Distances

Hello, this is my first message. I`m spanish, sorry for my english.

If Earth is flat... South of all continents are more far than North... It is not perceived in the intercontinental trips?

And now, with the climatic changes... if the ice wall is melted, all the water of Earth is spilt?

Thanks,

Hello, this is my first message. I`m spanish, sorry for my english.

If Earth is flat... South of all continents are more far than North... It is not perceived in the intercontinental trips?

And now, with the climatic changes... if the ice wall is melted, all the water of Earth is spilt?

Thanks,

Pensé que nunca encontraria otro español en este foro!

Well, I'm a RE'er as well, but the pilots are sopossed to be in the conspiracy, or there are some mistakes in the system of flights and measurements that cheat us/them.
And the Ice wall is but a range of mountains covered in ice and snow. Besides, FET denies the climatic changes (Or at least I understood so).

No sabes lo que desestresa leer un poco de español para variar...


Well, then, why diferent zones of The World have diferent Finge time?

If Earth is flat, all the surface must have the same hour, or not?

And then, Why the compasses work? what is the terrestrial magnetism?, how is generated?.

Well, then, why diferent zones of The World have diferent Finge time?

If Earth is flat, all the surface must have the same hour, or not?

No time zones are based on local noon.  Because in the FE model the Sun still moves through the sky, you would still need time zones to account for the differences in the time of local noon, as well as sunrise, sunset and length of day in general.

And then, Why the compasses work? what is the terrestrial magnetism?, how is generated?.

The FEers have not come up with any explanation for this that I am aware of.

Quote from: Erume on October 03, 2008, 02:33:33 AM

Hello, this is my first message. I`m spanish, sorry for my english.

If Earth is flat... South of all continents are more far than North... It is not perceived in the intercontinental trips?

And now, with the climatic changes... if the ice wall is melted, all the water of Earth is spilt?

Thanks,

Pensé que nunca encontraria otro español en este foro!

Well, I'm a RE'er as well, but the pilots are supposed to be in on the conspiracy, or there are some mistakes in the system of flights and measurements that cheat us/them.

My problem with the airline conspiracy theory is that sailors, both current and prior to the conspiracy, travel, or would have traveled all those paths. With both the conventional FE map, and the new map I've seen thrown around, distances are exaggerated to an unacceptable degree that would be noted. I've seen nothing IRL to indicate that.

No answers in this thread I think is enough to guess we won again. Though I've read about these same topics more than once. Maybe searching you could find something interesting.

Por cierto Erume, eres chico o chica? De donde eres? Como has llegao a esta pagina? XDDDD

The last time I raised this issue it was answered as some kind

Quote from: Erume on October 03, 2008, 02:33:33 AM

If Earth is flat... South of all continents are more far than North... It is not perceived in the intercontinental trips?
Thanks,

The last time I raised this it was answered as some kind of time dilation effect  . It was all nonsense of course, but gave the FE'ers enough breathing space to start shouting about conspiracies and NASA.

Woop.

or when creating the round earth maps they adjusted for the distortion that happens when you make something flat a sphere. We lack the time and technology to undo this distortion and our maps are simply basic interpretations of the layout of the earth.

wow, isn't it strange that this works two ways...

or when creating the round earth maps they adjusted for the distortion that happens when you make something flat a sphere. We lack the time and technology to undo this distortion and our maps are simply basic interpretations of the layout of the earth.

wow, isn't it strange that this works two ways...

The nice thing about RE charts is the fact that they are accurate both in distances between points and the repeatability of observations.  The distances between lines of longitude for any latitude is consistant for both the northern and southern hemispheres.  This distance is verified through the observation of celestial objects (Sun, Moon, planets, stars) and also terrestrial observations (bearings to known objects).

The fact that a FE map has not been able to achieve any sort of consistency between matching a chart to real world observations, and then being able to verify that information repeatedly has nothing to do with lack of time, money or technology in my opinion.

Until this happens, FE works under a severe lack of credibility.

or when creating the round earth maps they adjusted for the distortion that happens when you make something flat a sphere. We lack the time and technology to undo this distortion and our maps are simply basic interpretations of the layout of the earth.

wow, isn't it strange that this works two ways...

But we have it for creating so many fakes in pictures and videos? C'mooooooon

Quote from: Raist on October 04, 2008, 09:15:21 PM

or when creating the round earth maps they adjusted for the distortion that happens when you make something flat a sphere. We lack the time and technology to undo this distortion and our maps are simply basic interpretations of the layout of the earth.

wow, isn't it strange that this works two ways...

The nice thing about RE charts is the fact that they are accurate both in distances between points and the repeatability of observations.  The distances between lines of longitude for any latitude is consistant for both the northern and southern hemispheres.  This distance is verified through the observation of celestial objects (Sun, Moon, planets, stars) and also terrestrial observations (bearings to known objects).

The fact that a FE map has not been able to achieve any sort of consistency between matching a chart to real world observations, and then being able to verify that information repeatedly has nothing to do with lack of time, money or technology in my opinion.

Until this happens, FE works under a severe lack of credibility.

Completely agree, 100%.

The nice thing about RE charts is the fact that they are accurate both in distances between points and the repeatability of observations.

Really? You guys were able to make an accurate map an RE onto a flat surface? 

Really? You guys were able to make an accurate map an RE onto a flat surface? 

Me personally?  No.  But for hundreds of years people have been doing just that.

Quote

The nice thing about RE charts is the fact that they are accurate both in distances between points and the repeatability of observations.

Really? You guys were able to make an accurate map an RE onto a flat surface? 

Yes

http://cdn.mapquest.com/mqatlasenglish/world

Por cierto Erume, eres chico o chica? De donde eres? Como has llegao a esta pagina? XDDDD

Off-Topic:
Chico, de Sevilla. Y me trajo lo que siempre me pierde, la curiosidad xDD.

Quote from: Kira-SY on October 03, 2008, 03:00:33 AM

Quote from: Erume on October 03, 2008, 02:33:33 AM

Hello, this is my first message. I`m spanish, sorry for my english.

If Earth is flat... South of all continents are more far than North... It is not perceived in the intercontinental trips?

And now, with the climatic changes... if the ice wall is melted, all the water of Earth is spilt?

Thanks,

Pensé que nunca encontraria otro español en este foro!

Well, I'm a RE'er as well, but the pilots are supposed to be in on the conspiracy, or there are some mistakes in the system of flights and measurements that cheat us/them.

My problem with the airline conspiracy theory is that sailors, both current and prior to the conspiracy, travel, or would have traveled all those paths. With both the conventional FE map, and the new map I've seen thrown around, distances are exaggerated to an unacceptable degree that would be noted. I've seen nothing IRL to indicate that.

No one seems to be trying to answer this post (which is my favourite). Ships often travel the same paths as planes across oceans.

Nor the one I quoted in red 

So if I measure 1000 miles on the globe, and then cover those 1000 miles in real life, I will arrive at the exected location.

Just how big is your globe?

It's in the FAQ. Here I'll help:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=radius+of+the+earth&btnG=Search&meta=

You have a globe with a radius of 6378.1 kilometres?

You have a globe with a radius of 6378.1 kilometres?

I actually only own a small piece of it...

Uh huh.

Feel free to answer to question in the OP.

Jet streams and ocean currents.

Good. In what way?

In the way that boats and planes are travelling faster than they appear to be, because the water and air themselves are moving.

In the way that boats and planes are travelling faster than they appear to be, because the water and air themselves are moving.

Speaking only of waterborne transportation, this gain for current would have to be proportional to the speed of the vessel. 

Lets set up a hypothetical voyage.  We have two ships (Alpha and Bravo) traveling along a line of latitude going west.  And so we have numbers to work with, lets say that voyage is 2500 nautical miles from Port A in the east to Port B in the west.

Alpha and [/i]Charlie[/i] both go 25 knots (nautical miles per hour) while Bravo and Delta only go 10. 

Assume there is a current flowing from east to west at 5 knots (about the speed of the Gulf Stream ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream[/url)).

Alpha with a speed made good of 30 knots would expect to complete the voyage in 83.3 hours, while the Bravo making good 15 knots would expect to complete the voyage in 166.7 hours.  This is compared to 100 hours and 250 hours respectively.  Alpha sees an 17% improvement while Bravo sees a 33% improvement.

On the return voyage, Alpha would only be making good 20 knots, so the voyage would take 125 hrs.  Bravo would only be making good 5 knots and would complete the voyage in 500 hrs.

In order for FE theory to be correct, the return voyage would have to be the same length as the outbound voyage.  This would require a 5 knot counter-current running along the exact same course line.

Now, please explain to me how, if these currents exist...

1.  These currents have not been measured or observed.
2.  These currents can be bi-directional simultaneously
3.  These currents can be traveled in an infinite number of course lines between various ports, regardless of direction.
4.  Celestial observations don't detect abnormal speed rates that would be required to mislead navigators about the true distances between ports.

1.  These currents have not been measured or observed.

That's because people assume a Round Earth, so their effects are never noticed.

2.  These currents can be bi-directional simultaneously
3.  These currents can be traveled in an infinite number of course lines between various ports, regardless of direction.

The people who plan the shipping routes are in on the Conspiracy. The captains of ships just sail where they are told to.

4.  Celestial observations don't detect abnormal speed rates that would be required to mislead navigators about the true distances between ports.

Again, you are assuming a RE sky. The stars in FE, while not yet perfectly modeled, would give the impression that the boats are travelling more slowly than they really are.

Quote from: Rig Navigator on October 05, 2008, 07:30:38 AM

1.  These currents have not been measured or observed.

That's because people assume a Round Earth, so their effects are never noticed.

Why not?

Quote from: Rig Navigator on October 05, 2008, 07:30:38 AM

2.  These currents can be bi-directional simultaneously
3.  These currents can be traveled in an infinite number of course lines between various ports, regardless of direction.

The people who plan the shipping routes are in on the Conspiracy. The captains of ships just sail where they are told to.

I thought the conspiracy was just the top three blokes at NASA? Now there are thousands of captains in on it? Make sure you update the calculations of how costly the conspiracy would be.

Quote from: Rig Navigator on October 05, 2008, 07:30:38 AM

4.  Celestial observations don't detect abnormal speed rates that would be required to mislead navigators about the true distances between ports.

Again, you are assuming a RE sky. The stars in FE, while not yet perfectly modeled, would give the impression that the boats are travelling more slowly than they really are.

Why?

Why not?

Because travel times are as expected on a Round Earth.

I thought the conspiracy was just the top three blokes at NASA? Now there are thousands of captains in on it? Make sure you update the calculations of how costly the conspiracy would be.

 

Why?

Because the stars in Cape Town would suggest a RE longitude of 18° 25' E and the stars in Perth would suggest a RE longitude of 115° 52' E. Travelling between the two would suggest a proportionate time rate of change.

That's because people assume a Round Earth, so their effects are never noticed.

One of the properties of currents is there difference from surrounding water.  This has nothing to do with assuming FE or RE.

The people who plan the shipping routes are in on the Conspiracy. The captains of ships just sail where they are told to.

Hate to break this to you, the people that plan the routes are on the ships.  The office sends a message that says to be in a certain port on a certain day.  The ship's crew then plots the route, calculates ETA and transmits that information to the office, who pass that information on to the party that chartered the vessel.

Again, you are assuming a RE sky. The stars in FE, while not yet perfectly modeled, would give the impression that the boats are travelling more slowly than they really are.

The sky is the sky.  If I measure the angle to the Sun at local noon (meridian transit), that will give me a latitude.  The time of local noon tells me my longitude.  The same with the Moon or any star.  The math gets a little more complicated for a body (Sun, Moon, star, or planet) that is not at local noon, but that will still give the same result, a latitude and longitude.

All of this still doesn't explain how you can get the same effect based on different speed vessels.  Lets put the thought experiment back up for people that can't scroll...

Lets set up a hypothetical voyage.  We have two ships (Alpha and Bravo) traveling along a line of latitude going west.  And so we have numbers to work with, lets say that voyage is 2500 nautical miles from Port A in the east to Port B in the west.

Alpha goes 25 knots (nautical miles per hour) while Bravo only goes 10. 

Assume there is a current flowing from east to west at 5 knots (about the speed of the Gulf Stream ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream[/url)).

Alpha with a speed made good of 30 knots would expect to complete the voyage in 83.3 hours, while the Bravo making good 15 knots would expect to complete the voyage in 166.7 hours.  This is compared to 100 hours and 250 hours respectively.  Alpha sees an 17% improvement while Bravo sees a 33% improvement.

On the return voyage, Alpha would only be making good 20 knots, so the voyage would take 125 hrs.  Bravo would only be making good 5 knots and would complete the voyage in 500 hrs.

If the Alpha was unaware of the current, her crew would have to think that the distance from Port A to Port B was 2,082.5 nm (83.3 hrs x 25 kts), and the Bravo would have to think that the distance was 1,667 nm (100 hrs x 10 kts).  The ships would have to have different charts!

One of the properties of currents is there difference from surrounding water.  This has nothing to do with assuming FE or RE.

The currents have negligible difference from surrounding water.

Hate to break this to you, the people that plan the routes are on the ships.  The office sends a message that says to be in a certain port on a certain day.  The ship's crew then plots the route, calculates ETA and transmits that information to the office, who pass that information on to the party that chartered the vessel.

And how do they avoid a hundred different ships all sailing along the same route at once?

The sky is the sky.  If I measure the angle to the Sun at local noon (meridian transit), that will give me a latitude.  The time of local noon tells me my longitude.  The same with the Moon or any star.  The math gets a little more complicated for a body (Sun, Moon, star, or planet) that is not at local noon, but that will still give the same result, a latitude and longitude.

Yes, and because of the difference in the motion of the RE sun and the FE sun, the boats must be travelling faster on a FE to observe the same effect.

If the Alpha was unaware of the current, her crew would have to think that the distance from Port A to Port B was 2,082.5 nm (83.3 hrs x 25 kts), and the Bravo would have to think that the distance was 1,667 nm (100 hrs x 10 kts).  The ships would have to have different charts!

Fish like to swim in the wake of fast-moving vessels, often close enough to nudge the vessel itself. The collective force of a lot of fish all nudging the vessel causes it to move faster.

Fish like to swim in the wake of fast-moving vessels, often close enough to nudge the vessel itself. The collective force of a lot of fish all nudging the vessel causes it to move faster.

Oh wow.

I award you 20 internets for originality, and subtract 19 for fail. I leave one because you were able to be reasoned with in the religion thread, so you're still in the black.

Fish like to swim in the wake of fast-moving vessels, often close enough to nudge the vessel itself. The collective force of a lot of fish all nudging the vessel causes it to move faster.

Wow!  Sigged.  Sorry Gayer, but this one is a keeper.

Quote from: Osama  bin Laden on October 05, 2008, 08:16:42 AM

Fish like to swim in the wake of fast-moving vessels, often close enough to nudge the vessel itself. The collective force of a lot of fish all nudging the vessel causes it to move faster.

Wow!  Sigged.  Sorry Gayer, but this one is a keeper.

Damn, you beat me to it! I tried to sig but it was too long, didn't think to chop off the first part.