Reasons for believing in FE?

Those cables expand when they reach the ocean floor due to geothermal energy.

It was much funnier when you didnt make it so obvious that you are trolling.

1. For thousands of years man believed in a flat earth. It is a logical assumption if you have no other knowlege

Irony.
In any case, many early thinkers found proofs of RE and RE became the accepted view. They did have other knowledge. Are you admitting that FE is a valid thought only if your ignorant?

2. We do have evidence with perspective, bendy light, gears theory and more

Look up evidence. Hell, those don't even qualify for theory.

3. It is illogical for you to say we have no logic
 

I didn't say you did not have logic. (Even If I thought it) I merely pointed out, if you were logical in your approach, you would have evidence. Whether you have evidence or not, is not something I asserted.

Quote from: ragnarr on October 10, 2008, 07:58:40 AM

These cables were run assuming round earth distances.  If the earth was flat, almost every run would have been much longer.

Uhm, in fact almost all of those distances would remain unchanged... Nice try though

I don't think so.  Assuming the earth is a sphere, to map a 3 dimensional surface onto 2 dimensions will cause distortions.  I think this explains it well:

When changing from a globe to a flat map, distortions will occur. The globe shows four features accurately: shape, size, distance, and direction. At the most, a flat world map can only keep one of these features accurate, with the other three features being distorted.

http://www.worldmapsonline.com/LESSON-PLANS/6-world-projections-distance-north-pole-world-map-lesson-5.htm

So considering those cables were run assuming the earth was a sphere, and not flat.  Almost all of those distances would have been calculated inaccurately if the earth actually was flat. With the map Tom provided, most of the cable runs over the pacific ocean would have been way off.  Flat maps are only accurate if they are of a limited area of the earths surface.

The only ones that would have changed in distance are those in the southern/outer hemiplane. "Almost every run" is not in the southern/outer hemiplane.

I count 1 attempt to answer the OP...

I don't think they have anything else.  Other than, it looks flat up close.  Which as you already stated, is flawed.

Exactly.

Bump for legitimate reply.

Since, continual bumps got no legitimate response to the OP in this thread, I decided to make a thread that couldn't be as easily stereotyped and cast aside.

In court, an objective observer such as an arbitrator, mediator, or judge takes on the active listening role as both sides present their evidence and conclusions (Burden of Proof and Burden of Refutation so to speak).

In any case, RE'ers have countless threads explaining the reasons why they believe in RE and not FE. For instance, one small reason I believe in RE because I have seen NASA's images of earth from space, and I have no reason to think they are not legitimate. FE'ers have failed to present any reasons why they believe in FE, except maybe Tom who constantly cites Rowbotham and also constantly fails to back up Rowbotham's theories. The most recent example of this is here.

A. Point 1: It is illogical to arrive at a conclusion without evidence to support the conclusion.
Point 2: You have come to a conclusion of a Flat Earth.
Point 3: If you use logic and reasoning you must have evidence.

I can see no reason why such evidence can't readily be shared with us, under such premises. FE'rs are incorrect in asserting that the public supported and common view should bear the burden of disproving every deviant view. That argument aside, is it a lack of evidence or laziness on your behalf that prevents FE'ers from presenting the reasons they side with FE?

B. This simplified proof also begs questions with 'the conspiracy'. You believe in it yet readily admit to not having witnessed a shred of evidence for it. The only reply I have ever seen suggests the conspiracy because it makes sense if FE is true. If this is the case, the logical structure is still incomplete due to its dependence on part A of my post. The conspiracy is a theory perched upon purely faith-based logic.

It is biased to not post your reasons in an attempt to avoid having your reasons disproved.

Listen, you sheeple who just follow the herd....Don't be so afraid of breaking away.  You are going to find out sooner or later that this earth is indeed not a globe....I pray for you that it will be sooner rather than later because there will be a profound trickle down effect.....Much, if not all of one's understanding is rooted in this concept....This game has been rigged since the Garden of Eden.  Please get hip to the scheme....Walk with me, talk with me....

a panoramic of earth from 'space'
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/lifespan59/untitled.jpg

a fish eye lens of earth from 'space'
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/lifespan59/2935314809_2b37b4c4c2.jpg

please....please, let something much more complicated be your downfall....not something so simple and childlike as a trick of the camera....And by the way, the fish eye lens picture was admitted to even be photoshopped....so, come on now.  Let's at least make them work for the money....

Care to comment?


I cannot with any reasonable certainty say that either one of those photos is the genuine article.  However, I believe it is fairly obvious to the discerning viewer that both photos are the results of a different camera lens.

2 more photos through a fish eye:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/lifespan59/refinery-through-fish-eye_001259BS.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/lifespan59/earth.gif

Yes, I did see that youtube video....Or one just like it....

Those cables expand when they reach the ocean floor due to geothermal energy.

So the crew of the cable laying ship that is loading the cable into the tank, laying the cable on the sea floor and making the terminations doesn't notice that the quantity of cable that they are carrying doesn't match the distance that they travel?  Is there excessive slack on the sea floor that goes unobserved by the ROV burying the cable?  Is this another effect of your miraculous fish?

"In the refinery picture you can see 100% of the refinery before the camera. Fish eye distortion only moves the data about.

In the earth photograph you can only see 50% of the earth. Fish eye distortion would not account for 50% loss in subject."

---goldstein


I will concede you those points for sure.  There's no argument from me on that.....Is it not conceivable though, that this picture of earth from 'space' is not merely a very high altitude picture snapped through a circular window of the 'spacecraft'?  Or just through a device making the image appear spherical?....

example:



making it appear as such:

If you had a 10 kilometer long line being held up at one end by a guy and the other end by a different guy, the distance of the perpendicular from the string to the ground would variate.

Those cables expand when they reach the ocean floor due to geothermal energy.

I wasn't going to respond to this since it appears to be a Trolling post, however, since somebody else did I figure I will explain why this does not happen.

First:  Since these cables have to operate in extreme pressures and temperatures, they are tested very thoroughly.  Many of the first telephone cables that were run across the Atlantic broke, or failed, there was a lot of trial and error before the process was perfected.  As for Fiber, which is used now, an expansion of Fiber cables of that amount would break the cable.

Second:  Cable testing is performed at both ends to determine the EXACT length of these cables after they are run.  I do this myself occasionally at work, the accuracy for these tests can determine the length of the cable within one centimeter.  This method is also used when a cable fails, or breaks, to determine the exact spot along the cable run where the cable failed.  Again it is accurate at predicting the break within one centimeter.  Undersea cables are subject to breaking occasionally, and the exact spot where the cable is broken can be determined.  This way we can go to the exact spot of the break, bring up the cable, determine the damage, and repair, or replace.

With Fiber Optics, which uses light, the simplest test you can do for the length is to send light from one end device (at one end of the connection), to the device on the other end.  When the other end receives, it will send a reply.  The first device measures the time it takes for the response to get back, and since it travels at the speed of light, the distance is easily determined.

Eight pages without a serious reply?...

"In the refinery picture you can see 100% of the refinery before the camera. Fish eye distortion only moves the data about.

In the earth photograph you can only see 50% of the earth. Fish eye distortion would not account for 50% loss in subject."

---goldstein


I will concede you those points for sure.  There's no argument from me on that.....Is it not conceivable though, that this picture of earth from 'space' is not merely a very high altitude picture snapped through a circular window of the 'spacecraft'?  Or just through a device making the image appear spherical?....

example:



making it appear as such:

Pic 1: That hair style has been photoshopped, fake.
Pic 2: Where's your stars?

That picture is most definitely shopped as they added a uniform background. I adjusted intensities corresponding to the initial brightnesses to amplify this pattern. This pattern also ceases early on the bottom right side.



However, I care more about my OP than the NASA picture that was edited to look pretty. 

Lol: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7540427.stm

Also,

How do you explain the GPS system?

The GPS system is totally dependant on ORBITAL motion to coordinate the other 24-32 satellites and relay position information. Unless you don't believe in GPS.

Also, how to do you explain the satellites in the first place? We can't go to space right? How do you explain their 26,000km orbital radius (over twice the diameter of the Earth)? How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people using GPS on a daily basis.

Do you all blindly believe that 99% of the world's population is actually part of a massive thousands of year long conspiracy funded by the governments to convince people that the Earth is round?

I see that as utter insanity.

Go to a beach and you'll see the curvature of the Earth. In fact, the furthest a person can actually see at sea level is roughly 4km due to the curvature (at an eye height of 1.6m on average).

I myself have SEEN the curvature of the Earth in a plane trip I had a while ago. Hell, I even saw it at the beach north of Brisbane a few weeks ago. Am I ignorant to the fact that I just saw the curvature of the horizon with my own eyes?

Not only did some people start hypothesising the round Earth model in favour of clear evidence, people PROVED it long ago. We use non-subjective, non-human TOOLS and DEVICES to MEASURE our observations. They returned the same results as the observations led us to believe.

Unless the tools are part of the conspiracy too?

As determined by modern instruments, a sphere approximates the earth's shape to within one part in 300. An oblate ellipsoid with a flattening of 1/300 approximates the earth exceedingly well. See Figure of the Earth.

...

As the science of geodesy measured Earth more accurately, the shape of the geoid was first found not to be a perfect sphere but to approximate an oblate spheroid, a specific type of ellipsoid. More recent measurements have measured the geoid to unprecedented accuracy, revealing mass concentrations beneath Earth's surface.

The problem with Flat Earthers™ is that they don't measure, study and conclude anything from their findings (because they don't try, they just blindly shrug off every shred of evidence presented to them by the rest of the world's population).

Lol: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7540427.stm

Also,

How do you explain the GPS system?

The GPS system is totally dependant on ORBITAL motion to coordinate the other 24-32 satellites and relay position information. Unless you don't believe in GPS.

Also, how to do you explain the satellites in the first place? We can't go to space right? How do you explain their 26,000km orbital radius (over twice the diameter of the Earth)? How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of people using GPS on a daily basis.

Do you all blindly believe that 99% of the world's population is actually part of a massive thousands of year long conspiracy funded by the governments to convince people that the Earth is round?

I see that as utter insanity.

Go to a beach and you'll see the curvature of the Earth. In fact, the furthest a person can actually see at sea level is roughly 4km due to the curvature (at an eye height of 1.6m on average).

I myself have SEEN the curvature of the Earth in a plane trip I had a while ago. Hell, I even saw it at the beach north of Brisbane a few weeks ago. Am I ignorant to the fact that I just saw the curvature of the horizon with my own eyes?

Not only did some people start hypothesising the round Earth model in favour of clear evidence, people PROVED it long ago. We use non-subjective, non-human TOOLS and DEVICES to MEASURE our observations. They returned the same results as the observations led us to believe.

Unless the tools are part of the conspiracy too?

Quote from: Wikipedia

As determined by modern instruments, a sphere approximates the earth's shape to within one part in 300. An oblate ellipsoid with a flattening of 1/300 approximates the earth exceedingly well. See Figure of the Earth.

...

As the science of geodesy measured Earth more accurately, the shape of the geoid was first found not to be a perfect sphere but to approximate an oblate spheroid, a specific type of ellipsoid. More recent measurements have measured the geoid to unprecedented accuracy, revealing mass concentrations beneath Earth's surface.

The problem with Flat Earthers™ is that they don't measure, study and conclude anything from their findings (because they don't try, they just blindly shrug off every shred of evidence presented to them by the rest of the world's population).

The reasoning is: You have no reasoning, therefore we win. Wow, sounds like the way of the internet to me. The person who doesn't have proof first is wrong. Sounds just like the people who get in fights using comments on YouTube videos because they are too overweight to get out of their computer chair and fight with their fists.

So what, do we just not believe in GPS, or is it a conspiracy?

That picture is most definitely shopped as they added a uniform background. I adjusted intensities corresponding to the initial brightnesses to amplify this pattern. This pattern also ceases early on the bottom right side.



However, I care more about my OP than the NASA picture that was edited to look pretty. 

I don't think they have any evidence except for "it looks flat up close".  Is that your final answer FE?

A. Point 1: It is illogical to arrive at a conclusion without evidence to support the conclusion.
Point 2: You have come to a conclusion of a Flat Earth.
Point 3: If you use logic and reasoning you must have evidence.

I can see no reason why such evidence can't readily be shared with us, under such premises. FE'rs are incorrect in asserting that the public supported and common view should bear the burden of disproving every deviant view. That argument aside, is it a lack of evidence or laziness on your behalf that prevents FE'ers from presenting the reasons they side with FE?

Please read http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/hundreda.html

then come back ty.

For every one of those I read, I think I get a new mental scar.

100. The Sun, as he travels round over the surface of the Earth, brings "noon" to all places on the successive meridians which he crosses: his journey being made in a westerly direction, places east of the Sun's position have had their noon, whilst places to the west of the Sun's position have still to get it. Therefore, if we travel easterly, we arrive at those parts of the Earth where "time" is more advanced, the watch in our pocket has to be "put on"or we may be said to "gain time." If, on the other hand, we travel westerly, we arrive at places where it is still "morning," the watch has to be "put back," and it may be said that we "lose time." But, if we travel easterly so as to cross the 180th meridian, there is a loss, there, of a day, which will neutralize the gain of a whole circumnavigation; and, if we travel westerly, and cross the same meridian, we experience the gain of a day, which will compensate for the loss during a complete circumnavigation in that direction. The fact of losing or gaining time in sailing round the world, then, instead of being evidence of the Earth's "rotundity," as it is imagined to be, is, in its practical exemplification, an everlasting proof that the Earth is not a globe.

What an idiot.

For every one of those I read, I think I get a new mental scar.

Quote

100. The Sun, as he travels round over the surface of the Earth, brings "noon" to all places on the successive meridians which he crosses: his journey being made in a westerly direction, places east of the Sun's position have had their noon, whilst places to the west of the Sun's position have still to get it. Therefore, if we travel easterly, we arrive at those parts of the Earth where "time" is more advanced, the watch in our pocket has to be "put on"or we may be said to "gain time." If, on the other hand, we travel westerly, we arrive at places where it is still "morning," the watch has to be "put back," and it may be said that we "lose time." But, if we travel easterly so as to cross the 180th meridian, there is a loss, there, of a day, which will neutralize the gain of a whole circumnavigation; and, if we travel westerly, and cross the same meridian, we experience the gain of a day, which will compensate for the loss during a complete circumnavigation in that direction. The fact of losing or gaining time in sailing round the world, then, instead of being evidence of the Earth's "rotundity," as it is imagined to be, is, in its practical exemplification, an everlasting proof that the Earth is not a globe.

What an idiot.

that applies to the other 99 jokes, too

Quote from: ﮎingulaЯiτy on October 08, 2008, 06:10:49 AM

A. Point 1: It is illogical to arrive at a conclusion without evidence to support the conclusion.
Point 2: You have come to a conclusion of a Flat Earth.
Point 3: If you use logic and reasoning you must have evidence.

I can see no reason why such evidence can't readily be shared with us, under such premises. FE'rs are incorrect in asserting that the public supported and common view should bear the burden of disproving every deviant view. That argument aside, is it a lack of evidence or laziness on your behalf that prevents FE'ers from presenting the reasons they side with FE?

Please read http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/hundreda.html

then come back ty.

4. There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet - notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's "convexity." It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe.

That convinced me.

29. If the Earth were a globe, it would, unquestionably, have the same general characteristics - no matter its size - as a small globe that may be stood upon the table. As the small globe has top, bottom, and sides, so must also the large one - no matter how large it be. But, as the Earth, which is "supposed" to be a large globe, bas no sides or bottom as the small globe has, the conclusion is irresistible that it is a proof that the Earth is not a globe.

Narc? is that you?

21. Man's experience tells him that he is not constructed like the flies that can live said move upon the ceiling of a room with as much safety as on the floor: - and since the modern theory of a planetary earth necessitates a crowd of theories to keep company with it, and one of them is that men are really bound to. the earth by a force which fastens them to it "like needles round a spherical loadstone," a theory perfectly outrageous and opposed to all human experience, it follows that, unless we can trample upon common sense ane ignore the teachings of experience, we have an evident proof that the Earth is not a globe.

Sounds like someone beat you guys to the "gravity does not exist" mantra.

Some very convincing disproving going on here ...

Nice work RE...

/thread

do a search on the forum. all these topics have already been discussed or are in the process of being discussed. no need to do it again.

Some very convincing disproving going on here ...

Nice work RE...

/thread

Wow, and GREAT proving, FE. It's like, the best. Wow. Amazing. Intense. Best thing ever. You're the best. Thanks.

I have 100 proofs. You have 0.