute, excepting the speed of light.

Furthermore, I believe it was Einstein himself who first proposed the following equation:

Code: [Select]


M =    M(rest)
    -----------
    [ 1 -  Vx^2  ]^2
    [      ----  ]
    [       C^2  ]

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2006, 07:03:07 AM »
You really don't think Einstein was a wretched fool-puppet of Round Earthers?

The Government manipulated your beloved Mathematician into aiding the development of a thermal nuclear device for Flat's sake...
o man, my head is BUMPIN'

the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 07:23:05 AM »
Quote from: "Loco"
You really don't think Einstein was a wretched fool-puppet of Round Earthers?

One could come to that conclusion, but in this thread, wzzzrd (a round Earther) is trying to prove that Einstein was wrong, when he states that mass is absolute - a statement that contradicts Einstein's theories.

?

Erasmus

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the cat bites her tail...
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2006, 08:51:55 AM »
Quote from: "Copernicus_was_wrong"
One could come to that conclusion, but in this thread, wzzzrd (a round Earther) is trying to prove that Einstein was wrong, when he states that mass is absolute - a statement that contradicts Einstein's theories.


Give him a break; you don't meet many REers who know anything about relativity.  It's totally forgiveable that he doesn't know all of it.

wzzzrd: in relativity, you assume nothing is absolute except that the laws of physics are the same to all observers, regardless of their state of motion.  I am always at rest with respect to myself, so my mass is always my rest mass as I measure it.  Therefore if I measure some force applied to me, I will also experience an acceleration, always, according to F=ma.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?