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ships disappearing over horizon

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Rastafarth

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ships disappearing over horizon
« on: October 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM »
I'm sure this queastin has beed asked many times, but I couldn't find any reasonal answer so I'll ask again. How do you explain the fact that ships clearly disapper over horizon? I guess everyone has already seen it, so you just can't deny it like everything else. And you can't explain it by saying that the ship is too far since it diseppears gradually...

Also I don't understand how you can actually belive in scientific theory like general relativity and yet belive in flat earth.

My last question is what makes you believe spaceflight and mainly satelites are impossible. Because if you suppose earth is sphere, it can be quite simply shown from Newton equations that body (i.e. satellite) can orbit the earth. You can see photos, videos of spaceflights, you can even see satellites with your own eye, yet you rather believe that earth is  flat and that NASA is conspiracy? Sounds weird to me...
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Vauxhall

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 11:50:08 AM »
bendy light.
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Vauxhall

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 11:58:23 AM »
Quote from: Rastafarth on October 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
I'm sure this queastin has beed asked many times, but I couldn't find any reasonal answer so I'll ask again. How do you explain the fact that ships clearly disapper over horizon? I guess everyone has already seen it, so you just can't deny it like everything else. And you can't explain it by saying that the ship is too far since it diseppears gradually...

Also I don't understand how you can actually belive in scientific theory like general relativity and yet belive in flat earth.

My last question is what makes you believe spaceflight and mainly satelites are impossible. Because if you suppose earth is sphere, it can be quite simply shown from Newton equations that body (i.e. satellite) can orbit the earth. You can see photos, videos of spaceflights, you can even see satellites with your own eye, yet you rather believe that earth is  flat and that NASA is conspiracy? Sounds weird to me...

show me a satellite without using a teleschope, please. point it out for me in a picture taken by your digital camera.
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Rastafarth

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 12:10:42 PM »
I know enought about general relativity to know that it is not caused by bended light.

You can see the satellite with your eyes even thought you see it only as a dot (just like stars). It is however exactly where it should be. You can find positions of many satellites on the internet for example here: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=25634 . I'm sure ISS for example can be seen with your eyes so wait when it flies above you (or find some other one tha can be seen with your eyes). And if you dont believe me, just buy small telescope, they are not expensive.
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C-Ray

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 12:49:27 PM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on October 20, 2008, 11:58:23 AM
Quote from: Rastafarth on October 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
I'm sure this queastin has beed asked many times, but I couldn't find any reasonal answer so I'll ask again. How do you explain the fact that ships clearly disapper over horizon? I guess everyone has already seen it, so you just can't deny it like everything else. And you can't explain it by saying that the ship is too far since it diseppears gradually...

Also I don't understand how you can actually belive in scientific theory like general relativity and yet belive in flat earth.

My last question is what makes you believe spaceflight and mainly satelites are impossible. Because if you suppose earth is sphere, it can be quite simply shown from Newton equations that body (i.e. satellite) can orbit the earth. You can see photos, videos of spaceflights, you can even see satellites with your own eye, yet you rather believe that earth is  flat and that NASA is conspiracy? Sounds weird to me...

show me a satellite without using a teleschope, please. point it out for me in a picture taken by your digital camera.

Take your camera outside and set it up for a long exposure, the longer the better, you will see streaks moving across the sky.  Those streaks are satellites and the ISS.  You can see this in every long exposure taken of the night sky.  If you've ever looked at one, you have seen it.
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Vauxhall

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 01:04:24 PM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 20, 2008, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: Vauxhall on October 20, 2008, 11:58:23 AM
show me a satellite without using a teleschope, please. point it out for me in a picture taken by your digital camera.

Look at the moon.

UR SO CLEVER MAN
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Dr Matrix

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 01:11:29 PM »
"We all know the Moon is an apparition caused by the focussing of light through the end of a wormhole, which 'orbits' a common centre of rotation with the Sun (which is a projection of a distant star through another wormhole, which causes the spotlighting effect).

This would of course mean that either the Moon landings were faked, or the astronauts unwittingly travelled through a wormhole and landed on the real Moon, which is perhaps from a parallel Universe where the Earth is Round."
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Dr Matrix

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 01:31:58 PM »
I don't know who I was quoting, but he sure seems to know what he's talking about!
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Kingcosmo7

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 12:54:36 PM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on October 20, 2008, 11:58:23 AM
Quote from: Rastafarth on October 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
I'm sure this queastin has beed asked many times, but I couldn't find any reasonal answer so I'll ask again. How do you explain the fact that ships clearly disapper over horizon? I guess everyone has already seen it, so you just can't deny it like everything else. And you can't explain it by saying that the ship is too far since it diseppears gradually...

Also I don't understand how you can actually belive in scientific theory like general relativity and yet belive in flat earth.

My last question is what makes you believe spaceflight and mainly satelites are impossible. Because if you suppose earth is sphere, it can be quite simply shown from Newton equations that body (i.e. satellite) can orbit the earth. You can see photos, videos of spaceflights, you can even see satellites with your own eye, yet you rather believe that earth is  flat and that NASA is conspiracy? Sounds weird to me...

show me a satellite without using a teleschope, please. point it out for me in a picture taken by your digital camera.

Just look up at night, some nights you see stars soaring across the sky, WAY faster then an airplane, and they don't make sound or a tail like a shooting star. and if your REALLY LUCKY or if you just find out where you need to be at what time via the internet, you can see the ISS
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oh so now the moon is in on the conspiracy too?
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Kingcosmo7

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 12:56:35 PM »
Quote from: Kingcosmo7 on October 22, 2008, 12:54:36 PM
Quote from: Vauxhall on October 20, 2008, 11:58:23 AM
Quote from: Rastafarth on October 20, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
I'm sure this queastin has beed asked many times, but I couldn't find any reasonal answer so I'll ask again. How do you explain the fact that ships clearly disapper over horizon? I guess everyone has already seen it, so you just can't deny it like everything else. And you can't explain it by saying that the ship is too far since it diseppears gradually...

Also I don't understand how you can actually belive in scientific theory like general relativity and yet belive in flat earth.

My last question is what makes you believe spaceflight and mainly satelites are impossible. Because if you suppose earth is sphere, it can be quite simply shown from Newton equations that body (i.e. satellite) can orbit the earth. You can see photos, videos of spaceflights, you can even see satellites with your own eye, yet you rather believe that earth is  flat and that NASA is conspiracy? Sounds weird to me...

show me a satellite without using a teleschope, please. point it out for me in a picture taken by your digital camera.

Just look up at night, some nights you see stars soaring across the sky, WAY faster then an airplane, and they don't make sound or a tail like a shooting star. and if your REALLY LUCKY or if you just find out where you need to be at what time via the internet, you can see the ISS

oh that has alread been said :-[ i'm a baaaaaaaaad debater  :'(
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oh so now the moon is in on the conspiracy too?
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2008, 01:09:47 AM »
Quote from: Kingcosmo7 on October 22, 2008, 12:54:36 PM
Just look up at night, some nights you see stars soaring across the sky, WAY faster then an airplane, and they don't make sound or a tail like a shooting star. and if your REALLY LUCKY or if you just find out where you need to be at what time via the internet, you can see the ISS

If they're stars, then they aren't man-made satellites. You lose.
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Winky

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2008, 02:28:48 AM »
So Osama, are you suggesting that actual stars fly across the sky in a few minutes? He was just pointing out that they look like stars, i.e. points of light although they don't twinkle.

If you want to see the ISS, have a look at http://www.heavens-above.com/ You can put in your location and see when it next passes over and is extremely accurate.
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2008, 02:49:29 AM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 23, 2008, 02:26:03 AM
But according to FE the stars, and the moon, are satellites, albeit "natural" satellites, which float above the earth at 3100 miles. If natural satellites can "orbit" the earth, why can't man made ones?

No satellite orbits the Earth.

Quote from: Winky on October 23, 2008, 02:28:48 AM
So Osama, are you suggesting that actual stars fly across the sky in a few minutes?

No.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 03:19:26 AM »
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Galileo the Great

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 11:12:08 AM »
So, as a genuine question, why can the Moon or the Sun float (or rather accelerate with) the FE but man made satellites can't?

Feel free to correct the "accelerate with" bit, but the gist of the question still stands.

EDIT: Actually, scratch that.  Could you answer the original poster's question about ships "disappearing" over the "horizon".  This went off topic somewhere...
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Crumpets

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 11:57:30 AM »
I agree with answering the original question, but I'd be interested to hear the answer to your question there, Galileo.
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2008, 12:14:07 PM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 24, 2008, 12:10:34 PM
Wow, are you denying the moon exists?

No.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2008, 01:22:05 PM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 24, 2008, 12:44:43 PM
How about you just explain why the moon isn't a satellite?

But it is.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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markjo

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2008, 01:54:13 PM »
Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 24, 2008, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: goldstein on October 24, 2008, 12:44:43 PM
How about you just explain why the moon isn't a satellite?

But it is.

I get it.  The moon is a satellite that orbits above the FE.   Of course that still doesn't explain exactly what the moon is orbiting around (supposedly some rather intense gravitational source that apparently does not interact with the FE).
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Kingcosmo7

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2008, 12:23:40 PM »
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oh so now the moon is in on the conspiracy too?
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2008, 12:24:20 PM »
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2008, 09:52:05 AM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 29, 2008, 09:34:44 AM
What ever mechanism allows the moon and stars to float above the earth would also allow man-made objects to float above the earth.

*shrugs*

This has been suggested and refuted many times before. In RET, spacecraft ascend a few hundred kilometres into a low Earth orbit first, and then go up higher if necessary. In FET, you need to go up a few thousand kilometres for your motion to be sustained by Dark Energy. Such a journey requires a lot more fuel to execute in one go.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 10:17:10 AM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 29, 2008, 10:14:08 AM
Well yes. I'd assume somewhere less than 3000 miles, since thats the distance to the moon and stars.

According to FE diagrams, the DEF is at its thinest (due to the "bowshock") towards the perimeter of the disk. A launch from here would require minimum amount of fuel.

And launching from Antarctica or the middle of the Southern Ocean is extremely practical, isn't it?
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 10:28:34 AM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 29, 2008, 10:27:33 AM
No, but that's not what I said is it?

I'd suggest the southern tip of South America, or South Africa, or Australia, or New Zealand. Pretty simple.

The atmoplane is still very thick, even at these locations.
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.
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Dr Matrix

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2008, 10:35:28 AM »
It's all irrelevant anyway since all space launches are conducted according to RET, meaning the launch site is located as close to the equator as possible.  You'd have to convince someone to waste their very expensive rocket in order to test the FET bowshock claim.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 10:39:30 AM by Matrix »
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C-Ray

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 11:11:33 AM »
if it takes so much fuel to launch a rocket into space, how much fuel does it take to keep one of your wonderful stratellites aloft?
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Dr Matrix

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 11:20:26 AM »
They could be solar powered long-endurance UAVs... Those things have been shown to be able to stay in the air for ages without maintenance.  Would still require them being replaced fairly regularly though.
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 11:48:37 AM »
Quote from: goldstein on October 29, 2008, 10:37:14 AM
Really? How thick?

At least a megametre.

Quote from: C-Ray on October 29, 2008, 11:11:33 AM
if it takes so much fuel to launch a rocket into space, how much fuel does it take to keep one of your wonderful stratellites aloft?

None. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy
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Quote from: Ævan on August 11, 2013, 01:18:20 PM
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2008, 11:55:27 AM »
So a stratellite is lighter than our atmosphere  ???

Give me a break.  ::)
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Parsifal

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Re: ships disappearing over horizon
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2008, 11:58:37 AM »
Quote from: ragnarr on October 29, 2008, 11:55:27 AM
So a stratellite is lighter than our atmosphere  ???

Give me a break.  ::)

Most things the size of a stratellite are lighter than the atmoplane.
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