I have a theory

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MadDogX

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2008, 01:27:31 AM »
Indeed evidence for space flight is overwhelming, while "evidence" for the conspiracy is usually based on conjecture and claims of fakery.

Space organisations launch craft regularly and provide a constant stream of images and videos. Private space companies are starting to do the same. Amateur ballonists have sent photographic equipment up to heights of around 30km, from which the curvature of the Earth is clearly visible.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:49:52 AM by MadDogX »
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I want an Orion slave woman :(
Okay, I admit it.  The earth isn't flat.

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tikiman

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2008, 01:39:07 AM »
Indeed evidence for space flight is overwhelming, while "evidence" for the conspiracy is usually based on conjecture and claims of fakery.

Space organisations launch craft regularly and provide a constant stream of images and videos. Private space companies are starting to do the same. Amateur ballonists have sent photographic equipment up to heights of 30km, from which the curvature of the Earth is clearly visible.

Sorry but I don't think that is creative enough for Tom Bishop. Can you change it a little so that the cameras for the show were provided by the government and later changed by computer imaging and that the 'private' crafts were actually CIA owned an operated? He might go along with it then.
Wow! Look! I can do the conspiracy thing too! My God the government is devious arn't they? I've heard that they actually operate this website to cover up what is really going on!

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:40:58 AM by tikiman »

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AmateurAstronomer

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2008, 03:30:14 AM »
We don't have any evidence for the Conspiracy either. Yet your theory relies on it.

What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter straight up at 7 miles per second (third stage of the Saturn V), and that NASA can do the impossible on a daily basis, explore the cosmos, and constantly wow the nation by landing a man on the moon and sending robots to mars; or is the simplest explanation that they really can't do all of that stuff?

What about computers Tom? Scientists claimed to have made a never before seen punch card fed machine that could do complex mathematics in minutes that would take a room full of human calculators years or more. Then they claimed it was possible to have direct input into those machines, making punchcards unnecessary. Then then claimed they could use never before seen transistors to make the vacuum tubes of the old system unnecessary. Then they claimed they could condense all the transistors, diodes, etc into smaller never before seen integrated circuits. Then they claimed they could condense even more parts into never before seen micro-processors. Then they claimed they could make those integrated circuits and micro-processors smaller, and smaller,  and smaller still, till you get to our current point of reference where you could fit the txt equivalent of 16 million 300 page books on a $50 8gb memory stick.

If you looked at computers the same way you look at aeronautics you'd be forced to say that looks farcical as well. How could they make those advances? A computer scientist in the 1940's shown a quarter sized stick and told it had 16 million books on it would say "nonsense". The simplest explanation is that they really couldn't do all of that stuff. You're not inclined to open up your hard drive to see if there's a conspiracy inside though are you? You live in our age and take those advances as signs of progress.

The point I'm getting at is researching, or even just casually looking up info, on the advances of computer tech is as easy as researching/looking up info on aeronautics. You always cite the Saturn V rocket accelerating 100 tons of matter straight up at 7 miles per second as an impossibility. Why, the 100 tons part? Is 100 tons just too heavy to lift in your opinion? Newtons third law says with sufficient thrust you can lift any mass, and accelerate it to almost any speed. Did you research the thrust capabilities of the Saturn V before choosing it as your poster child? Can you cite where any stage of it's engines would be insufficient to move the mass of the rocket to those speeds? If you can't cite any obvious flaws with the math, then why do you use this example so often?

Likewise, the rest of your post, where you look at all that the various space agencies have accomplished, and say "how could this technology have advanced to this stage?" just makes apparent you're not keeping up with the current tech. I'm not going to cite every experiment/project/mission done by every space agency just to prove their validity. Cite some examples you have problems with. Examples where you feel the math doesn't add up. I, and others most likely, will offer our insights.

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You didn't say anything about observable.  You just wanted the simplest explanation.

One group is suggesting the simplest and most easily observable claim, and another group the unobservable and most complex claim. With which group should the burden of proof lay?

The answer is that the burden is on you guys is to prove these things to us. You're the one making the claim. We're not. The simplest explanation is that NASA really can't do all of that stuff.

In a discussion on the existence of ghosts should the burden of proof be on the group mumbling "just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist," or should the burden of proof be on everyone else to prove that ghosts *don't* exist?

A company called Mollar International claims to have invented a flying car with safety comparable to a land vehicle, an outstanding performance of a 400 mile range, and sophisticated never before seen computer control. They claim that the Sky Car is ready to be mass produced if only they got a few more big investments. They've released a few videos of it hovering a short distance off the ground in test flights. Should the burden of proof be on the Moller proponents who are absolutely certain that all of Moller's claims are true, or should the burden of proof be on everyone else to prove that Moller's claims are *not* true?

So where's your proof for all of these sci-fi claims of yours?

First off, your link, it goes nowhere...

Second off, I don't see how NASA is the same as the flying car scam, or the water car scam, or the free energy generator scam. I don't see how it's the guy who believes in ghost and talks about it at parties either.

There's too much to the fields of aeronautics and space exploration for us to be expected to lay it all at your feet for inspection. Give us solid examples that you dispute and we'll defend those.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 03:47:35 AM by AmateurAstronomer »
Reality becomes apparent to the patient observer. Or you can learn a thing or two if you're in a hurry.

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tikiman

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2008, 08:09:09 AM »

First off, your link, it goes nowhere...

Second off, I don't see how NASA is the same as the flying car scam, or the water car scam, or the free energy generator scam. I don't see how it's the guy who believes in ghost and talks about it at parties either.

There's too much to the fields of aeronautics and space exploration for us to be expected to lay it all at your feet for inspection. Give us solid examples that you dispute and we'll defend those.

There is a good reason why the flying car thing never 'took off'. It's because no matter how good they are, when they break down on the way to work you can't just pull over to the shoulder and coast to a stop. You drop. To find someone to fund this kind of loosing proposition would be like deciding to bring back the Pinto!

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 08:18:21 AM by tikiman »

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tikiman

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2008, 12:27:41 AM »
Has Tom Bishop left the building?


Re: I have a theory
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2008, 02:30:43 AM »
Indeed. He got too close to the window

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gts4tw

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2008, 05:35:46 AM »
Tom Bishop = Saddam Hussein

Wow.... people are actually having an argument with a figment of someone elses imagination. This forum is so comical. I always wonder how many of the newbie REers like me actually read the old threads....
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 05:38:14 AM by gts4tw »

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markjo

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2008, 05:59:27 AM »
Tom Bishop = Saddam Hussein

Wow.... people are actually having an argument with a figment of someone elses imagination. This forum is so comical. I always wonder how many of the newbie REers like me actually read the old threads....

As I recall, Thomas Bishop was a Saddam Hussein alt, not Tom Bishop.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2008, 06:18:20 AM »
!= http://www.moller.com/

Also, simplest explanation is RE.  ::)
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2008, 01:38:18 PM »
Tom Bishop = Saddam Hussein

Wow.... people are actually having an argument with a figment of someone elses imagination. This forum is so comical. I always wonder how many of the newbie REers like me actually read the old threads....

For some reason there's something about Tom which means that even though everyone knows he's a troll that's not worth anyone's time - and his whole argument rests on the fact that no-one can really prove anything to him, and if they do it's just a new aspect of FET - people still feel compelled to have a go at breaking him anyway, knowing it will never work

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tikiman

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2008, 05:01:48 AM »
Well, this entire site seems to be aimed at;
1. Real FE'rs that will not listen to anything.
2. RE'rs trying to convice those who will not listen.
3. People who get Lolz out of noobs who are not aware of what is going on.
4. Friends just hanging out talking about mindless shit.

There doesn't seem to be a basis for an enlightened or serious conversation to continue in the advertised claims of this site.

I find the whole thing rather sad. This is undoubtedly one of the worst forums I have seen on the net to date.
I'm gone.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2008, 11:59:17 AM »
Tom Bishop = Saddam Hussein

Wow.... people are actually having an argument with a figment of someone elses imagination. This forum is so comical. I always wonder how many of the newbie REers like me actually read the old threads....

You can tell this from old threads?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2008, 12:53:17 PM »
I find the whole thing rather sad. This is undoubtedly one of the worst forums I have seen on the net to date.
I'm gone.

Well, I can't say we'll miss you.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2008, 09:19:56 PM »


The only valid method is proof by contradiction:
1. Assume the Earth is round
2. We know X to be true
3. A round Earth cannot explain X
4. Therefore the Earth is not round

Once you do that, then you can start talking about all of this UA nonsense and whatnot.


I'm still waiting for an FEer to try and answer that one.
You think that the massive evidence on the opposing side is negated due to your assumption that you must be correct due to your evidence. poor deductive reasoning.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: I have a theory
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2008, 09:37:15 PM »
I'm still waiting for an FEer to try and answer that one.

Read Earth Not a Globe.

Re: I have a theory
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2008, 06:36:03 AM »
Read Earth Not a Globe.

I did.  It wasn't very good, and really doesn't give any answers to his questions.  Many of the observations that he makes are flawed, so it calls into doubt the entire book.  Of course, there is that chapter at the end that go talking about how regardless of what we observe, the bible says that the Earth is flat, and that is the ultimate evidence.