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Water runs down a drain in different directions

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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2006, 07:09:32 AM »
I personally do not believe you performed the experiment objectively, Penguin, on the primary basis that I performed the experiment many times and found the results myself. My secondary basis is that you are either a flat-earther, a group of people who never argue objectively, or a devil's advocate, who are just here to cause trouble.

I only wish to appeal to those who wish to look at this objectively, and I call upon them to perform experiments themselves, and take into account everything I have said, and every other factor that can effect it. I have no interest in arguing with those who are intent on believing one thing, with no interest in objectively experimenting or looking at evidences brought towards them.
Also, no-one should take my or penguin's results for granted. I have proven the point to myself, and that is all I require. Anyone else who wishes to objectively prove the point to themselves is welcome to do so, and I ask them not to delude themselves, use a proper scientific method (eliminating other variables, repeating to eradicate errors, etc), and realise things for yourselves.
Also remember the contradictions and hypocrisy of a (presumably) flat-earther using "text book articles" as an arguing tactic.

Thank you.
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2006, 07:23:39 AM »
I would also like to remind people that at LEAST one of the articles Penguin referred to indicated that water drainage COULD be used to detect the Coriolis effect if you put more effort to it than using a regular sink. In particular this quote:

Is it possible to detect the Earth’s rotation in a draining sink?

Yes, but it is very difficult. Because the Coriolis force is so small, one must go to extraordinary lengths to detect it. But, it has been done. You cannot use an ordinary sink for it lacks the requisite circular symmetry: its oval shape and off-center drain render any results suspect. Those who have succeeded used a smooth pan of about one meter in diameter with a very small hole in the center. A stopper (which could be removed from below so as to not introduce any spurious motion) blocked the hole while the pan was being filled with water. The water was then allowed to sit undisturbed for perhaps a week to let all of the motion die out which was introduced during filling. Then, the stopper was removed (from below). Because the hole was very small, the pan drained slowly indeed. This was necessary, because it takes hours before the tiny Coriolis force could develop sufficient deviation in the draining water for it to produce a circular flow. With these procedures, it was found that the rotation was always cyclonic.

If you have time, this will provide a much better and more accurate scientific method. I do not have time as the moment of writing, but at some point perhaps I will. I have no delusions that my methods were not flawed (despite them coming up with fairly concordant answers, especially when using the plastic funnel), but this one will provide even more accuracy.
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EnragedPenguin

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2006, 07:28:56 AM »
Quote from: "azz1844"
I personally do not believe you performed the experiment objectively, Penguin, on the primary basis that I performed the experiment many times and found the results myself.


I performed it as objectively as I could. I've tried it more than once on each bowl, I got the same results each time. So then I tried it under different conditions (I.E, I removed the plug in different ways, put different amounts of water...etc.) and I started getting different results. Which, to me, is indication that the coriolis force plays a very small part in determining the direction the water drains.

I also did what you suggested with the kitchen funnel. But I had a hard time keeping it level or steady. The direction the water rotated changed depending on whether or not I was holding it in my right or left hand. So I tried to find a way to hold it upright without touching it myself and when I did this the water flowed straight down with no rotation a all.

I also noticed that the direction of rotation varied depending on how I uncovered thd bottom.


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I have no interest in arguing with those who are intent on believing one thing, with no interest in objectively experimenting or looking at evidences brought towards them.


Neither do I. So I hope we haven't been wasting our time.

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Also remember the contradictions and hypocrisy of a (presumably) flat-earther using "text book articles" as an arguing tactic.


I used text book articles because I assumed you believe them to be more accurate than claims made by some random person on the internet.
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A different world cannot be built by indifferent people.
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2006, 07:42:13 AM »
I haven't been wasting my time, particularly. I have proved a point to myself, and made a point to anyone objective who wishes to examine it for themselves, you sir have been of no consequence.
I have made points on other threads regarding the evidences of Flat Earth against Round Earth, and have reminded people of the clear cut fact that Round Earth evidence GREATLY outweighs any Flat Earth supposition, and the Coriolis affect is just one of many of these.
There are those who believe the text books because they are text books. They are indeed at fault, but to anyone who is intelligent and looks at the evidences objectively, they will see that the Round Earth theory is the most plausible, and is almost definitely accurate. The intelligent and objective thinkers are the only ones whom I wish to appeal to, although I am sure they will mostly come up with the same conclusions themselves.

Luckily, the pedantic few who cling to Flat Earth because of pedantic argumenting, lack of an objective outlook on the evidences put to them, or simply just a desire to be rebelious (which is the most pathetic), will never be large enough in number to make a noticable effect on the world. The truth always prevails inevtiably, as it is human nature to attempt to discover the truth. The truth of round earth prevailed over flat earth a long, long time ago, and for good reasons, and I am glad that I am able to realise those reasons for myself.
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EnragedPenguin

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2006, 07:56:47 AM »
Quote from: "azz1844"
The intelligent and objective thinkers are the only ones whom I wish to appeal to, although I am sure they will mostly come up with the same conclusions themselves.


Then I guess I was wrong in my assumption that you consider Geographers to be intelligent and objective thinkers (which is why I kept quoting them).
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2006, 07:59:47 AM »
Most geographers are, which is why they believe in round earth.
As did the ones you quoted, in fact.
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EnragedPenguin

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2006, 08:05:41 AM »
They do believe the earth is round. They do not, however, believe you can observe the coriolis force by flushing a toilet.
Which is what I've been trying to explain to you.
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2006, 08:10:38 AM »
We have moved on from that, you are again being pedantic.
And as I have already indicated, I agree with the majority of articles displayed that a toilet is not an efficient test, because it has a lot of other variables (the flushing system produces a lot of flushes, for example).
But as usual, a flat-earther such as yourself will ignore all conversation regarding the fact that there is more evidence to support round earth, because flat-earthers are un-objective and think it is clever to nit-pick. I have made this point in other threads, and it is clear to see (just as it is clear to see here).
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EnragedPenguin

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2006, 08:22:36 AM »
Here is your original post

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Water runs down drains in different directions, depending on whether you are in the Northern hemiSPHERE or the Southern hemiSPHERE (counterclockwise and clockwise, respectively).

Please explain how this can occur on a flat earth.


All I've been trying to do in this thread is explain to you why this isn't true. Thus no flat earth explanation is neccessary.
I've never once in this thread tried to argue about the shape of the earth.
I wouldn't say we've moved on at all.
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2006, 08:29:49 AM »
At the same time, I never implied that the drain theory was not subject to other forces. I merely implied that the "spinning water" effect was another indication of round earth theory (this is a forum about discussing the shape of the earth). The phenomenon itself has been conducted by those with more accurate apparatus than myself (which you flat earthers will of course claim has been faked for no given or plausible reason), and I have conducted less-accurately, but reasonably enough, myself.
This is the "flat earth society forum", so of course everything inevitably relates to the shape of the earth.
Being pedantic will not help your cause, it will only help prove one of my points.
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EnragedPenguin

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2006, 08:40:03 AM »
Quote from: "azz1844"
At the same time, I never implied that the drain theory was not subject to other forces. I merely implied that the "spinning water" effect was another indication of round earth theory.


And I've merely implied that there is no spinning water effect, and is thus not another indication of the round earth theory.

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The phenomenon itself has been conducted by those with more accurate apparatus than myself.


But that is not what we have been discussing.
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azz1844

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2006, 08:48:38 AM »
You are again being pedantic, because that is the only way flat-earthers can appear to win any arguments.
I refuse to be drawn into another circular debate, you may refer to my other threads about this sort of discussion.
The truth is well established amongst the intelligent and objective thinkers of the world; you and your friends are irrelevant, and will thankfully make no difference to anyone or anything.
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GeoGuy

Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2006, 03:17:50 PM »
Double post.
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GeoGuy

Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2006, 03:18:44 PM »
To azz1844,

 here's the problem with your new evidence for a RE: You yourself have claimed that it's not accurate, and that other forces involved override the force you are referring to. Now, this is not to say that the Coriolis effect is not good evidence for a RE, (it is) it's just that the methods you are using to measure it don't work and cannot be tested to any degree of accuracy.
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Sas

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2006, 03:34:34 PM »
Azz is trying to avoid the "that's fake" defence... that's all... I think he know's it's got weaknesses, but the fact may well be that these things can't be CONCLUSIVELY proven at home, unless one kinda assumes huge , near impossibly difficult conspiracies and mysterious random forces keeping the sun in place don't come into it.
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mattz1010

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Water runs down a drain in different directions
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2006, 04:40:58 PM »
Quick and easy way to disprove the coriolis effect in your kitchen sink.

assume that to your front is North
..and the same thing goes for the rest of your sides.

Assuming the drain is in the center, fill a glass with water and pour it facing north. The water moves counterclockwise.

Fill a glass with water and pour it facing south. The water moves clockwise. Z0mg!1!111

Edit: It does exist, it's really weak.
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