Poll

Should homosexual couples have the right to marriage in the United States?

Yes
44 (77.2%)
No
13 (22.8%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Proposition 8

  • 427 Replies
  • 61123 Views
*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65291
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2008, 11:19:17 AM »
It was mainly that bastard saint paul who did the gay-bashing. And the women-bashing. And anyone-he-didnt-like-bashing.
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

*

Wendy

  • 18492
  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2008, 11:20:15 AM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2008, 11:21:57 AM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2008, 11:24:28 AM »
Several points

So?  Why does anyone care what two adults do, as long as they're not hurting anyone? 

Firstly the idea that the actions of adults only become a matter for society if their actions impact other negatively is a deeply liberal (not int he pejorative US sense but in the original Enlightenment sense) idea.Virtually all religious groups believe in absolute moral standards (that apply to everyone regardless of an individuals beliefs) that are more complex than simply do not harm others (though most religions are generally not in favor of harming others). As a consequence of that framework an action that harms no one can still be an action that is evil and needs to be stopped. Of course there are wide differences in religious traditions and among religious people as to the best way to go about doing this it is tough to make any more specific generalizations. Suffice it to say that opposition ot gay marriage can be totally valid logically speaking (meaning that if one accepts certain propositions about morality as axioms of ones behavior one can create a coherent argument in defence of Proposition 8). It is of course important to remember that valid is not the same as true.

If they really want to protect marriage, maybe they should make divorce illegal. 

I can guarantee that there are religious fundamentalist groups that would be overjoyed if divorce was made illegal, so I'm not sure what your point was since a desire to outlaw gay marriage and a desire to outlaw divorce are not contradictory or mutually exclusive.

A perplexed
Cinlef
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:33:50 PM by Cinlef »
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

?

Mrs. Peach

  • Official Member
  • 6258
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2008, 11:26:23 AM »
It was mainly that bastard saint paul who did the gay-bashing. And the women-bashing. And anyone-he-didnt-like-bashing.

Woo Hoo!  Another anti-pauline!  Let's celebrate!

*

Wendy

  • 18492
  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2008, 11:36:41 AM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65291
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2008, 11:39:45 AM »
It was mainly that bastard saint paul who did the gay-bashing. And the women-bashing. And anyone-he-didnt-like-bashing.

Woo Hoo!  Another anti-pauline!  Let's celebrate!

yay!
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • The Elder Ones
  • 50932
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2008, 11:41:35 AM »
If they really want to protect marriage, maybe they should make divorce illegal. 

I can guarantee that there are religious fundamentalist groups that would be overjoyed if divorce was made illegal, so I'm not sure what your point was since a desire to outlaw gay marriage and a desire to outlaw divorce are not contradictory or mutually exclusive.

An perplexed
Cinlef
My point is that gay marriage isn't a threat to marriage, and that these people are hypocrites.  The biggest argument in the US against gay marriage is that it undermines and cheapens marriage.  That it somehow harms the "sanctity" of marriage.. I guarantee you that many opponents of gay marriage have been divorced at least once, and some of them more.. just how sacred to they really believe marriage to be? If you run off to Vegas, get drunk, and get married by an Elvis impersonator at 2am.. is that marriage more sacred than the one between two people who happen to be of the same sex, who truly love each other?  I know that it isn't.. but it's not illegal either.

I love this site for Bible quotes http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2008, 12:16:50 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2008, 12:30:35 PM »
If they really want to protect marriage, maybe they should make divorce illegal. 

I can guarantee that there are religious fundamentalist groups that would be overjoyed if divorce was made illegal, so I'm not sure what your point was since a desire to outlaw gay marriage and a desire to outlaw divorce are not contradictory or mutually exclusive.

An perplexed
Cinlef
My point is that gay marriage isn't a threat to marriage, and that these people are hypocrites.  The biggest argument in the US against gay marriage is that it undermines and cheapens marriage.  That it somehow harms the "sanctity" of marriage.. I guarantee you that many opponents of gay marriage have been divorced at least once, and some of them more.. just how sacred to they really believe marriage to be? If you run off to Vegas, get drunk, and get married by an Elvis impersonator at 2am.. is that marriage more sacred than the one between two people who happen to be of the same sex, who truly love each other?  I know that it isn't.. but it's not illegal either.

I love this site for Bible quotes http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
Not saying that the opponents aren't hypocrites nor am I saying that they are hypocrites (some almost certainly are but I don't know every person opposed to gay marriage in the United States and as a consequence I'm not going to make any assumptions about their own personal lives....). The point of my previous comment was simply that I think it is unfair to fanatics to assume that they don't also want to ban divorce and probably Vegas chapels as well. (That however is a quest with less public support and consequently makes the news less ofter) I think however that your are not understanding what people mean by "the sanctity of marriage" in this context, (at least the way I understood it) is that the word marriage is cheapened if it is applied to relationships that are not marriage (since marriage in this context is strictly limited to between a man and a woman [and usually other conditions that vary from religion to religion]).

As to the Bible quotes website while it is fairly amusing, mocking peoples cherished beliefs is not really an adequate substitute for seriously trying to understand them.

A calm
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65291
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2008, 12:32:41 PM »
A calm
Cinlef

At last you dropped the n!
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2008, 12:34:47 PM »
A calm
Cinlef

At last you dropped the n!
I can't believe I missed using An inappropriately so many  times, gah this is the price of lack of sleep.

A mortified
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35374
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2008, 01:08:42 PM »
Religion should have no place in government.

*

Colonel Gaydafi

  • Spam Moderator
  • Planar Moderator
  • 65291
  • Queen of the gays!
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2008, 01:21:13 PM »
A calm
Cinlef

At last you dropped the n!
I can't believe I missed using An inappropriately so many  times, gah this is the price of lack of sleep.

A mortified
Cinlef

Can you go back to using 'an' inappropriately please?
Quote from: WardoggKC130FE
If Gayer doesn't remember you, you might as well do yourself a favor and become an hero.
Quote from: Raa
there is a difference between touching a muff and putting your hand into it isn't there?

*

Wendy

  • 18492
  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

At least I provided it. Would you care to answer my question now?
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2008, 01:57:50 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

At least I provided it. Would you care to answer my question now?
I didn't see that, tired and hung over. Jesus proclaimed the old testament thrown out. I'm looking for new testament here.

*

Wendy

  • 18492
  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2008, 02:01:17 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

At least I provided it. Would you care to answer my question now?
I didn't see that, tired and hung over. Jesus proclaimed the old testament thrown out. I'm looking for new testament here.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

?

Wakka Wakka

  • 1525
  • Beat The Hell Outta Spheres!
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2008, 03:14:01 PM »
Religion should have no place in government.
Oh god yes...wait a second.
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2008, 03:27:53 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

At least I provided it. Would you care to answer my question now?
I didn't see that, tired and hung over. Jesus proclaimed the old testament thrown out. I'm looking for new testament here.
In order for it to apply to a modern day christian, I need a new testament quote.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35374
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2008, 03:28:23 PM »

?

Moonlit

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6061
  • The Rebound
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2008, 03:30:33 PM »
Firstly, I find it absolutely ridiculous that California decided all the sudden to ban something they allowed.  That should be illegal like double jeopardy, or at least left to the state congress to decide and not the every day voter.  Especially since the average person can't make up their mind either way.  This should be a decision left to the individual state government, in which they should point out where in the Constitution it says you can't be legally married if you're marrying a man and you are a man.

Secondly, this whole marriage = one man one woman spill is bullshit.  Christians walk around acting like they fucking invented it.  Who the hell are they to say you don't have the right?  And why is this even becoming a legal issue?  I'm pretty sure that there's supposed to be a separation of church and state.  This means that the government can't go into the business of various religions (excluding those that are harmful to society) and laws shouldn't be made based on religious views.  In the Declaration of Independence it states that we as humans have the right to the pursuit of happiness.  I guess they only mean if you're a heterosexual Christian or Jew.
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

*

Raist

  • The Elder Ones
  • 30590
  • The cat in the Matrix
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2008, 03:31:46 PM »
Firstly, I find it absolutely ridiculous that California decided all the sudden to ban something they allowed.  That should be illegal like double jeopardy, or at least left to the state congress to decide and not the every day voter.  Especially since the average person can't make up their mind either way.  This should be a decision left to the individual state government, in which they should point out where in the Constitution it says you can't be legally married if you're marrying a man and you are a man.

Secondly, this whole marriage = one man one woman spill is bullshit.  Christians walk around acting like they fucking invented it.  Who the hell are they to say you don't have the right?  And why is this even becoming a legal issue?  I'm pretty sure that there's supposed to be a separation of church and state.  This means that the government can't go into the business of various religions (excluding those that are harmful to society) and laws shouldn't be made based on religious views.  In the Declaration of Independence it states that we as humans have the right to the pursuit of happiness.  I guess they only mean if you're a heterosexual Christian or Jew.

Here's the thing. Most people in the U.S. are dumb enough to think Christianity started the whole marriage thing. (adam and eve duh

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35374
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2008, 03:32:17 PM »
Thank you, George Bush.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • The Elder Ones
  • 50932
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2008, 04:09:12 PM »
If they really want to protect marriage, maybe they should make divorce illegal. 

I can guarantee that there are religious fundamentalist groups that would be overjoyed if divorce was made illegal, so I'm not sure what your point was since a desire to outlaw gay marriage and a desire to outlaw divorce are not contradictory or mutually exclusive.

An perplexed
Cinlef
My point is that gay marriage isn't a threat to marriage, and that these people are hypocrites.  The biggest argument in the US against gay marriage is that it undermines and cheapens marriage.  That it somehow harms the "sanctity" of marriage.. I guarantee you that many opponents of gay marriage have been divorced at least once, and some of them more.. just how sacred to they really believe marriage to be? If you run off to Vegas, get drunk, and get married by an Elvis impersonator at 2am.. is that marriage more sacred than the one between two people who happen to be of the same sex, who truly love each other?  I know that it isn't.. but it's not illegal either.

I love this site for Bible quotes http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
Not saying that the opponents aren't hypocrites nor am I saying that they are hypocrites (some almost certainly are but I don't know every person opposed to gay marriage in the United States and as a consequence I'm not going to make any assumptions about their own personal lives....). The point of my previous comment was simply that I think it is unfair to fanatics to assume that they don't also want to ban divorce and probably Vegas chapels as well. (That however is a quest with less public support and consequently makes the news less ofter) I think however that your are not understanding what people mean by "the sanctity of marriage" in this context, (at least the way I understood it) is that the word marriage is cheapened if it is applied to relationships that are not marriage (since marriage in this context is strictly limited to between a man and a woman [and usually other conditions that vary from religion to religion]).

As to the Bible quotes website while it is fairly amusing, mocking peoples cherished beliefs is not really an adequate substitute for seriously trying to understand them.

A calm
Cinlef
I understand perfectly what they mean by "sanctity of marriage"..  what I'm saying is that marriage isn't owned by the religious.  It's a contract between two people and the govt.  God is only involved if the people being married so choose.  People get married everyday by judges, or justices of the peace without any religious ceremonies.. they are still "married".  Do you understand what I'm saying?  Christian "fanatics" don't own the word, and they didn't coin it.  Now they are taking civil unions and domestic partnerships away from the gays as well.. this isn't about protecting the sanctity of marriage, it's about them forcing their religious views on everyone. 

I didn't post the link to the bible quotes for you.  It was for Raist and Wendy, cause they were looking for quotes about homos in the bible... and I find the mocking of people's "cherished beliefs" to be much preferable to pretentious fake outrage.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

?

Cinlef

  • The Elder Ones
  • 969
  • The Earth is a Sphere
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2008, 05:50:35 PM »

I understand perfectly what they mean by "sanctity of marriage"..  what I'm saying is that marriage isn't owned by the religious.  It's a contract between two people and the govt.  God is only involved if the people being married so choose.  People get married everyday by judges, or justices of the peace without any religious ceremonies.. they are still "married".  Do you understand what I'm saying?  Christian "fanatics" don't own the word, and they didn't coin it.  Now they are taking civil unions and domestic partnerships away from the gays as well.. this isn't about protecting the sanctity of marriage, it's about them forcing their religious views on everyone. 

I didn't post the link to the bible quotes for you.  It was for Raist and Wendy, cause they were looking for quotes about homos in the bible... and I find the mocking of people's "cherished beliefs" to be much preferable to pretentious fake outrage.
I'm not saying that the word marriage is owned by the anyone simply that it is felt to be, which is a result of a confusion between marriage in a religious sense (ie a ceremony performed by a priest/rabbi/group of believers etc that is binding on adherents of that faith[ as long as they are adherents of that faith]) as opposed to marriage in the legal/civil sense (the contract/legal status with the legal privileges it confers and as you mentioned.
As to it being about forcing beliefs on to others, it certainly is and I'm reasonably sure I never implied otherwise..... (if I did feel free to throw the quote in my face cause I'd deserve it)

As to my comments on the Bible annotation site, I'll grant that mockery is better than pretentious fake outrage, (and rereading my post yeah I really seemed like a prick though I do stand by the gist of what I said) I was mostly annoyed in that it seems to perpetrate an assumption I find homophobic, that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of the inhabitants being homosexual, it seems to me that the final straw that lead to their destruction was the fact they were willing to rape guests thus  raping  someone and violating the code of hospitality (Compare Genesis 19 with Letter to the Hebrews 13:1-3)
Sorry if I came off as an arrogant jerk (well as more of an arrogant jerk than I in fact am)

A contrite
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9074
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2008, 08:44:24 PM »
Proposition 8 is about granting special treatment to gays and lesbians. No one is preventing a gay man from marrying, only from marrying another man. It is and has always been legal for a man, whether gay or straight, to marry a woman. This is about providing special treatment to allow gay men and lesbian woman to marry people of the same sex. I know that this is hard for some of you to understand but it is true.

Hold up buddy. First and foremost, you may or may not know that homosexuals cannot choose their preferences. Choosing for the majority of people discriminates against the minority group. I understand your point, but it is flawed.

Consider this:
Let's say almost everyone likes red cars and thus car companies sell only red cars.
Now, suppose someone wanted a blue car. He has the right to a red car, but it is illegal for him to choose blue because he is unlike the majority? It is illegal because others do not agree with him? That's blatant discrimination.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

*

Wendy

  • 18492
  • I laugh cus you fake
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2008, 10:26:04 PM »
It's been a long time since I looked up homosexuals in the bible.. but I don't remember Jesus saying anything about them, wasn't all that in the OT?
Yes, but that's not the issue. Technically, the most holy book in the word, and to some christians, the infallible word of God, says thathomosexuality is wrong. Therefore, one cannot expect a priest to marry a gay couple. Ever. Even if the law says it is allowed, a priest can still tell them to gtfo, because it's against his religion.

Please give a quote, and an interpretation of the quote from a reputable source.

How do you mean? Haven't we all seen those quotes over and over again?

Quote from: Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty straightforward. Go watch one of Venomfangx's videos on homosexuality instead, I'm sure he'll know all about what the bible has to say. Also, do you have any quotes from the bible in which  Jesus or God approves of homosexuality?

Circular reasoning is amazing. We don't need to see them because we've seen them already.

At least I provided it. Would you care to answer my question now?
I didn't see that, tired and hung over. Jesus proclaimed the old testament thrown out. I'm looking for new testament here.
In order for it to apply to a modern day christian, I need a new testament quote.

So you mean that creationists aren't christians?
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

*

Emir Parkreiner

  • 409
  • Killer with a conscience.
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2008, 12:59:42 AM »
Those fags sure got told.

And what's so important about calling it a marriage when they can have an identical legal relationship with a different name?

*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9074
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2008, 07:25:50 AM »
And what's so important about calling it a marriage when they can have an identical legal relationship with a different name?
Calling it anything else would support the discrimination.

1. 'Separate but equal', isn't equal. Marriage is a union of people, and terms like 'gay marriage' are separating them from the majority, without legitimate reason.

2. This separation leads to discrimination via the Saphir Whorf Hypothesis. It has enormous empirical evidence backing it, and it states that language shapes perception. Sounds hokey, but I'll explain it:

Synonymous terms are introduced into a language in order to differentiate between things that shouldn't be separated. (I think Jewish people don't have separate words for Jam and Jelly, but it can't reflect societal prejudice because the subject isn't a person or group)

In the instance that the word is introduced to separate a group of people, it is usually done for discriminatory purposes or taboo views. Creating such a word gives the word a demeaning slant. The word 'nigger' was introduced to describe a group of people who already had social labels, but it became horribly condescending. Homosexuals were labeled as 'gay' or 'fags' to separate them further and dehumanize/alienate them. Applying more labels to the minority is not only unnecessary but damaging.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

*

ﮎingulaЯiτy

  • Arbitrator
  • 9074
  • Resident atheist.
Re: Proposition 8
« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2008, 07:36:42 AM »
So you mean that creationists aren't christians?
It sounds like you disagree with the view that you are asking if it is representative of his argument.
...Did you mean to ask "Christians aren't creationists?"

Suffice it to say that opposition to gay marriage can be totally valid logically speaking (meaning that if one accepts certain propositions about morality as axioms of one's behavior one can create a coherent argument in defense of Proposition 8 ). It is of course important to remember that valid is not the same as true.
Accepting certain propositions about morality is assumption based and emotionally based. Same applies to the extension of morality to behavior. Such an argument would not logically valid as it lacks structural support.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.