Tom Bishop

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Tom Bishop
« on: October 30, 2008, 12:21:28 PM »
The universe has already expanded forever.
lol. Explain yourself.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 03:23:45 PM »
The universe has already expanded forever.
lol. Explain yourself.
Its expanded for all of the good forever, the rest of forever is the crappy generic kind.
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 09:46:27 AM »
The universe has already expanded forever.
lol. Explain yourself.

Time is not quantized, which means that during the inflation phase after the Big Bang the universe could expand infinitely in a limited amount of time. The Inflation Theory proposes a period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe during its first few moments.

Most modern RE/Big Bang theories holds that the universe is infinite in from the initial FTL inflation and expansion of space directly after the Big Bang.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 09:50:41 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 09:53:49 AM »
The universe has already expanded forever.
lol. Explain yourself.

Time is not quantized, which means that during the inflation phase after the Big Bang the universe could expand infinitely in a limited amount of time. The Inflation Theory proposes a period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion of the universe during its first few moments.

Most modern RE/Big Bang theories holds that the universe is infinite in from the initial FTL inflation and expansion of space directly after the Big Bang.
Tom, I thought you were gone forever, i was so worried *hugs*
Normally when I'm not sure I just cop a feel.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2008, 10:05:03 AM »
Forever means all eternity. Unending. Compared to a number line, this is a function of infinity, not an infinitesimal.

As much as I dislike quoting Gulliver:
Please see Expert Answer.

I would like to see a reliable source indicating it is not quantized. Otherwise, your claim of a 'past forever' scenario is speculative at best.

I'm also under the impression that the general consensus was that the universe is finite and simply curved extra dimensionally. Not to mention growing faster and faster right now.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 10:10:45 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008, 12:48:52 PM »
if the universe was infinite it couldn?t expand any more

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Parsifal

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 12:49:58 PM »
if the universe was infinite it couldn?t expand any more

Wrong. Common misconception of what infinity is.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 01:01:20 PM »
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Tom, I thought you were gone forever, i was so worried *hugs*

I'm not gone. I've just been busy with life lately.

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Forever means all eternity. Unending. Compared to a number line, this is a function of infinity, not an infinitesimal.

I'm speaking of "forever" as in length, height, and depth. Not time. Inflation theory goes that at the moment of the Big Bang space grew into infinite depth, length, and height, and that it was able to do this in a short finite amount of time. Infinite space literally popped into existence in the moments of the Big Bang.

It does not necessarily take forever to expand infinitely because time is not quantized according to GR. Time cannot be broken into distinct indivisible chunks. Since time is infinitely indivisible, the cosmic geometric progression and expansion of the universe at the moment of the big bang can be nearly instant, filling the universe infinitely in a finite amount of time.

There are some theories in Quantum Mechanics which hypothesize a finite unit of time called the Quanta, but the existence of the Quanta is dubious at best and is in direct contradiction to General and Special Relativity, since they predict a continuous flowing nature of time which can be compressed or stretched infinitely depending on frames of references.  The quantization of time is actually one of the big hold-ups in finding a Grand Unified Theory which ties QM and GR together.

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I'm also under the impression that the general consensus was that the universe is finite and simply curved extra dimensionally. Not to mention growing faster and faster right now

I'm just pointing out that the theory taught in schools is that inflation expanded infinitely in a finite amount of time. You're talking about the expanding space/dark energy theory, which started sometime after the Big Bang, and is completely separate from Inflation Theory. They are not one in the same. They are supposed to have separate causes and separate mechanisms.

How can space expand when it is already infinite? Well, there are also different kinds of infinities, where infinite number sets can continue to grow at higher levels. GR predicts a variable continuous universe where a unit of space can be stretched or compressed while remaining as that measured unit.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 10:35:56 PM by Tom Bishop »

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trig

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2008, 01:37:50 AM »
There are some theories in Quantum Mechanics which hypothesize a finite unit of time called the Quanta
Who would want to read about complex physical theories from someone that throws the words "finite" and "infinite" around without a care in the world?

If by "finite" you mean "indivisible", your definition of quanta is right. Now that you have a definition, you can start studying the subject in which you think you are such an expert.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 01:40:39 AM by trig »

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trig

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 01:51:01 AM »

I'm just pointing out that the theory taught in schools is that inflation expanded infinitely in a finite amount of time.
Same as before. What does "inflation expanded infinitely" even mean? Nothing in physics is really infinite. Even the size of the known universe is finite.

Maybe you are saying that the universe expands indefinitely. That is a whole different argument.

If you want to talk mathematics, that is another subject entirely.

Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2008, 05:56:02 PM »
The universe has already expanded forever.
lol. Explain yourself.

Bendy time.

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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2008, 10:01:19 PM »
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Tom, I thought you were gone forever, i was so worried *hugs*

I'm not gone. I've just been busy with life lately.



How can a bot be busy with life?
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Re: Tom Bishop
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 11:19:51 PM »
Nothing in physics is really infinite.
Yes there is. See: the gravitational singularity of a black hole.

Even the size of the known universe is finite.
How do you know?