I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2008, 11:27:17 PM »
Why don't we have the 'facepalm' emoticon in the editor? 

You are correct if your window is your only source of information in the world, don't see any objects moving below the horizon, and don't pay attention to any patterns that occur outside your window over time.

But we all have access to a lot more information.  Please refer to the bullet lists at the beginning of this thread. I tried to be thorough there for a reason - dispute them if you want but don't ignore them please. 

Just with what is outside your window:  FET could be right about objects over the horizon due to bendy light, but it is inelegant whereas a curvature is elegant.  It is inelegant because it adds a bunch of unknowns (nature of source, nature of isolated effects) whereas ROT works without ever introducing a new element, let alone an unknown. 

ROT also explains the seasons and the motion of the sun throughout the year, and relative location vs the equator perfectly and is simple enough a 7 year old could understand it.  (I did, in second grade.)  Can you say the same for the FET explanation of all these things that can be seen from your window?

What the hell is "ROT?"

And yeah, FET provides sufficient explanations for the seasons and the patterns and motions of the sun throughout the year. Read Earth: Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 11:29:30 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2008, 11:29:59 PM »
Why don't we have the 'facepalm' emoticon in the editor? 

You are correct if your window is your only source of information in the world, don't see any objects moving below the horizon, and don't pay attention to any patterns that occur outside your window over time.

But we all have access to a lot more information.  Please refer to the bullet lists at the beginning of this thread. I tried to be thorough there for a reason - dispute them if you want but don't ignore them please. 

Just with what is outside your window:  FET could be right about objects over the horizon due to bendy light, but it is inelegant whereas a curvature is elegant.  It is inelegant because it adds a bunch of unknowns (nature of source, nature of isolated effects) whereas ROT works without ever introducing a new element, let alone an unknown. 

ROT also explains the seasons and the motion of the sun throughout the year, and relative location vs the equator perfectly and is simple enough a 7 year old could understand it.  (I did, in second grade.)  Can you say the same for the FET explanation of all these things that can be seen from your window?

What the hell is "ROT?"

Round Orth Theory, that claims we are not only on a round planet, but it's actually named Orth, and we were moved here from the Earth without our knowledge.   ;D

But seriously, ROT is an abbrev that comes out too easily when I mean to type RET.... sorry about that, I mean RET if I ever say ROT, but I'll try to catch it in the future.

Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2008, 11:40:16 PM »
Quote
Do the FEers here feel that FET holds the veracity to be "the most viable option" for people to adopt when they have no preconceptions?

Yep. A person with no preconceptions would look out his window and see for himself that the earth exists as a plane.

Have you never flown in a plane before?  Have you never seen something cresting the horizon?  If the earth is a plane, why do these phenomena occur?  I checked the FAQ with no joy on this?

Should have checked the other posts first... jumped in too soon... but "bendy light".  Which way does this light actually bend?  Is light bending equally into a convex shape all around us?  How does this give us horizon effects - I'm not sure how that works.  Surely no matter where light were coming from and along what course, it still wouldn't give a horizon effect?

*confused*  More information please?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 11:47:03 PM by corsarius »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2008, 11:51:23 PM »
Quote
Have you never flown in a plane before?

I've been on planes. The earth is still flat from the height of an international flight.

TheEngineer, a pilot who posts on this forum, tells us that the horizon of the earth is not curved from the air.

Quote:

    "I believe I said that I put myself through college working for an airline, thus having access to free flights around the world.  I also worked for a private FBO, in which the owner owned a Cessna Citation.  I am also a licensed pilot.  Not once, during any of the hundreds if not thousands of flights I've been on, have I ever witnessed the curvature of the Earth."

Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2008, 11:54:09 PM »
Should have checked the other posts first... jumped in too soon... but "bendy light".  Which way does this light actually bend?  Is light bending equally into a convex shape all around us?  How does this give us horizon effects - I'm not sure how that works.  Surely no matter where light were coming from and along what course, it still wouldn't give a horizon effect?

*confused*  More information please?

Also, read the other threads - "bendy light" comes up a lot, and is only mentioned in this thread to summarize that it is used in FET, not to rehash the many discussions on it.  They feel it comes from Dark Energy, which has a field around the Earth or something, and only comes into play when FET would not match up with actual observations.  I think it may be mentioned in the Dark Energy thread - I forget where I found it but you'll also find links to older threads quite often in threads when a topic comes up again.  Searching helps too.

EDIT:

Also, for clarification on the ideas thrown around in a debate, it's worth checking out the questions & clarification section:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=12.0
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 12:01:39 AM by paddy »

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MadDogX

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2008, 11:57:54 PM »
The only evidence we need to conclude that the Earth is round is the sinking ship effect. It is observed consistently, even through telescopes - therefore it is not an illusion of perspective. If you try to explain it with bendy light, you are invalidating the "observational evidence" for flat Earth because you are admitting that the Earth is observably round.

Let me put it this way: </FET>
Quote from: Professor Gaypenguin
I want an Orion slave woman :(
Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2008, 12:22:59 AM »
Quote
It is observed consistently, even through telescopes

Proof?

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MadDogX

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2008, 12:43:30 AM »
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It is observed consistently, even through telescopes

Proof?

There are numerous images on the internet. Some people have even done their own experiments and posted images on this forum. In one thread you yourself even declared the sinking ship effect that was clearly visible through a telescope as "proof" of bendy light. Why do you feign ignorance? You yourself have acknowledged the existence of the effect through a telescope.

EDIT: While we're on the subject, how about some "proof" that ships sinking over the horizon can be fully restored through a telescope?
Quote from: Professor Gaypenguin
I want an Orion slave woman :(
Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.


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Moon squirter

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2008, 01:08:13 AM »
Quote
It is observed consistently, even through telescopes

Proof?

...In one thread you yourself even declared the sinking ship effect that was clearly visible through a telescope as "proof" of bendy light.

Yes, I remember that also.

Tom, you yourself have thereby admitted the earth looks curved and that Robothem is wrong (albeit via a different line of reasoning).

That's all we needed to know.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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markjo

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2008, 05:33:05 AM »
Quote
Have you never flown in a plane before?

I've been on planes. The earth is still flat from the height of an international flight.

TheEngineer, a pilot who posts on this forum, tells us that the horizon of the earth is not curved from the air.

Quote:

    "I believe I said that I put myself through college working for an airline, thus having access to free flights around the world.  I also worked for a private FBO, in which the owner owned a Cessna Citation.  I am also a licensed pilot.  Not once, during any of the hundreds if not thousands of flights I've been on, have I ever witnessed the curvature of the Earth."

TheEngineer is now working for a government contractor and his testimony can no longer be considered reliable.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2008, 07:31:10 AM »
I take it that applies retroactively as well?
Quote from: Arthur Schopenhauer
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2008, 04:11:42 AM »
FET provides sufficient explanations for the seasons and the patterns and motions of the sun throughout the year. Read Earth: Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham.

Except that Rowbotham's model does not explain the motion of the Sun as observed in the sky. 

The difference in circumference in the orbit at Equinox versus Solstice would mean that there would be observable differences in the angular velocity of the Sun.  As the Sun passed overhead to an observer standing on the Equator, it would be moving faster than when it is overhead during the Solstice on 21 June, because it has to cover a larger circumference orbit in the same 24 hours.  It would have to be moving even faster on 21 December.

There are also problems with this model explaining the fact that the Sun is above the horizon for significantly longer than 12 hours during the Antarctic summer.

Fixed Time Typo
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 06:32:01 AM by Rig Navigator »

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trig

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Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2008, 06:28:59 AM »
Significantly longer than 12 hours. Please fix that typo.

Re: I can't prove the Earth is round or flat: the debate so far
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2008, 06:32:15 AM »
Significantly longer than 12 hours. Please fix that typo.

Thanks for catching that.