Chris's Wager

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The One True Rat

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Chris's Wager
« on: October 02, 2008, 02:43:21 PM »
I am currently working on a college research paper concerning the arguments of religion and atheism.
Whislt pondering a few things, i came to thinking of how Pascal's wager could be applied to other aspects of life.
I then remembered this forum, and here we are.

If you are unfamiliar with Pascal's wager, it is basically an argument that tries to evaluate the best possible choice in arguments that seem to be gaining little ground on each-other, using outcomes.
In other words, regardless of the correctness of an argument, we cant really "know" for certain, and therfore we must make a wager, based off of what we do know.

i have used Pascal's wager to create my own wager, based off of the conflict of RE vs FE. I have humbly called it chris's wager. if someone has already done this, i will gladly change the name.

My points are as follows:

If one choses to believe in FE they will lead a differnt life than those of the RE inclanation. They will have both positive and negitive experiences that will affect thier lives. Let us say that it is impossible to truly know what the earth is shaped like, and the individual wagers thier life on FE. Some of these effects are:
1)You know the truth, the truth that has illuded most others.  ;D
2)You are ridiculed, and questioned constantly by those who disagree with you.  >:(
3)You cannot fully participate in many scientific organizations, unless you give up your FE beliefes.   :(
4)You live in constant mistrust and/or fear of your govenment. This is because they have hidden FE from you, what else? You are also in danger of the government killing and/or silenceing you.  :-\
5)You still experience the same phenomena that RE-ers experience, such as a falling sensation, or night/day cycles.  8)

So, it seems that FE is a risky business. What if the individual wagers thier life on RE?
1)You are misled by your government, and do not know the truth. However, you think you do... :)
2)You may not even know that you are posssibly incorrect, and are never questioned... (until now)  :)
3)You accept most scientific explanations and can participate in RE science without giving up your beliefs.  :)
4)You trust your government, at least to some extent, and have no fear on those lines. This fear and trust are misplaced, as you are in danger of being killed or silenced if you find out the truth.   :-\
5)You experience the same thing that FE-ers experience, you just have different explanations for them.  8)

As you can see, i assumed FE for both situations, the points may be different when reversed.
My basic idea is this:
Those who accept RE seem to live better lives than those of FE acceptance.
If this is true, why believe in FE if it means that your life is going to be worse off? Is it pursuance of the truth? If this is true, then is knowing something that very few agree upon worth the struggle?

Questions? comments? angry rants?
If you think that i left a major point out for either side, let me know please.... and keep the ranting down... that goes for both RE and FE-ers. this discussion is intended to be mature.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 03:51:03 PM »
Pascal's Wager is shit.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 04:20:48 PM »
I apreciate the input, but "shit" is neither helpful nor an acceptable adjective.
Furthermore, we are not speaking of pascal. his wager does have major flaws, i agree...
But they are irrevelant.

Go to nationstates.net if you want to argue with atheists,
remember that "This forum is reserved for serious debate and discussion of Flat Earth theory."

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 04:23:28 PM »
I apreciate the input, but "shit" is neither helpful nor an acceptable adjective.
Furthermore, we are not speaking of pascal. his wager does have major flaws, i agree...
But they are irrevelant.

Go to nationstates.net if you want to argue with atheists,
remember that "This forum is reserved for serious debate and discussion of Flat Earth theory."

Our understanding of the truth should never be influenced by which theory benefits us the most.  Have you applied Chris's Wager to Galileo's proclamation that the earth revolves around the sun?  ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 04:31:58 PM »
I have not,
but as a RE-er i find it somewhat inconvienient to belive in FE. Sure, evern if you guys are right in the end, i can at least sleep at night knowing that I am not being decieved.

Also, the sun/earth rotation paradigm shift completely turned around modern science. We were no longer the center of the universe, and people began to think that god didnt make the world reveolve around us.

The FE/RE conflict would not change as many things...

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2008, 04:36:06 PM »
Also, the sun/earth rotation paradigm shift completely turned around modern science. We were no longer the center of the universe, and people began to think that god didnt make the world reveolve around us.

Right.  Do you think it would have benefited Galileo more, at the time, to proclaim that the earth revolves around the sun, or to keep his mouth shut?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 04:44:18 PM »
Historically, we can say that he would have been better off if he kept his mouth shut.
Just as it was better for anyone who heard him not to believe him.

But we arent talking about religion-enforced science that has only biblical proof
Modern science has a good deal of proof(i know, its questionable. but so is yours) and going against hundreds of years of this proof seems illogical. and it makes things harder on us, if we choose to do so.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 04:47:30 PM »
We should not base our understanding of the truth on whether it benefits us.  That's dangerous.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 04:57:37 PM »
Its not that it will simply beniefit me to remain consistant with RE,
it is that very little will change if i accept FE. accept for the fact that i will now be riduculed, scared, and angry....


And you are right, truth should not be judged by its usefulness.
this is why the wager only applies to situations of questionable truth.
It is equally possibly true that RE is correct, one side cannot be proven over the other.

If you guys want to say your beliefs at a risk in the same fashion as galileo, more power to you. but i cannot believe you.

Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 04:58:46 PM »
thats funny that our names are so similar, im sphereman not sphere man for anyone who is wondering. i think that the wager thing is another way to look at it but maybe not the best. do you fe'ers just believe the earth is flat to be rebels or what because its fairly obvious based on physics (im an expert, High school senior in AP physics) that the earth is as round as a ball just like any other object in the sky that is our size. why would we be the only one that is flat and how would satilites work if the earth was flat?

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 05:05:12 PM »
haha, that is a strange coincidence.
And to answer your questions for them,
they think satalites dont exist... and yes they do believe all this stuff.

i know it isnt the best way to look at it, but i wanted to make an original post that wasnt full of:
"READ THE FAQ NOOB"

so this idea came up, and  think that it is mostly relevant.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 05:08:50 PM by sphere_man »

Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2008, 05:20:07 PM »
Your/Pascal's wager is retarded.

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 05:38:43 PM »
once again, thank you for the input.
but i will say to you what i said to roundy.
"retarded" is neither helpful nor is it an acceptable adjective.

now, if you truly feel the need for insults, please have a follow-up for your reasoning.

Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2008, 05:41:02 PM »
Roundy's explanation was more than adequate; truth is truth regardless of any consequences. Get out of here with your opportunistic bullshit.

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 05:44:41 PM »
i agree with you, please read my posts...
i said that the truth expressed here is questionable.
We cannot know that either of us are correct, so dont defend your ideas simply becasue they are the truth.
becasue it is possible that they are not.

only in this truth obscurity can my wager work.

Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2008, 05:49:07 PM »
No, it's still just taking the easy route for the creature comforts with no respect for the scientific method at all.

Fail.

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The One True Rat

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2008, 05:53:10 PM »
i am not discussing sceince, i am discussing the philosophical meanings of FE.
and arent the guys who accept RE also the ones who created the scientific method?


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Parsifal

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Re: Chris's Wager
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 06:38:44 PM »
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.