Water runs down a drain in different directions

Hello again flat-earthers, if you really ARE what you claim to be =)

Water runs down drains in different directions, depending on whether you are in the Northern hemiSPHERE or the Southern hemiSPHERE (counterclockwise and clockwise, respectively).

Please explain how this can occur on a flat earth.

ahhhh... the old corialis effect (sp?)

it was featured on the simpsons...

Hello again flat-earthers, if you really ARE what you claim to be =)

Water runs down drains in different directions, depending on whether you are in the Northern hemiSPHERE or the Southern hemiSPHERE (counterclockwise and clockwise, respectively).

Not true. The Coriolis effect is far to small to be observed on that level. The direction water drains from a sink all depends on things like microscopic cracks and holes in the sink and the shape of the sink.

Water runs down drains in different directions, depending on whether you are in the Northern hemiSPHERE or the Southern hemiSPHERE (counterclockwise and clockwise, respectively).

No it doesn't. This has been explained here quite a few times. Here is a link describing this myth from a reasonably reputable site: http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.htm

The twisting effect of the Coriolis force is real and does influence certain large things like the movement of air masses, but the effect is so small that it plays no role in determining the direction in which water rotates as it exits from a draining sink or toilet. The Coriolis effect produces a measurable effect over huge distances and long periods of time, neither of which applies to your bathroom. Toilets and sinks drain in the directions they do because of the way water is directed into them or pulled from them. If water enters in a swirling motion (as it does when a toilet is flushed, for example), the water will exit in that same swirling pattern; as well, most basins have irregular surfaces and are not perfectly level, factors which influence the direction in which water spirals down their drains. The configuration of taps and drains is responsible for the direction of spin given to water draining from sinks and bathtubs to a degree that overwhelms the slight influence of the Coriolis force.

The effect will be observed if the water is made still and the basin made smooth, however, again, you're gonna say something like:

"Can you verify that there are no nanometric bits of dust in the basin, etc, in which case you'd have to do it in a clean-room"

I don't have a clean room... which is what you're relying on.

If you did a statistical experiment you'd see there was a bias... but naturally you can just say "Oh no we wouldn't".... you should all take up theatre.

Explain to me then, disbelievers, how I just run water down two different sinks in my house, three times each, and each time it went counterclockwise. And explain why I poured water from a tap into a small plastic funnel TEN TIMES and it went counterclockwise EACH time. Explain why when I flushed both the upstairs toilet and downstairs toilet, twice each, the water went anti-clockwise. I have conducted the experiment enough times to reasonably eliminate "chance". And I have used a number of different apparatus, so it is not due to "cracks" or "holes". Then further explain to me why water in both a sink and toilet in Australia went the other way? (And yes, I did do this when I visited my sister in Australia a year and a half ago. Granted I may be a bit sad for doing so, but I did check it out).
Also yes, the effect is very small, and I can make the water go the other way if I apply my own force to it, although it tends to revert to counterclockwise again after a while. The atoms in a liquid are not strongly attracted to each other, and so are subject to effect from small forces, and if all of them are affected by that same force, they will likely all move in that direction.

If you genuinely want to look at this objectively, then do the experiments for yourself. I would suggest pouring water into a funnel is the best idea, as pulling the plug from a bath can add an artificial force to it (so don't use that as an excuse, by yanking out the chain and claiming it went to other way - if you do it enough times to eliminate errors, which is what you DO in science, you will see it turns counterclockwise).
Of course if you do not wish to look at this objectively, which seems to be the direct arguing tactics of flat earthers, then by all means, yank the chain out, blow the spinning water with a hair drier, do what you like to make it go the other way. I have proved it to myself, and anyone else who wishes to review the evidence objectively, and I only wish to appeal to logical-thinking and intelligent people.

Yeah but, the toilet people and the funnel people are in on it and put microscopic guiding thingies in their funnels etc... did you look with a microscope in every case? And make sure there wasn't a US government radio-hairdryer satellite which magically guides water molecules?

No you didn't... so you're wrong... and then... because you're wrong, the FEers are automatically right.

Mates.

Hahaha, shafted =D

Here's a nice article on whether or not coriolis effects water in drains.

hadley cells

I happen not to agree with the person who wrote that article, on the basis that, for starters, it is his word against anyone else who claims that water DOES drain differently in different hemispheres, and also on the basis that I CONDUCTED THE EXPERIMENT MYSELF (which is what flat earthers are always banging on at us to do, especially when they know we can't conduct the experiment, so it makes them look good), and I looked at it objectively, using different mediums, filling each one up in different ways, and repeating the experiment to eliminate any potential errors in my method.
So that article you just advertised has no bearing on my argument whatsoever.

Actually, I do agree partially with the article, as the person claims that the coriolis effect DOES in fact affect the way water drains down a sink. However, he claims that you are not able to detect it without specialist equiptment, which is untrue, because I did exactly that. His comments on how the way you fill a sink or disturb the water whilst it is draining affects the spin is also accurate, as I tried successfully to change the direction of the water. However, I attempted to eliminate these problems by letting the water settle after it was poured into the sink, and minimising my miving when removing the plug. Also, there is no removal of a plug with my funnel experiment, which went counterclockwise 10 times in a row.
So basically, the argument more or less supports my theory, except it implies that the forces work to a lesser degree.

every sink in my house drains clockwise...

note that i live in the southern hemisphere...

This is from Physical Geography: A landscape appreciation by Tom L McKinght and Darrel Hess(

One phenomenon that the coriolis effect does not appear to influence is the circulation pattern of water that drains out of a wash bowl. There is a folk tale that the northern hemisphere washbowls drain clockwise and southern hemisphere washbowls counterclockwise. The time involved is so short, and the speed of the water so slow, however, that the coriolis control cannot be postulated for these movements. The characteristics of the plumbing system, the shape of the wash bowl, and pure chance are more likely to determine the flow patterns.

And this is from the article at wikipedia

Draining bathtubs/toilets
A popular misconception is that the Coriolis effect determines the direction in which bathtubs or toilets drain, and whether water always drains in one direction in the Northern Hemisphere, and in the other direction in the Southern Hemisphere. The Coriolis effect is a few orders of magnitude smaller than other random influences on drain direction, such as the geometry of the sink, toilet, or tub; whether it is flat or tilted; and the direction in which water was initially added to it. If one takes great care to create a flat circular pool of water with a small, smooth drain; to wait for eddies caused by filling it to die down; and to remove the drain from below (or otherwise remove it without introducing new eddies into the water) – then it is possible to observe the influence of the Coriolis effect in the direction of the resulting vortex. There is a good deal of misunderstanding on this point, as most people (including many scientists) do not realize how small the Coriolis effect is on small systems.[1] This is less of a puzzle once one remembers that the earth revolves once per day but that a bathtub takes only minutes to drain. When the water is being drawn towards the plughole, the radius with which it is spinning around it decreases, so its rate of rotation increases from the low background level to a noticeable spin in order to conserve its angular momentum (the same effect as a ballet dancer bringing their arms in to cause them to spin faster).

every sink in my house drains clockwise...

note that i live in the southern hemisphere...

If it's from coriolis your sink should be draining counterclocwise.

well then... looks like we just disproved it...

plus, i should add that i only have 1 sink....



another thing... notice how that wikepida site said "hemisphere".... thats a dirty word to a FE'er

To Penguin Boy


You need to shut right up, because of the following points:

Firstly, FE relies on calling everything known to science "fake" when it doesn't suit them. This relies on an encyclopaedia which can be edited by ANYONE... even FEers... and even (worse) G.W. Bush.

Secondly, FE people rely on criticising people for believing schoolbooks etc.
so then, I suppose I'll just claim that this person is a closet Flat Earther.

There are more than one factor that affects the vortices in sinks, and coriolis can be overwhelmed by other effects. However it introduces a bias. Because the other effects are random, statistics will show this bias.

Statistics gathered for example living in the Northern Hemisphere for years and using the sink every day.

Quote from: "FE is BS"

every sink in my house drains clockwise...

note that i live in the southern hemisphere...

If it's from coriolis your sink should be draining counterclocwise.

No it shouldn't. Northern hemisphere is counterclockwise, southern hemisphere is clockwise.

thank god for that.... i was starting to believe that the world was indeed flat there for a minute  

Firstly, FE relies on calling everything known to science "fake" when it doesn't suit them. This relies on an encyclopaedia which can be edited by ANYONE... even FEers... and even (worse) G.W. Bush.

Which is why I have been giving multiple sources.

Secondly, FE people rely on criticising people for believing schoolbooks etc.
so then, I suppose I'll just claim that this person is a closet Flat Earther.

This is irrellevant.

There are more than one factor that affects the vortices in sinks, and coriolis can be overwhelmed by other effects. However it introduces a bias. Because the other effects are random, statistics will show this bias.

I have never seen any research done that shows a bias of any kind for the rotational direction of water in sinks.

Here is another article

Good point about hemisphere by the way, I went straight for the argumentation jugular without noting that far more elegant bird-flip opportunity.

Ok... now, how long until some prick turns up and starts suggesting that straight lines and compass bearings are the same thing, or claims that the definition of weight includes a correction factor for altitude...

Or something else ridiculous,

And then proudly marches off believing he's somehow planted a flag in some new area of intellectual prowess?

Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"

Quote from: "FE is BS"

every sink in my house drains clockwise...

note that i live in the southern hemisphere...

If it's from coriolis your sink should be draining counterclocwise.

No it shouldn't. Northern hemisphere is counterclockwise, southern hemisphere is clockwise.

Yep you're right, i just realised that.

Ah well, that is still irellevant.

First of all, Confused Penguin, you are using arguments which flat earthers have repeatedly claimed are not satisfactory - i.e. you are taking the word of a text book for granted, without performing any experimentation or research yourself, so in that, you are shafted.
Secondly, both articles imply that there IS a Coriolis effect, suggesting that the world is indeed round and spinning on an axis.
Thirdly, the second of the two quotes you gave me more or less supports my idea. It pretty much agrees that Coriolis DOES affect the way water goes around in a sink, but that it is a small force and factor that can be countered by others. As I previously stated, I tried as best I could to minimised those other factors, which is why I got the concordant results that I obtained (i.e. that the water all went counterclockwise because I am in the northern hemisphere).
And Fourthly of course, I will again repeat that I have PERFORMED THE EXPERIMENTS MYSELF, so even if you showed me an article which completely contradicted the Coriolis affect (which neither of those two do) I would disagree with them, because I have examined it for myself.

S-H-A-F-T-E-D

Btw, my previous post was in relation to the following:

This is from Physical Geography: A landscape appreciation by Tom L McKinght and Darrel Hess( Quote:

One phenomenon that the coriolis effect does not appear to influence is the circulation pattern of water that drains out of a wash bowl. There is a folk tale that the northern hemisphere washbowls drain clockwise and southern hemisphere washbowls counterclockwise. The time involved is so short, and the speed of the water so slow, however, that the coriolis control cannot be postulated for these movements. The characteristics of the plumbing system, the shape of the wash bowl, and pure chance are more likely to determine the flow patterns.


And this is from the article at wikipedia Quote:
Draining bathtubs/toilets
A popular misconception is that the Coriolis effect determines the direction in which bathtubs or toilets drain, and whether water always drains in one direction in the Northern Hemisphere, and in the other direction in the Southern Hemisphere. The Coriolis effect is a few orders of magnitude smaller than other random influences on drain direction, such as the geometry of the sink, toilet, or tub; whether it is flat or tilted; and the direction in which water was initially added to it. If one takes great care to create a flat circular pool of water with a small, smooth drain; to wait for eddies caused by filling it to die down; and to remove the drain from below (or otherwise remove it without introducing new eddies into the water) – then it is possible to observe the influence of the Coriolis effect in the direction of the resulting vortex. There is a good deal of misunderstanding on this point, as most people (including many scientists) do not realize how small the Coriolis effect is on small systems.[1] This is less of a puzzle once one remembers that the earth revolves once per day but that a bathtub takes only minutes to drain. When the water is being drawn towards the plughole, the radius with which it is spinning around it decreases, so its rate of rotation increases from the low background level to a noticeable spin in order to conserve its angular momentum (the same effect as a ballet dancer bringing their arms in to cause them to spin faster).  

First of all, Confused Penguin, you are using arguments which flat earthers have repeatedly claimed are not satisfactory - i.e. you are taking the word of a text book for granted, without performing any experimentation or research yourself, so in that, you are shafted.

No, I'm simply pointing out that even according to the round earth theory the coriolis effect is minimal on anything other than large weather systems.

Secondly, both articles imply that there IS a Coriolis effect, suggesting that the world is indeed round and spinning on an axis.

I'm fairly certain there would be a coriolis effect on a flat earth as well. The only difference would be that it would have to make things spin in the same direction no matter which hemispere you're in.

Thirdly, the second of the two quotes you gave me more or less supports my idea. It pretty much agrees that Coriolis DOES affect the way water goes around in a sink, but that it is a small force and factor that can be countered by others.

What the quote is saying, is that the coriolis effect would affect the way water spins draining out of the sink, except that all the other forces (sink shape, irregularities in then surface, any slight tilting of the sink...) are stronger than it.

As I previously stated, I tried as best I could to minimised those other factors, which is why I got the concordant results that I obtained (i.e. that the water all went counterclockwise because I am in the northern hemisphere).
And Fourthly of course, I will again repeat that I have PERFORMED THE EXPERIMENTS MYSELF, so even if you showed me an article which completely contradicted the Coriolis affect (which neither of those two do) I would disagree with them, because I have examined it for myself.

I'll tell you what, I'm going to get up right now, fill the sinks and bathtubs in my house with water, then drain them (I'll flush the toilets too) and I'll come back and tell you what happened.

Yes, but you're an agent for the FE society, so your results will be fake, and your bath is designed by another agent who has designed it to keep you in the dark..

Also, you can't say that it's irrelevant that you rely on something that you all already refute when it supports RE point of view. Thats HIGHLY relevant.

And also, you talked about multiple sources, but there are multiple SPACE agencies, all of which prove you wrong, and you refute them, practically every book in the world says the earth is an oblate spheroid and many have for thousands of years, and you refute those, so PLEASE cut the fuckin' SHIT.

Here are the results of my experiments: (hardly scientific, but anyway)


Bathroom sink: Clockwise

Toilet: Counterclockwise

Bathtub: Clockwise

Kitchen sink: Clockwise (performed twice with same results).

azz1844 wrote:

Quote

First of all, Confused Penguin, you are using arguments which flat earthers have repeatedly claimed are not satisfactory - i.e. you are taking the word of a text book for granted, without performing any experimentation or research yourself, so in that, you are shafted.

No, I'm simply pointing out that even according to the round earth theory the coriolis effect is minimal on anything other than large weather systems.  

A minimal effect yes, which is exactly as I suggested. The other forces too can be kept to a minimum, which I attempted to do so. I am not saying the other forces will never take effect, because my methods are not 100% perfect. But if you attempt to keep other factors to a minimum, you will see that the vast majority of results show that the water turns in one direction.

Quote:

Quote

Secondly, both articles imply that there IS a Coriolis effect, suggesting that the world is indeed round and spinning on an axis.

I'm fairly certain there would be a coriolis effect on a flat earth as well. The only difference would be that it would have to make things spin in the same direction no matter which hemispere you're in.

The coriolis effect is due to the spinning of the earth, which I believe does not happen in flat earth theory. This also overlooks the fact that I tried the experiment in australia, and the majority of times the water went to OTHER way to what they do where I am (UK). Also, a flat earth has no "hemispheres"...

Quote:

Quote

Thirdly, the second of the two quotes you gave me more or less supports my idea. It pretty much agrees that Coriolis DOES affect the way water goes around in a sink, but that it is a small force and factor that can be countered by others.

What the quote is saying, is that the coriolis effect would affect the way water spins draining out of the sink, except that all the other forces (sink shape, irregularities in then surface, any slight tilting of the sink...) are stronger than it.

Yes, I know that. As I have already stated, I agree that other forces affect it. But again, if you try and keep those other effects to a minimum, you will recieve concordant directional results. This is how science works, you eliminate as many variables as you possibly can, which I did when I performed the experiment.

I'll tell you what, I'm going to get up right now, fill the sinks and bathtubs in my house with water, then drain them (I'll flush the toilets too) and I'll come back and tell you what happened.

Ok, good. But if you do so, DO IT OBJECTIVELY. Be aware that other forces DO affect it, as we have BOTH agreed. Do repeats, and make sure you do it fairly. I know the result myself, as I have performed the experiment, but if you do it objectively you will see for yourself.
A plastic kitchen funnel is a slightly more accurate way of doing this, I would say.

Yes, but you're an agent for the FE society, so your results will be fake, and your bath is designed by another agent who has designed it to keep you in the dark..

I can say his results are fake just as easily. But I haven't.

Also, you can't say that it's irrelevant that you rely on something that you all already refute when it supports RE point of view. Thats HIGHLY relevant.

I'm not relying on anything. I am simply using round earth science to demonstrate this. I can use flat earth science (which in this case would be basicaly the same) if you'd rather.

And also, you talked about multiple sources, but there are multiple SPACE agencies, all of which prove you wrong, and you refute them, practically every book in the world says the earth is an oblate spheroid and many have for thousands of years, and you refute those, so PLEASE cut the fuckin' SHIT.

I'm not trying to prove anything to myself, I'm trying to prove something to him. And as he believes in round eartyh science I feel as though I ought to use it in a debate with him. Whether or not I believe in science text books is irellevant to whether or not he does.