Proof of Conspiracy

The problem with your argument is that you're still denying 40 years of 100% factual real evidence that we've actually in fact gone into space and very far from Earth. You seen the photo of Earth from the Voyager II spacecraft some 4 billion km (or miles) from Earth?

600 years ago the argument for the unobservable was exactly the same.

"You've heard the stories the local preacher told us about witches. You've seen the diseases and famine. You've spoken to the woman who claimed to have seen a witch one time. The church has factual evidence that witches are the downfall of society. How can you not believe the overwhelming evidence?!"

The belief in the unobservable persists to this very day. The belief in the unobservable is called BLIND FAITH. It's an absolutely disgusting belief system which was at the heart of the Dark Ages and persists to this very day in many religious, political, and scientific institutions.

Blind Faith is ignorance. An appeal to an authority is ignorance. I don't care if the belief is in magical sky fairies, Santa Clause, or a Round Earth. Any time one puts his blind faith into something he has not tested and observed for his own self he is exercising a despicable form of ignorance which has corrupted civilization again and again since the dawn of time.

Nazism, Christianity, Satanism, Hinduism, Spiritualism: It's all the same. It's all based on blind faith of the unobservable. Blind faith in the unobservable is precisely what Globularists try and push on us every day.

Until you actually clime aboard a space shuttle and go into space, you're not going to wake up to the incredibly overwhelming evidence that is around you.

I look around for evidence every day. All evidence I see suggests that the earth exists as a plane.

Tom, you have this thing down pat....I have to apologize for my absence.  I know I started this argument w/ Thre3dee & Fpot.  And I should have manned up and finished it.  But you draw on infinitely more knowledge and expertise than I can possibly bring to the table....

I know that you don't need any praise, but these truths that you are presenting are right on....

The thing that these non-believers need to understand---and they already know this if they will just allow themselves---is that the truth is always hard to swallow.  And most of the time it doesn't feel good at first.  But once it is digested, it is the most beautiful thing in the world....It is the lies that go down so smoothly and feel so good in the beginning....And they keep feeling good until you realize that you've been had....

Thank you Mr. Bishop

Quote

Blind Faith is ignorance. An appeal to an authority is ignorance. I don't care if the belief is in magical sky fairies, Santa Clause, or a Round Earth. Any time one puts his blind faith into something he has not tested and observed for his own self, he is exercising a despicable form of ignorance which has corrupted civilization again and again since the dawn of time.

So you have been to the Ice wall Bish? You have photos or film of it I presume. I want to know about the 'sky mirror', how you know light is bendy. Who builds all these stratolites? How can a spotlight moon have phases, or the rising/setting sun light the underneath of clouds. Why hasn't a single guard of the ice wall ever,ever blown the whistle on this conspiracy? Why has nobody ever been able to produce a proper map of the flat earth? What is pushing the Earth ever upwards?

I can't wait to see the answers and proof of all this, because after all, someone who "puts his blind faith into something he has not tested and observed for his own self, [he] is exercising a despicable form of ignorance which has corrupted civilization again and again since the dawn of time.]"

So you have been to the Ice wall Bish? You have photos or film of it I presume.

I don't believe in a 40,000 foot tall Ice Wall at the edges of the earth. There are other models which do not invoke an Ice Wall, where the atmosphere can stay on a finite accelerating earth without leaking into space (Guy Lussac's Law).

What exists at the extremities of our earth is presently unknown.

I want to know about the 'sky mirror',

I don't believe in a sky mirror. The existence of any reflecting bodies or entities in the sky is presently unknown.

how you know light is bendy.

Knowing that the earth is flat, the sun can only appear to intersect with the earth's surface if its light is bending upwards. The sunset is a direct observation of bending light.

When the sun passes by a star the star's light bends and warps as the sun passes by. This is further evidence and a direct observation that the sun affects the direction of photons.

Who builds all these stratolites?

I've never heard of a "stratolite".

How can a spotlight moon have phases,

The moon is changing it's altitude in relation to the sun, causing the phases. The mechanism which causes the moon to move in this fashion is presently unknown.

Why hasn't a single guard of the ice wall ever,ever blown the whistle on this conspiracy?

I don't believe in the existence of any Ice Wall guards.

Why has nobody ever been able to produce a proper map of the flat earth?

The true layout of the earth is presently unknown. Right now there are a couple hypothetical maps going around.

What is pushing the Earth ever upwards?

The mechanism is presently unknown, but a placeholder title of "Dark Energy" has been given to the mechanism.

I can't wait to see the answers and proof of all this, because after all, someone who "puts his blind faith into something he has not tested and observed for his own self, [he] is exercising a despicable form of ignorance which has corrupted civilization again and again since the dawn of time."

I don't have answers to unobservable mechanism or unobservable entities. I don't believe in any unobservable mechanisms or entities. I will happily tell you that the specific answers you are seeking are currently unknown to human knowledge. I do not put my faith into hypotheticals and unobservables. I'm not a spiritualist.

I only believe in what I can see and test for myself. When I step off the edge of a chair and go into free fall I can see the earth physically accelerate upwards towards me. I don't see tiny undetectable "graviton" particles pulling me towards the surface. I just see an upwardly accelerating earth. That's a direct observation and test for the mechanism which keeps us pinned to the earth's surface. Science has yet to come up with a test for the hypothetical existence of "graviton particles".

Samuel Birley Rowbotham's Zetitic Philosophy is an exercise in skepticism to come to the absolute truth of a matter. It's a form of Empiricism in which all possibilities are assessed, facts collected, where the conclusion arrived at is essentially a quotient; which, if the details are correctly worked, must of necessity be true, and beyond the reach or power of contradiction. It's a philosophy where all "hypothesis" is thrown out the window. Only possibilities which can be demonstrated, tested, and peer reviewed are considered.

A Zetetic is a free-thinker; one whose views are based on logic and reason independent of authority and blind faith.

Rowbotham has an excellent chapter on the subject of Zeteticism here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

First of all, thanks! For replying and addressing each point. At least by doing that we are having a proper discussion.

I had thought all FErs believed in the ice wall, but I have had a look at your link. I understand where you are coming from even though I disagree. Pressure tries to equalise, therefore out atmosphere would rush away.

Ditto sky mirror. I thought all FErs believed in that. You don't, good call as it would appear highly suspect and 'convenient'!!

Bendy light. You assume that earth is flat and therefore come up with BL as a solution. OK, that is a theory, but in science you need to be able to test and retest to validate a theory. Right now you appear to be saying here is a theory of bendy light which proves flat earth can work. We can prove the theory because the Earth is flat! Running round in circles there mate.

The moons phases. Stand in a dark room with a torch shining towards you and hold out a tennis ball at arms length. Rotate slowly and you can see the ball lit in phases in exactly the same way as the moon is. This can be demonstrated, is simple, and matches visible behaviour of the moon. You propose an unknown mechanism of altitude changes (leaving aside laser distancing of the moon) and even accepting an unknown mechanism for the changes,  fail to see how you can produce the phases we see. I therefore posit that the conventional moon orbits the earth theory the much simpler explanation.

Ice guards... OK

Maps. Why is the true layout unknown? We have GPS (forget sats vs strats for a moment!), we have lots of technology that enables us to map the world. We need to be able to find our way from place to place and seem to be able to fly say London to Sydney without getting lost. So why cant we make a simple map?

'Dark Energy'. Why propose this? If you use gravitational equations, you can calculate how far a ball will go and its trajectory when thrown. Aha you say, but this is true for eart upwards theory. Yes, granted, but using those same equations, you can predict when sattelites will pass over head, the movement of the moons of other planets, the path of comets etc. All down to gravitational theory. So, one set of equations can show how everything in the heavens move like clockwork, predictably time after time, or we can accept that 'something' unseen, untested and possibly unknowable pushes the whole planet for no readily apparent reason!

So you can't 'see' gravity and therefore you think it must be the earth rushing up keeping you pinned to it...ok, so what keeps the atmosphere on venus, mars etc? Love? Nope, the same gravity that keeps us down.

What about comet shoemaker-levy that struck jupiter? The entire path of the comet was calculated and a date and time for impact into Jupiter was calculated using orbital mechanics - gravity. Wow, lo and behold it hit. Perhaps a lucky guess?

Bendy light. You assume that earth is flat and therefore come up with BL as a solution. OK, that is a theory, but in science you need to be able to test and retest to validate a theory. Right now you appear to be saying here is a theory of bendy light which proves flat earth can work. We can prove the theory because the Earth is flat! Running round in circles there mate.

Circular logic, quite ironically.

What is also ironic is the way you mention the dark ages and the way they believed in witches. You know what else they believed in the dark ages? That the world was flat.

What would be hilarious is to take one of these morons on a trip on a space shuttle and watch them furrow their brows as they finally realise that the world is round. Actually, all you'd need to do is put them on a sailing ship and travel in a straight line long enough before they'd get to the same place. And no-one has made mention of being in a plane and _seeing_ the curvature of the earth with their own eyes. Or are planes part of the NASA god conspiracy as well.

Jesus christ, I can't believe there are people still this stupid in the civilised world :/

Quote from: Winky on October 22, 2008, 01:30:07 AM

Bendy light. You assume that earth is flat and therefore come up with BL as a solution. OK, that is a theory, but in science you need to be able to test and retest to validate a theory. Right now you appear to be saying here is a theory of bendy light which proves flat earth can work. We can prove the theory because the Earth is flat! Running round in circles there mate.

Circular logic, quite ironically.

What is also ironic is the way you mention the dark ages and the way they believed in witches. You know what else they believed in the dark ages? That the world was flat.

What would be hilarious is to take one of these morons on a trip on a space shuttle and watch them furrow their brows as they finally realise that the world is round. Actually, all you'd need to do is put them on a sailing ship and travel in a straight line long enough before they'd get to the same place. And no-one has made mention of being in a plane and _seeing_ the curvature of the earth with their own eyes. Or are planes part of the NASA god conspiracy as well.

Jesus christ, I can't believe there are people still this stupid in the civilised world :/

Hint: there aren't. 

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how you know light is bendy.

Knowing that the earth is flat, the sun can only appear to intersect with the earth's surface if its light is bending upwards. The sunset is a direct observation of bending light.

So you are saying that Rowbothem's theories on the Sun's "Projection" and persective are wrong, and the earth does indeed "appear" to be curved.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know.

A Zetetic is a free-thinker; one whose views are based on logic and reason independent of authority and blind faith.

Someone who looks out of the window, observes that the earth appears to be flat, and then bases all thinking and reasoning around that one inconclusive observation (bendy light, celestial gears, spotlights, etc) is certainly not what I'd call a "free thinker".

Nazism, Christianity, Satanism, Hinduism, Spiritualism: It's all the same. It's all based on blind faith of the unobservable. Blind faith in the unobservable is precisely what Globularists try and push on us every day.

that made me speechless

How do you explain the GPS system?

The GPS system is totally dependant on ORBITAL motion to coordinate the other 24-32 satellites and relay position information. Unless you don't believe in GPS.

Also, how to do you explain the satellites in the first place? We can't go to space right? How do you explain their 26,000km orbital radius (over twice the diameter of the Earth)? How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people using GPS on a daily basis.

fpot, you do realise how useless this is right? The problem with these people is they create an answer and then make up incredibly stupid solutions to problems without actually doing any scientific studies at all, then completely believe in their solutions despite incredibly large amounts of factual evidence completely explaining every phenomenon with accuracy and consistency. They are blinded by their own ignorance to world in front of their eyes.

So, Flat Earthers, do you solumnly and wholy believe that 99% of the world's population including the goverments (which fund NASA and other space agencies) is actually part of a massive, incredibly expensive (they spend hundreds of millions every space shuttle mission) hoax to try and persuade you 3000-4000 ignorant, blind and incredibly stupid people that the Earth is round when the rest of the world has experienced the curvature of the Earth in their daily lives.

Go to a beach and you'll see the curvature of the Earth. In fact, the furthest a person can actually see at sea level is roughly 4km due to the curvature (at an eye height of 1.6m on average).

Have a look at this picture and then read its quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shiphorp.jpg

When a ship is at the horizon its lower part is invisible due to Earth's curvature. This was one of the first arguments favoring a round-earth model.

Also (I've quoted some important phrases),

As determined by modern instruments, a sphere approximates the earth's shape to within one part in 300. An oblate ellipsoid with a flattening of 1/300 approximates the earth exceedingly well. See Figure of the Earth.

...

As the science of geodesy measured Earth more accurately, the shape of the geoid was first found not to be a perfect sphere but to approximate an oblate spheroid, a specific type of ellipsoid. More recent measurements have measured the geoid to unprecedented accuracy, revealing mass concentrations beneath Earth's surface.

Note the extensive use of the word, MEASURED. Unlike Flat Earthers™, the rest of the world uses tools and instruments to verify that indeed we are standing on a spherical Earth (excepting deformations such as mountains and oceans).

I myself have SEEN the curvature of the Earth in a plane trip I had a while ago. Hell, I even saw it at the beach north of Brisbane a few weeks ago. Am I ignorant to the fact that I just saw the curvature of the horizon with my own eyes?

Not only did some people start hypothesising the round Earth model in favour of clear evidence, people PROVED it long ago. We use non-subjective, non-human TOOLS to MEASURE our observations. They returned the same results as the observations led us to believe.

Just found this too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7540427.stm

Oh and I just realised something else. If the Earth is accelerating up at 9.8m/s to 'simulate' gravity then it only takes 354.03 days to reach the speed of light... In other words no matter how old FEs think the Earth is, the Earth would still be travelling thousands of times the speed of light. Why do I still see everything? And how would you explain time dilation due to our speed? We have experienced time dilation on atomic clocks in lower gravity situations such as on satellites.

Oh and I just realised something else. If the Earth is accelerating up at 9.8m/s to 'simulate' gravity then it only takes 354.03 days to reach the speed of light... In other words no matter how old FEs think the Earth is, the Earth would still be travelling thousands of times the speed of light. Why do I still see everything? And how would you explain time dilation due to our speed? We have experienced time dilation on atomic clocks in lower gravity situations such as on satellites.

explained by einstein. it is in fact possible to accelerate nonstop without reaching c.

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So you have been to the Ice wall Bish? You have photos or film of it I presume.

I don't believe in a 40,000 foot tall Ice Wall at the edges of the earth. There are other models which do not invoke an Ice Wall, where the atmosphere can stay on a finite accelerating earth without leaking into space (Guy Lussac's Law).

What exists at the extremities of our earth is presently unknown.

Quote

I want to know about the 'sky mirror',

I don't believe in a sky mirror. The existence of any reflecting bodies or entities in the sky is presently unknown.

Quote

how you know light is bendy.

Knowing that the earth is flat, the sun can only appear to intersect with the earth's surface if its light is bending upwards. The sunset is a direct observation of bending light.

When the sun passes by a star the star's light bends and warps as the sun passes by. This is further evidence and a direct observation that the sun affects the direction of photons.

Quote

Who builds all these stratolites?

I've never heard of a "stratolite".

Quote

How can a spotlight moon have phases,

The moon is changing it's altitude in relation to the sun, causing the phases. The mechanism which causes the moon to move in this fashion is presently unknown.

Quote

Why hasn't a single guard of the ice wall ever,ever blown the whistle on this conspiracy?

I don't believe in the existence of any Ice Wall guards.

Quote

Why has nobody ever been able to produce a proper map of the flat earth?

The true layout of the earth is presently unknown. Right now there are a couple hypothetical maps going around.

Quote

What is pushing the Earth ever upwards?

The mechanism is presently unknown, but a placeholder title of "Dark Energy" has been given to the mechanism.

Quote

I can't wait to see the answers and proof of all this, because after all, someone who "puts his blind faith into something he has not tested and observed for his own self, [he] is exercising a despicable form of ignorance which has corrupted civilization again and again since the dawn of time."

I don't have answers to unobservable mechanism or unobservable entities. I don't believe in any unobservable mechanisms or entities. I will happily tell you that the specific answers you are seeking are currently unknown to human knowledge. I do not put my faith into hypotheticals and unobservables. I'm not a spiritualist.

I only believe in what I can see and test for myself. When I step off the edge of a chair and go into free fall I can see the earth physically accelerate upwards towards me. I don't see tiny undetectable "graviton" particles pulling me towards the surface. I just see an upwardly accelerating earth. That's a direct observation and test for the mechanism which keeps us pinned to the earth's surface. Science has yet to come up with a test for the hypothetical existence of "graviton particles".

Samuel Birley Rowbotham's Zetitic Philosophy is an exercise in skepticism to come to the absolute truth of a matter. It's a form of Empiricism in which all possibilities are assessed, facts collected, where the conclusion arrived at is essentially a quotient; which, if the details are correctly worked, must of necessity be true, and beyond the reach or power of contradiction. It's a philosophy where all "hypothesis" is thrown out the window. Only possibilities which can be demonstrated, tested, and peer reviewed are considered.

A Zetetic is a free-thinker; one whose views are based on logic and reason independent of authority and blind faith.

Rowbotham has an excellent chapter on the subject of Zeteticism here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

How does this disprove a Flat Earth?

Quote

so far RE'ers (to my knowlage) are the only ones with even a shred of evidence to show for our theory....

I agree. RE'ers have yet to produce a shred of evidence demonstrating that NASA can do the things RE'ers claim they can do.

....you weren't agreeing with this. He said that RE are the only ones with evidence, and you said that RE doesn't.

The burden of proof is on the RE'ers because they're the ones making the claim that NASA can land men on the moon, send robots to mars, and send probes to explore the solar system. We've never claimed any of that stuff. They made the claim, so the burden is on them to prove it.

Its the REer's responsibility to prove their outlandish sci-fi claims.

Seriously? Do I have to bring up elephants yet again? What about the ice walls?

I guess you & your buddy Fpot still believe in the tooth fairy too.  It's okay if it makes you feel secure at night....

Tooth fairy?! Bendy light? Elephants? Turtles?...

That is the age old question thre3dee.  What it is I do not know w/out going into religion.  I could tell you what my Bible tells me it is.  But, suffice is to say that it is there.  There is something that we cannot and will not get past high up there. 

And I know that sounds vague.  But in my humble opinion it is a much simpler truth than all the fascinating & exciting words NASA comes up with to perpetuate the lie to end all lies....

But I am positively sure we could exchange blows like this for hours & days on end....You will probably call me names and talk about how simple I might be for drawing these ridiculous conclusions.  And I most definitely will hurt your feelings and show you how gullible you most certainly are for believing in your NASA religion....

The Bible, as far as I'm aware, does not say that the Earth is flat. I believe that some of the imagery used in the Bible depicts a flat world without explicitly saying it's flat.

Even if the Bible does say that it's flat, the Bible also says that snakes can talk. Is this a factual book? I doubt it.

I'm not a Christian (as you've probably gathered), though I do believe the Bible contains some good morals about how to live life, and how to get on with other humans. I also believe that the Bible was written by many different people, many years after the supposed events, and has since been translated into many different languages.

However, as it's been written by many different people, there are varying degrees of fiction and fact. Using the Bible as proof is like using Wikipedia as proof. It's a source provided by many different anonymous people.

What exists at the extremities of our earth is presently unknown.

Then go and find what is unknown and then come back.

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Why has nobody ever been able to produce a proper map of the flat earth?

The true layout of the earth is presently unknown. Right now there are a couple hypothetical maps going around.

Then find out. Come back later.

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What is pushing the Earth ever upwards?

The mechanism is presently unknown, but a placeholder title of "Dark Energy" has been given to the mechanism.

Find out. Come back later.

I live on the west coast, how do you explain Tom, that I can fly to London, either over the Pacific and Russia, or over The U.S. and the Atlantic...

I live on the west coast, how do you explain Tom, that I can fly to London, either over the Pacific and Russia, or over The U.S. and the Atlantic...

I take it you have done this yourself, and come up with a foolproof way of telling if you are flying over the atlantic or pacific oceans? Or is this just another thought experiment?

The burden of proof is on the RE'ers because they're the ones making the claim that NASA can land men on the moon, send robots to mars, and send probes to explore the solar system. We've never claimed any of that stuff. They made the claim, so the burden is on them to prove it.

Its the REer's responsibility to prove their outlandish sci-fi claims.

Wrong.

Its up to you now. NASA have shown live images for a start. Then there is GPS. Then there is the old line of sight issue etc etc...

Now us REers have shown you what we know now its your turn to show us actual images from space of this supposed flat earth bollocks.

i have followed this forum for months now with interest and have not seen 1 shred of evidence or proof from you other than utter bollocks to support your claim. Its the same as religion here. You cant prove a damn thing so harp on about its for the other side to prove.

For once you prove it. You show us live images, you show us non photoshopped pics as i can tell the difference.

I wait with baited breath.....oh and the obvious excuses from you lot telling us that you want us to prove it first. No more cop outs. Just prove it.

I live on the west coast, how do you explain Tom, that I can fly to London, either over the Pacific and Russia, or over The U.S. and the Atlantic...

Why can't you do that in the Flat Earth model? 

Wrong.

Its up to you now. NASA have shown live images for a start. Then there is GPS. Then there is the old line of sight issue etc etc...

Now us REers have shown you what we know now its your turn to show us actual images from space of this supposed flat earth bollocks.

i have followed this forum for months now with interest and have not seen 1 shred of evidence or proof from you other than utter bollocks to support your claim. Its the same as religion here. You cant prove a damn thing so harp on about its for the other side to prove.

Whoa whoa whoa. Globularism is the religion here. We're the skeptics. We're the ones promoting the observable and apparent.

You guys seem to be trying to claim certain unobservable things beyond human experience. You're the ones who believe things on blind faith with no further research or question. You're the ones making blind appeals to authority left and right. That definitely sounds like a religion to me.

When you claim that something unobservable exists, the burden is on you to prove it. When a religion claims the existence of an unobservable fairy in the sky the burden is on them to prove it. The burden isn't on anyone else to disprove it. The burden is on them alone to prove it.

So where's your proof that the earth is a globe? Where's your proof that NASA can do all the things in space it claims to do? Where's your proof that NASA has sent men to the moon and robots to mars?

Quote from: HIPPO on October 25, 2008, 08:17:29 AM

I live on the west coast, how do you explain Tom, that I can fly to London, either over the Pacific and Russia, or over The U.S. and the Atlantic...

Why can't you do that in the Flat Earth model? 

Quote

Wrong.

Its up to you now. NASA have shown live images for a start. Then there is GPS. Then there is the old line of sight issue etc etc...

Now us REers have shown you what we know now its your turn to show us actual images from space of this supposed flat earth bollocks.

i have followed this forum for months now with interest and have not seen 1 shred of evidence or proof from you other than utter bollocks to support your claim. Its the same as religion here. You cant prove a damn thing so harp on about its for the other side to prove.

Whoa whoa whoa. Globularism is the religion here. We're the skeptics. We're the ones promoting the observable and apparent.

You guys seem to be trying to claim certain unobservable things beyond human experience. You're the ones who believe things on blind faith with no further research or question. You're the ones making blind appeals to authority left and right. That definitely sounds like a religion to me.

When you claim that something unobservable exists, the burden is on you to prove it. When a religion claims the existence of an unobservable fairy int he sky the burden is on them to prove it. The burden isn't on anyone else to disprove it. The burden is on them alone to prove it.

So where's your proof that the earth is a globe? Where's your proof that NASA can do all the things in space it claims to do? Where's your proof that NASA has sent men to the moon and robots to mars?

I'm asking you. My mind is open imo so i want you to prove to me the earth is flat.

To many posts here just reverse the question. Why not just answer is with solid proof.

I'm asking you. My mind is open imo so i want you to prove to me the earth is flat.

Hu,am experience tells us that the earth exists as a plane.

To many posts here just reverse the question. Why not just answer is with solid proof.

It's solid enough for me. The pretense from human experience is that the earth exists as a plane.

The burden is on anyone else who thinks that the earth exists as something else beyond human experience.

Quote

I'm asking you. My mind is open imo so i want you to prove to me the earth is flat.

Just look out your window if you want to see a flat earth.

I look out to sea and see the curvature of the earth. Oh i also see the curvature within my work.....

Show me the flat earth.

Quote

I'm asking you. My mind is open imo so i want you to prove to me the earth is flat.

Just look out your window if you want to see a flat earth.

Quote

To many posts here just reverse the question. Why not just answer is with solid proof.

It's solid enough for me. The pretense from human experience is that the earth exists as a plane.

The burden is on anyone else who thinks that the earth exists as something else beyond human experience.

From the movement and position of the heavens (at different times and at different locations), modern human experience suggests that the earth exists as a rotating globe.

Moreover, basic human reasoning is advanced enough to know that the "window test" is not reliable test; Only a lesser being could make such a mistake.

The burden of proof is on FEers to show:
   -The "window test" is a reliable test.
   -The heavens' spherical properties are an optical illusion.

Show me the flat earth.

Just look out your window if you want to see a flat earth.

From the movement and position of the heavens (at different times and at different locations), modern human experience suggests that the earth exists as a rotating globe.

Proof? When I observe the heavens it just seems like a flat sheet suspended overhead, stretching into the horizon.

Moreover, basic human reasoning is advanced enough to know that the "window test" is not reliable test; Only a lesser being could make such a mistake.

The window tests proves that by pretense the earth is a plane.

Proof? When I observe the heavens it just seems like a flat sheet suspended overhead, stretching into the horizon.

ok explain to me when im up in the air at work i see the curve of the earth?

ok explain to me when im up in the air at work i see the curve of the earth?

You don't. You're either imagining things or were looking out of a bubble window.

I've been on many international flights and I've never seen the curvature of the earth. The earth is just flat for as far as the eye can see.

TheEngineer, a pilot who posts on this forum, tells us that the horizon of the earth is not curved from the air.

Quote:

"I believe I said that I put myself through college working for an airline, thus having access to free flights around the world.  I also worked for a private FBO, in which the owner owned a Cessna Citation.  I am also a licensed pilot.  Not once, during any of the hundreds if not thousands of flights I've been on, have I ever witnessed the curvature of the Earth."

Quote from: neo6776 on October 25, 2008, 12:45:16 PM

ok explain to me when im up in the air at work i see the curve of the earth?

You dont.

I've been on many international flights and I've never seen the curvature of the earth. The earth is just flat for as far as the eye can see.

TheEngineer, a pilot who posts on this forum, tells us that the horizon of the earth is not curved from the air.

Quote:

"I believe I said that I put myself through college working for an airline, thus having access to free flights around the world.  I also worked for a private FBO, in which the owner owned a Cessna Citation.  I am also a licensed pilot.  Not once, during any of the hundreds if not thousands of flights I've been on, have I ever witnessed the curvature of the Earth."

It is indeed.

He clearly isn't a pilot as every pilot on the planet will disagree with him.

I see it almost everyday lol

You can see the same in the water. Further the boat goes the bottom disappears and you see the top till it vanishes. Same can be seen through a pair of binoculars for goodness sake. What you are telling me is 99.9999999% of the population of this planet are wrong?

What you are telling me is 99.9999999% of the population of this planet are wrong?

And what is so difficult to believe about that?