If the Earth is flat...

Good morning, it'll be sunrise soon. Rise and shine.

First things first. Don't sit there and tell me to search for your answers. If you don't know them, don't debate me and admit you've lost before it even starts. You are the self proclaimed expert, you give the answers. If we were to meet at a live debate I would expect you to have the answers to my questions just as you should expect the same of me. I don't require an original essay, cut and paste is fine with me. That said, I shall begin.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

Why do I see a distinct curve to an oceans horizon when I'm at even a modest altitude in an aircraft?

The horizon has to curve to form a circle around you. If it wasn't curved, the Earth would appear rectangular.

Wrong, get your geometry right. If the Earth were flat, it would appear flat at any altitude. But, because it's round, the curve appears to increase at higher altitudes. I've seen it, don't tell me I haven't

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

Why doesn't the sun and moons sizes change due to perspective as they get farther or closer?

Due to bendy light, you are not seeing a perfect image of the Sun. Rather, the light bends around to make it appear larger, circular and lower in the sky than would be expected.

This sounds more like a band aid to make something fit. Saying that it's a second form of light that makes the Sun look farther or closer than it is is akin to the Ancient Greeks using epicycles to explain retrograde motion of the planets. What is Bendy Light? No one can answer. All I get is “search”. I'm not here to search, I'm here to debate. You tell me the physics of this Bendy Light, I can tell you the physics of normal light, afford me the same courtesy.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

Why does a ship disappear below the horizon as it's distance increases?

Search for Electromagnetic Accelerator. This has been covered many times before.

I know what an electromagnetic accelerator is, it's closely related to a rail gun. What does this have to do with a ship going over the horizon?  Again, you're the expert, you tell me how they're related.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

If satellite TV were received from huge towers, where are they? How tall would they have to be if my SATV dish is aimed about 56 degrees above the South South East? Let me answer that, I live in Lancaster Ca, that means it would have to be in the direction of Fontana. If it were ten miles away it would be in Four Points and about 12 miles high. I... don't... see any huge towers of any size to the South South East.

If it were twelve miles high, it would have to be more than ten miles away. Also, they are stratellites, not towers.

Don't split hairs, you know as well as I do it was only an example. I was told by the other participant that large towers of undisclosed locations were the source of SATV signals. Now you tell me it's  “stratellites”. Okay, stratellites is it? How far up are these stratellites where are they located? How come a Dish Network antenna in Phoenix Az is aimed in almost exactly the same point on the celestial equator as one here in Lancaster? What are those specks of light I see in the sky with my astronomical telescope at the locations the geosynchronous satellites should be in?

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

Why aren't the SATV dishes in other locations aimed in all different directions at their respective “towers” instead of at the satellites along the Celestial Equator?

Again, stratellites. They can be high enough to emulate the positioning of geostationary satellites orbiting a round Earth.

So, you are saying they're 22,000 miles out? You can't have it both ways, are they satellites or stratellites. You cannot emulate 22,000 miles, it either is or is not. Not only that, how do they keep those stratellites in place? It seems to me that would require a rather large expenditure of fuel.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

I also happen to be an Amateur Radio operator. How come if I aim my directional antenna array using the “Flat earth Route” I can't make contact with a target station in Europe, but if I use the Great Circle route I can?

Have you personally confirmed this?

Oh, let me see, Flat Earth route, no contact, Great Circle route, contact. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK!

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

To what end? Money does not count, it would cost more money to perpetuate a hoax of this magnitude than would be made from it.

Wrong. Search.

I told you, don't pass your responsibility to participate in a debate to somebody else. At the very least cut and paste your information. Face it, to run a hoax of this magnitude would take epic amounts of resources and money.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

How would the secret be kept? With this many people involved, wouldn't somebody at least “slip”, say after a drink or two at a party?

Not very many people would need to be involved. Search.

No, you search and provide the proof, you would have to in person, do it here. Not very many people, huh? Like who? The entire workforce at NASA? The entire federal government? The government contractors? The governments of Russia, China, France, Spain, Germany and on and on? Don't you think somebody would've spilled their guts somewhere?

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

How would almost 80,000 miles of Ice Wall be guarded? The exact tactics were not covered in the FAQ.

How do you expect us to know the exact tactics? It wouldn't be a very good conspiracy if we knew their every move.

How the hell would I know? You're the expert, you tell me how they'd pull it off. The only conclusion I can come to is, you're wrong. You want to know how to make it work? Easy, remove the conspiracy theory and say the Earth is a sphere. Problem solved.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Quote from: PalomarJack on October 27, 2008, 12:49:22 PM

Citing my mention of antenna headings above, does this mean that I and every other Amateur Radio operator and CBer with a directional antenna array is in on the conspiracy?

No.

Well, I can say you got one item correct. Of course, it didn't involve pseudoscience and conspiracies, but, the thread is young. Even this could change.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 28, 2008, 12:54:16 AM

Don't think that you're the first person ever to ask these questions, either. People come here all the time thinking they can single-handedly disprove FET, you're just the most recent.

Parish the thought, I would never execute such a transgression. The difference between their scientific proof and mine is direct, visual evidence that anyone can see for themselves, without searching some forum for the answers. The fact is, a spherical Earth eliminates:

A second form of ambiguous light that defies physics, Bendy Light
A splotlight for the Sun
A disk for a moon
Ice walls with their hordes of black helicopters
Stratellites and huge fuel expenditures (No one agrees on this)
Thousands, maybe millions of extremely tall hard to hide radio towers (No one agrees on this, either)
Bloated, unexplainable conspiracies involving a cast of millions.

It explains and gives us:

The reason I need to use a Great Circle route to make many contacts on the air
The curvature of the horizon as seen from altitude
A rising Sun without ambiguous explanations
A setting Sun without ambiguous explanations
The faces and eclipses of the moon without ambiguous explanations
A Solar eclipse and sunspots without, you guessed it, ambiguous explanations
A simple and fascinating explanation as to what the Sun and stars are and how they work
A simple and fascinating explanation as to what the Moon and planets are
A really cool place to hang geosynchronous satellites
An equally cool place to orbit GPS satellites
A bitchin' geomagnetic field so if my GPS fails I can use a compass
It also protects us from the nastiest forms of radiation from space
Retrograde motion of the other planets
An ionosphere so I can talk to people all over the world using HF radio instead of a boring cell phone
Beautiful stars, planets, galaxies and nebula to look at in my telescope
A wonderful view of the ISS when it passes over my town in my aforementioned telescope
And the best part, no conspiracies

Tell me, can your flat Earth do all that cool stuff? No, but my spherical one can. And it does it all, no fuss, no muss and no ambiguity with, like I said, “Simple Elegance”.

What they are saying jack is everything happens because of an optical illusion. Instead of actually believing what your eyes tell you, the bendy light wins everytime. When did people loose faith in their eyesight!

Quote from: Doctor Roundbottom on November 07, 2008, 11:49:27 PM

I think the same thing when looking down upon a wide plain and questioning to myself, How could anyone buy that this is an optical illusion, that the world is somehow round despite what our senses clearly tell us?

An inability to mentally visualise geometrics, plus a refusal to apply logic keeps the FE'er vigorous and mentally wholesome.

Namely, a small section of a large 3d sphere can appromimate a small section of a large 2d plane.

A large section of a large 2d plane cannot approximate a large section of a large 3d sphere.

Tom usually steps off his chair three times before he even looks out of his window.

Wow, I must say being new here, I feel like I am watching an extended episode of "The Twilight Zone" or "Planet of the Apes"

I am a scientist and trying to be open minded as I like to hear all sides of a discussion.  In this particular thread, valid questions were asked that simple answers could resolve with proof. 

I am kind of hung up on the giant towers, stratellites (what are they?) and the Ice Wall among lots of other things.

Technology and Science can debunk all of your claims.  Can you at least show us tangible evdence of this conspiracy?  Bendy light and its all fake aren't clear proof.  Is Bendy even a word?

There are many books on the subject.  Try, Slave Species of God or just about anything by Zecharia Sitchin.

Slave Species postulates that an ancient race called the Annunaki came to earth and employed primitive man mining gold in now southern Africa, supposedly the gold, sprinkled in the atmosphere of their homeworld would save them from their own impending demise.  Some of the Annunaki mated with this primitive race and in turn created the race called the Sumerians.  That's the race that we have the first evidence of a written language for in modern day Iraq for those of you not up on it.

Anyway, very interesting book.  You could also try some books by Whitley Strieber as well.  Keep in mind, many of these theories are direct spin offs of Zacharia himself.

**Why doesn't the sun and moons sizes change due to perspective as they get farther or closer?**

-->The sun and the moon are fixed sizes....why would where they were affect their size...geez you round earthers are lacking in even basic scientific knowledge.  A 12 in ruler is still 12 inches whether its in California or Bangledesh

I can answer that.  At least feasibly.  I'd like to know what my fellow F E's think though.

**Why do I see a distinct curve to an oceans horizon when I'm at even a modest altitude in an aircraft?**

-->Its a conspiracy.  The government has coated the aircraft windows with a material that bends light to make it look like you see a curve....

**Why doesn't the sun and moons sizes change due to perspective as they get farther or closer?**

-->The sun and the moon are fixed sizes....why would where they were affect their size...geez you round earthers are lacking in even basic scientific knowledge.  A 12 in ruler is still 12 inches whether its in California or Bangledesh

**Why does a ship disappear below the horizon as it's distance increases?**

-->Because it falls off the edge....why else??

Quote from: Edtharan on November 07, 2008, 07:50:47 AM

In RE, however, if you travel in a straight line like this at the equator, you would not see this error in position of the compass. With a bit more complex maths you can work out the change in direction of the compass that you would see for that distance form the North Pole.

Please explain how you propose to travel in a straight line on the surface of a Round Earth.