"How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"

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AmateurAstronomer

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2008, 10:03:17 AM »

A better question would be how a plane follows the longitudinal curve... Shortest path?

Explain your point and question with more words. If I did understand correctly same reason why they don't fly over the North pole to get to Asia. D-E-C-E-P-T-I-O-N


I would have explained my point with more words if you had made even an attempt to make apparent what it was you were asking.

Aw, hell I'll try. FET holds that planes and boats travel in arcs instead of lines. Therefore a boat or a plane under FET theory would travel in an arc pretty much equivalent to the the longitudinal arc equivalent under RET between two points. My assertion is that at least with planes, with FET you could potentially move directly from one point to another by moving in a straight line between those points.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:09:16 AM by AmateurAstronomer »
Reality becomes apparent to the patient observer. Or you can learn a thing or two if you're in a hurry.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2008, 10:04:50 AM »

I can assure you that planes do not constantly trim their flight to maintain altitude. Just as a rock that is tied to one's finger may be kept spinning about it, a plane that is pulled to the earth by the force of gravity will not just float off into space bacause it is going fast

Brother your in luck, your not indoctrinated by the educational system and therefore your brain can be salvaged. The rock tied to a string remains constant to the ground because the string is tied to your finger, your finger bone is connected to your arm bone is connected to the backbone connected to the leg bone connected to the foot bone. Now your foot is constantly touching the ground whether the ground elevates or curves in declination that rock will remain constant because your foot makes that adjustment. So how does the plane make its adjustments without anyone feeling it or hearing it?


As for your "evidence" in the form of hearing observations, there is no way that you could have heard a commercial jet's hydrolics from inside the cabin (which can be as loud as 86 decibels).

You've never been on a plane! Everyone can hear those hydraulics at take off and once in the air as the plane adjusts to height and of course when it begins its descent from cruising altitude.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:26:54 AM by Punisher »

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2008, 10:11:16 AM »

Explain your point and question with more words. If I did understand correctly same reason why they don't fly over the North pole to get to Asia. D-E-C-E-P-T-I-O-N
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"They"? Who is this generic "they"? If you mean flights from australia then it is obvious why they do not fly over the North Pole to get to Asia - that would take forever. If you mean flights from north america then you are simply fail at geography - they do fly over the arctic ocean to get to asia. In either case this was not a very convincing arguement.

You like lies my friend, and "they" are "those" who lie. Conviction are for the faithful.


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AmateurAstronomer

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 10:18:28 AM »

Explain your point and question with more words. If I did understand correctly same reason why they don't fly over the North pole to get to Asia. D-E-C-E-P-T-I-O-N
------------------------------------
"They"? Who is this generic "they"? If you mean flights from australia then it is obvious why they do not fly over the North Pole to get to Asia - that would take forever. If you mean flights from north america then you are simply fail at geography - they do fly over the arctic ocean to get to asia. In either case this was not a very convincing arguement.

You like lies my friend, and "they" are "those" who lie. Conviction are for the faithful.

Dude, either answer him or shut the fuck up. Do you think people are really into your cryptic shit? I don't trust religious people at all, regardless of what the believe in, and you are in deeper than most.
Reality becomes apparent to the patient observer. Or you can learn a thing or two if you're in a hurry.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2008, 10:19:33 AM »

Explain your point and question with more words. If I did understand correctly same reason why they don't fly over the North pole to get to Asia. D-E-C-E-P-T-I-O-N
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Aw, hell I'll try. FET holds that planes and boats travel in arcs instead of lines. Therefore a boat or a plane under FET theory would travel in an arc pretty much equivalent to the the longitudinal arc equivalent under RET between two points. My assertion is that at least with planes, with FET you could potentially move directly from one point to another by moving in a straight line between those points.

Brother don't argue with me, I agree with your point the above reply confirms it, I just wanted to be sure. The air routes were laid out with an arc-trajectory to deceive.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2008, 10:23:03 AM »

Dude, either answer him or shut the fuck up. Do you think people are really into your cryptic shit? I don't trust religious people at all, regardless of what the believe in, and you are in deeper than most. 

I did with the illustration provided, words speak a thousand words unlike your able. The shortest route to get to Asia from north America is over the north pole. Do you see this? Then STFU!!!!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 10:27:17 AM by Punisher »

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MadDogX

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2008, 10:36:32 AM »
The shortest route to get to Asia from north America is over the north pole.


Since that is true both on FE and RE, how do you rationalize avoiding the north pole as somehow being part of the conspiracy?
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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2008, 10:43:08 AM »

The shortest route to get to Asia from north America is over the north pole.

Since that is true both on FE and RE, how do you rationalize avoiding the north pole as somehow being part of the conspiracy?

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22517.msg461260#msg461260

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2008, 12:00:14 PM »
just to be clear are Fe'ers saying Fe straight paths would give a faster route?

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2008, 02:41:57 PM »
just to be clear are Fe'ers saying Fe straight paths would give a faster route?

Listen dudes, don't pay attention to these University drop-outs.

At point (A) the airplane reaches cruising altitude and pilot engages trim tabs, the ground below is a given 34,000 ft, upon reaching point (B) 500 miles later the ground below curved underneath around the so-called round Earth and gained altitude. Now the airplane has to reach point (E), therefore altitude adjustment must be implemented or air routes are compromised.

At point (A) were the trim tabs adjusted, but when the airplane reaches point (B) the curvature of the round Earth declined and new adjustment must be implemented because the airplane is no longer at point (A).

Riddle me this!!!!

Those pilots would have to make adjustments, and because its hard to see those tail elevators, but you can hear the motor (hydraulics) of the elevators, just like you can hear the motors of the aileron, spoilers and flaps. Either way, which ever way you choose to represent your point whether the aircraft follows the surface of the Earth or the pressure of the air both curve on a round Earth and because the airplane is flying perpendicular from point (A) being of surface or of air, upon reaching point (B) adjustments will have to be made using Hydraulic elevators - noise - nose pitch!!!!!

But the ride of the airplane is always leveled once in cruising altitude, so, this proves to all who have flown that the Earth is Flat, and nobody here on this forum, or on any other monkey forum will prove otherwise....

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2008, 03:02:43 PM »
RE physics do prove how a plane would be able to maintain altitude:
As a plane produces lift, "gravity" would pull it down, so when lift equals gravity, it will have a stable altitude, if it was unmoving, but then as it starts moving, centripetal force will also act upon it pulling it towards the "center" of the earth, so as it goes over the curvature of the earth it would constantly be accelertaing towards the surface, but due to the earth being "round" it would never hit the surface



So if the earth was round that is the reasoning, but the earth isn't round so there is no point in further discussing this issue

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Ski

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2008, 12:55:51 AM »
Whether FE or RE, this is related to density altitude. The plane will naturally settle where the lift and weight are at equilibrium.

This is partially incorrect.  The first part is correct the second part is not.  Lift and weight distribution have to be at equilibrium upon takeoff.  Otherwise the aircraft will either not get off the ground or flip over once airborne and crash.

 ???

At take off the lift and weight are not at equilibrium.  L>W at take off or you would not take off.
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markjo

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2008, 05:34:24 AM »
Whether FE or RE, this is related to density altitude. The plane will naturally settle where the lift and weight are at equilibrium.

This is partially incorrect.  The first part is correct the second part is not.  Lift and weight distribution have to be at equilibrium upon takeoff.  Otherwise the aircraft will either not get off the ground or flip over once airborne and crash.

 ???

At take off the lift and weight are not at equilibrium.  L>W at take off or you would not take off.

He said weight distribution, as in center of gravity (I believe).  If the CG is too far forward or aft, you will have a very short and eventful flight (a.k.a. crash).
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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E349

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2008, 11:40:13 AM »
You like lies my friend, and "they" are "those" who lie. Conviction are for the faithful.


Uh...You still fail at geography. Birmingham, London, Paris and Frankfurt are in EUROPE. Europe is not Asia. If you wanted to fly to Asia you would still have to fly over the Arctic circle.

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2016, 08:07:38 AM »
I'll jump into the topic.

Yes the Aircraft attitude does constantly pitch down as it moves across the Earth.

It seems nobody has actually done the calculations so here they are.

At 450 Kts you travel around the Earth in 48 hours.

The Aircraft must therefore pitch 360 degrees in 48 hours.

That is FOUR times slower than the movement of the Hour Hand on a Clock.    You cannot even see the hour hand on a clock moving at normal speed...   

The rate is 1 degree every 8 minutes if cruising at 450 Kts.

No person on Earth can feel steady movement this slow.

The aircraft is flown at a steady altitude by reference to the Altimeter and Vertical Speed indicator - that requires numerous tiny adjustments every minute - whether being hand flown or by the autopilot.

1 degree of pitch in 8 minutes is completely absorbed by these smaller and more frequent corrections.   Since the perspective in the window does not change the pitch down is completely imperceptible.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:13:02 AM by Wolfie6020 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2016, 08:44:02 AM »
I'll jump into the topic.

Yes the Aircraft attitude does constantly pitch down as it moves across the Earth.

It seems nobody has actually done the calculations so here they are.

At 450 Kts you travel around the Earth in 48 hours.

The Aircraft must therefore pitch 360 degrees in 48 hours.

That is FOUR times slower than the movement of the Hour Hand on a Clock.    You cannot even see the hour hand on a clock moving at normal speed...   

The rate is 1 degree every 8 minutes if cruising at 450 Kts.

No person on Earth can feel steady movement this slow.

The aircraft is flown at a steady altitude by reference to the Altimeter and Vertical Speed indicator - that requires numerous tiny adjustments every minute - whether being hand flown or by the autopilot.

1 degree of pitch in 8 minutes is completely absorbed by these smaller and more frequent corrections.   Since the perspective in the window does not change the pitch down is completely imperceptible.
Nice try but it makes no difference about how slow the pitch is. The fact remains that pilots would have to alter constant level instead of flying against the level horizon of their instrument.

We all know that the horizon level is adhered to whilst cruising altitude is achieved which is kept set by auto pilot for most of the time.

This is why planes zig zag to destinations after setting courses, because it ensures they don't take any curved path around a flat Earth and giving rise to immediate questioning by savvy people.

The Earth is absolutely 100% not a rotating globe and planes above all else prove it way beyond any reasonable doubt.

Indoctrination in schools and colleges etc, is severe and keeps many people quite happy to simply follow something that should be so far out of logic as to be crystal clear to be complete and utter bollocks and yet the promise of a certificate keeps the mindset of most on acceptance of anything the idols/tutors/professors...etc...etc...etc, say.

What a sad state of affairs it is.
The saddest part is, material items will always pacify the majority and keep them dumbed down to extremes but be put high on a pedestal by those controlling their psyche, so that they have a mindset to go into frenzied ridicule mode of anything that goes against the system.

Luckily I'm at an age where I know nothing will ever change. Nothing will change as long as material items and naivety rule the roost.


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onebigmonkey

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2016, 08:53:54 AM »
Nice try but it makes no difference about how slow the pitch is. The fact remains that pilots would have to alter constant level instead of flying against the level horizon of their instrument.

We all know that the horizon level is adhered to whilst cruising altitude is achieved which is kept set by auto pilot for most of the time.

The plane stays at the same altitude because of the shape of the wing and the way it deals with the atmosphere around it. That atmosphere is also following the curve of the Earth.

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This is why planes zig zag to destinations after setting courses, because it ensures they don't take any curved path around a flat Earth and giving rise to immediate questioning by savvy people.

Planes 'zig zag' to follow agreed routes to destinations so that they don't start running into other air craft and so that they can avoid potential hazards like mountains and people firing missiles at them. The zig zags are not to fool people like you, they wouldn't need to stretch to something that complicated.

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The Earth is absolutely 100% not a rotating globe and planes above all else prove it way beyond any reasonable doubt.

Yes it is and no, they don't.

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Indoctrination in schools and colleges etc, is severe and keeps many people quite happy to simply follow something that should be so far out of logic as to be crystal clear to be complete and utter bollocks and yet the promise of a certificate keeps the mindset of most on acceptance of anything the idols/tutors/professors...etc...etc...etc, say.

If only you'd stayed in there long enough to get one.
Facts won't do what I want them to.

We went from a round Earth to a round Moon: http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/apollo.html

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sceptimatic

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2016, 09:14:42 AM »
Nice try but it makes no difference about how slow the pitch is. The fact remains that pilots would have to alter constant level instead of flying against the level horizon of their instrument.

We all know that the horizon level is adhered to whilst cruising altitude is achieved which is kept set by auto pilot for most of the time.

The plane stays at the same altitude because of the shape of the wing and the way it deals with the atmosphere around it. That atmosphere is also following the curve of the Earth.

Quote
This is why planes zig zag to destinations after setting courses, because it ensures they don't take any curved path around a flat Earth and giving rise to immediate questioning by savvy people.

Planes 'zig zag' to follow agreed routes to destinations so that they don't start running into other air craft and so that they can avoid potential hazards like mountains and people firing missiles at them. The zig zags are not to fool people like you, they wouldn't need to stretch to something that complicated.

Quote

The Earth is absolutely 100% not a rotating globe and planes above all else prove it way beyond any reasonable doubt.

Yes it is and no, they don't.

Quote

Indoctrination in schools and colleges etc, is severe and keeps many people quite happy to simply follow something that should be so far out of logic as to be crystal clear to be complete and utter bollocks and yet the promise of a certificate keeps the mindset of most on acceptance of anything the idols/tutors/professors...etc...etc...etc, say.

If only you'd stayed in there long enough to get one.
You really shouldn't waste your time trying to convince me. I already know the global Earth is a massive load of old bullshit and no amount of your words will change that.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2016, 09:24:21 AM »
simple test, next time you're in a plane, ask the pilot to dip the nose now and then..

I'm guessing you won't be back with any results

some of these flat earth 'proofs' are absolutely shockingly ridiculous

here: a plane flies straight, gravity pulls it down, engine power keeps it up keeping it constant

a simple google search would explain this for you, it's hardly a difficult question

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2016, 09:27:03 AM »
You really shouldn't waste your time trying to convince me. I already know the global Earth is a massive load of old bullshit and no amount of your words will change that.

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sceptimatic

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2016, 09:37:23 AM »
simple test, next time you're in a plane, ask the pilot to dip the nose now and then..

I'm guessing you won't be back with any results

some of these flat earth 'proofs' are absolutely shockingly ridiculous

here: a plane flies straight, gravity pulls it down, engine power keeps it up keeping it constant

a simple google search would explain this for you, it's hardly a difficult question
A google search, hahahahahaha.
Like I said earlier, save your bullshit for those that have hard drives implanted in their heads from the PP factory.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2016, 10:17:10 AM »
oh so everything on Google is a conspiracy too? its not something that WOULD be hidden, I see you didn't attempt to actually reply

also, Google tells me that paper comes from trees, holy shit, I've been indoctrinated!! :O can you, with your infinite wisdom, explain to me where paper actually comes from?!?!
 

also, if you answer nothing else, please answer this:
do you believe in angels?

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RocksEverywhere

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2016, 10:23:52 AM »
It really can't be put any more simple than that the plane follows the atmosphere and the atmosphere follows the earth's curve.

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(...) no amount of your words will change that.
What's the point of having a closed mind?
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onebigmonkey

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2016, 11:15:47 AM »
You really shouldn't waste your time trying to convince me. I already know the global Earth is a massive load of old bullshit and no amount of your words will change that.

When you finally realise you were wrong, when that realisation smacks you right between the eyes that you were making a dick of yourself all those years on the internet, I want to make sure you won't be able to say "nobody told me...".
Facts won't do what I want them to.

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2016, 12:13:50 PM »
I've taken many flights from Dallas to San Diego, and back - never once experienced any zig zaggery.

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sceptimatic

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2016, 01:36:06 PM »
oh so everything on Google is a conspiracy too? its not something that WOULD be hidden, I see you didn't attempt to actually reply

also, Google tells me that paper comes from trees, holy shit, I've been indoctrinated!! :O can you, with your infinite wisdom, explain to me where paper actually comes from?!?!
 

also, if you answer nothing else, please answer this:
do you believe in angels?
There's lots of things on google that will be true. There will be lots that are just guesses. There's also lost of stuff that is complete and utter crap, so citing google isn't a proof of anything, is it?
As to whether I believe in angels. In what sense?

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sceptimatic

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2016, 01:41:38 PM »
You really shouldn't waste your time trying to convince me. I already know the global Earth is a massive load of old bullshit and no amount of your words will change that.

When you finally realise you were wrong, when that realisation smacks you right between the eyes that you were making a dick of yourself all those years on the internet, I want to make sure you won't be able to say "nobody told me...".
I could be wrong about many things. One thing I'm not wrong about, is the Earth not being a spinning globe. I'm 100% correct about that.
One day you might wake up but you know what? I doubt you have the bottle to admit it. All you'll do is carry on in life and follow the masses like all the other weak minded.
That's not necessarily a dig or a bad thing on you because in a way I wish I was still totally naive and just accepted everything without bothering to find anything out.

Life's much easier that way, so I can see why having a weak mind would suit you.

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rabinoz

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Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2016, 04:31:17 PM »

The autopilot/pilot is always making constant adjustments to correct for air currents. The small adjustments needed to keep the plane at the right altitude would be part of these.

Wrong, if you have ever been on a plane the flaps of the wings (aileron) never move not once at cruising level....

  • The "flaps of the wings" and the "aileron" are quite different control surfaces. The flaps are only extended for extra lift during take-off and landing.
    The ailerons are used to bank the plane and with the rudder (to "co-ordinate) turn the plane.

  • Vertical control uses the elevators on the tailplane and cannot be seen during flight.

  • A climb is initiated by combined increase in engine power and slight elevator movement.

  • At constant engine power a properly trimmed plane will tend to keep at the same "pressure altitude", that is the same altitude above the surface of the earth. The pilot or a co-pilot will make any slight corrections as needed.

The last point can be explained a little more fully:

If a slight disturbance (a little more headwind) causes the plane to climb a little the air density is lower, decreasing lift, so bringing the plane back to the original "pressure altitude" and vice-versa.

In any case, the angle of the plane (at 1,000 km/hr) is only changing by about 0.15/min - big deal.

Mr Punisher you have been watching too many silly Youtube videos by Eric Dubay and the like.

Next thing you'll be claiming that flight attitude gyros prove a flat earth! No, they do not.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2017, 04:18:38 PM »
Most airliners have two sets of ailerons used for roll control; an inner set which can also be used as a a flap, called a flaperon, and an outer set of ailerons. The outer set gets locked out as the aircrafts speed increases and becomes effective again as the aircraft slows down. This is because at high speed, control surfaces become more effective and less effective at low speeds, therefore only one set is required at cruising speed and both sets provide positive roll control on takeoff and landing. You can see the inner one moving in flight during turbulence and for minor course corrections like avoiding thunderstorms and changing track.

As far as following the curvature of the Earth goes... they dont. Airliners set a standard altimeter setting once passing above what is called the "Transition Altitude". This is 29.92mb in the US or 1013.25 hpa everywhere else in the world. If the cruising altitude is 35,000 feet, the aircraft is flying at the pressure level of 35000 feet, and rarely is it actually 35000 feet above Mean Sea Level.

The autopilot receives an altimeter input and simply maintains the desired pressure altitude. This works because pressure levels in the upper atmosphere are very stratified.

The actual height above ground is called the "Geometric Altitude" and can vary by several thousand feet from the set pressure altitude. This doesn't effect aircraft performance however as all performance predictions for any airliner are based on flying at a standard pressure level rather than a geometric one.

Pressure altitudes are generally higher than the equivalent geometric altitude in the tropics and less than the equivalent in cold climates. It is not unusual in the tropics to be flying at a geometric altitude higher than the maximum altitude for the aircraft whilst flying at a pressure level lower than the maximum.

Hope this helps.

BTW the FE is completely wrong. I'd be dead if it was true.

Re: "How does a plane follow the curvature of the Earth's atmosphere?"
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2017, 11:33:10 PM »
Wow.  The fail of this thread is epic.  I mean truly epic.

I concur. Although I am unable to explain this phenomenon (I have yet to take a school course in physics) I can assure you that planes do not constantly trim their flight to maintain altitude. Just as a rock that is tied to one's finger may be kept spinning about it, a plane that is pulled to the earth by the force of gravity will not just float off into space bacause it is going fast

As for your "evidence" in the form of hearing observations, there is no way that you could have heard a commercial jet's hydrolics from inside the cabin (which can be as loud as 86 decibels).

I don't know if that's a typo or not, but airplanes absolutley without a doubt, 100%, adjust their trim to maintain altitude and attitude. I fly small Cessna's, one thing my right hand is doing nearly all the time, is adjusting the trim wheel. First I don't think many people know what trim is. Trimming an airplanes control surfaces is used to relive the force needed to make a plane climb, dive, maintain altitude, and even bank if the plane has aileron trim.

When you pull the yoke back to climb you have to use your arm strength to hold the plane at that attitude. With the elevator trim you can "trim" the plane is a nose up attitude, almost like cruise control for steering. If the plane is trimmed right you can literally fly hands off. Trimming the plane makes it want to stay at the attitude and speed it was trimmed for. Start losing speed and the pane will pitch down till it gains its original speed and levels out again. Start gaining speed and the plane will nose up and climb till it's back at that speed.

Now jetliners work on the same principle though most of the time in cruise it is the autopilot making all the adjustments not the pilot, unless he is hand flying it. Anyways, a plane is constantly adjusting trim, whether it's the pilot or autopilot, to maintain its attitude.