Read This Then Get Back To Me

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Read This Then Get Back To Me
« on: May 23, 2006, 01:48:37 PM »
"name         Ann
status       student
age          14

Question -   Can you give one undisputable answer to:
"Is the earth round, and how do we prove it."
Because we are having a debate in my class, and the teacher kept saying
'the earth is flat'  And I have to give him one undisputable answer.
------------------------------------------------
I may be wrong about this, but I think your teacher is trying to
demonstrate to you that anything and everything is open to dispute.  In
fact, a rather famous theorem in the philosophy of science, the Duhem-Quine
theorem, states that it is impossible to conclusively disprove any
scientific hypothesis.  That includes such hypotheses as the earth is flat,
photography steals the soul of the object being photographed, and apples
are highly toxic to humans.  To hold on to such hypotheses, it may be
necessary to put forth some rather farfetched explanations of what we can
observe, but it can always be done.

In fact, science does not work by conclusively and indisputably refuting
bad hypotheses.  Instead, hypotheses stand or fail on their ability to
explain known observations, and to predict the outcome of observations that
haven't been performed yet.  Let's take the flat earth versus round earth
hypotheses as an example.  A round earth is the most stable shape according
to gravitational theory; a flat earth would tend to collapse toward the
center, and people standing near the edges would feel a gravitational pull
toward the center of the flat surface instead of perpendicular to the
surface.  Your teacher could counter that gravitational theory is wrong;
magic holds us to the earth.  This may be true, but it doesn't explain why
gravitational theory works so well at explaining how things fall, and the
observed trajectories of the planets and their moons.  You could tell your
teacher that photographs of the earth from space show that it is round,
just like the globe model in your classroom.  He could counter that those
photographs are government fakes.  Perhaps so, but we can see that other
planets and moons are round;  wouldn't it make more sense to say that the
earth is round, too?  Your teacher could say that the earth is special and
different.  You could ask how numerous people have sailed or flown around
the earth if the earth is flat.  He would have to say that every one of
these people, separated as they are in time and space, belongs to the same
great conspiracy aimed at brainwashing us into supposing that the earth is
round.  You could ask him about the communications networks that are linked
by satellite - how can you have satellites orbiting a flat earth?  He might
then tell you that there really aren't any satellite links - everything is
connected by wires, or a close-packed array of relay antennas.

We could go on and on, and I bet that in your classroom you HAVE gone on
and on.  As you see, there is no single fact  you could tell your teacher
that he couldn't dispute in some way.  If you step back and look at it,
though,what kind of world would it have to be if your teacher were right?
Gravity doesn't function here like it does everywhere else in the solar
system, there's a huge conspiracy reaching across hundreds of years to
convince us (for no apparent reason) that the earth is round instead of
flat, the progression of the seasons, and even of day and night, are
controlled by the gods.  Eventually, a reasonable person would have to
concede that it would make a lot more sense to agree that the earth is
indeed round.

There are some other theories to explain things that do not meet this test
of scientific reasonableness, yet are still put forth and defended by many
people in society.  This example of the flat earth hypothesis lets you see
how difficult it is to change someone's mind when they're set on some
strange or unrealistic theory.  It also lets you see that just if a theory
"can't be disproven" doesn't necessarily mean that it is correct, or that
it should be taken seriously for very long.

No matter what the Nebraska School Board says.


Richard Barrans Jr., Ph.D."




"2. Eratosthanes (276-195(?) BCE) did a famous experiment on measuring the
angle of the sun at noon in Alexandria, Egypt, and in Syrene.  Finding the
difference in the angles and knowing the distance between the two points,
the circumference can be calculated.  He calculated the circumference in
stadia, which we do not know the conversion to our present day measure."


Taken from http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99427.htm
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Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2006, 03:55:26 PM »
What?

No one has any more Bullshit evidence to lay on this one?


I suggest you make this a sticky.
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6strings

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Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2006, 05:31:32 PM »
No, your first point was essentially just a resume of Hume, while assuming that Occam's razor applies to nearly everything, while your second has been dealt with somewhere or another (just search the subject).  It's just that this gets dealt with a lot, so we end up just ignoring them a lot of the time.

Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2006, 05:39:36 PM »
For The record,

I didn't write it.

I thought That would be kind of obvious after I wrote "Taken from ...."


I don't know if that technically makes it my point if I didn't write it.

I just agree with it.
 I Feel Like A One-Legged Man In An Ass Kicking Contest

Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2006, 08:52:24 PM »
I like the way this one is written anyway
 I Feel Like A One-Legged Man In An Ass Kicking Contest

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Demosthenes

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Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 08:02:33 AM »
He did not in fact write this, and it has an excellent point.

Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2006, 01:23:51 PM »
Haven't read it?


Read it
 I Feel Like A One-Legged Man In An Ass Kicking Contest

Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 03:28:53 PM »
You still haven't read it have you?
 I Feel Like A One-Legged Man In An Ass Kicking Contest

Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 05:51:21 PM »
1 year old bump
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 06:05:42 PM »
lol

It almost looks like it supports the contention that the world may, indeed, be flat, the way that I'm reading it.  ;D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 06:10:31 PM »
Then you lack a critical amount of brain matter or eyes.

Ever been told that you should read everything then consider it?

Or just half of it and look like a retard when you try to speak on the subject.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 07:45:48 PM »
Then you lack a critical amount of brain matter or eyes.

You're right on both counts.   :(  About five years ago I was in an accident that demolished 75% of the left side of my head.  This included a good portion of my brain and my entire left eye.  Or was it my right eye?  I CAN'T EVEN TELL THE DIFFERENCE!!!
 
Maybe you should think about your wording before you say something that may dredge up a painful memory, Shaggy.   :'(
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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cmdshft

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 07:52:46 PM »
Then you lack a critical amount of brain matter or eyes.

Ever been told that you should read everything then consider it?

Or just half of it and look like a retard when you try to speak on the subject.

This post is an example of what you were trying to point out in this very post.

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giddsey

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 07:54:42 PM »
this is the first body of text i have read here, all the way through, without getting either bored or confused or just blatently not understanding.
i think the point has been well made, so thank you.
I have developed a fancy to tickle giddsey and see if he giggles.

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JackASCII

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2007, 08:43:13 AM »
Personally, I'd rather talk to the person that wrote the article rather. Good article.
Yes, quite.  No one would ever claim to be someone they're not in their profile name.

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Bushido

Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2007, 09:42:18 AM »
Because we are having a debate in my class, and the teacher kept saying
'the earth is flat'.

Is your teacher by any chance Gensesis 9:13, Ann?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2007, 12:16:52 PM »
I remember him.   ;D
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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RENTAKOW

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2007, 12:02:14 AM »
Personally I disagree with "Anything is open to dispute and every point can be countered.". If something cannot be proven on either side of the fence, it is irrelevant, and can no longer be disputed. Example: Gravity holds us to the earth, says the RE'er. Acceleration holds us to the earth, says the FE'er. Neither of these statements can be proven correct or incorrect*. With that, both statements have made the other wrong, with no chance of recovery. On the other hand, their are many points (in any debate) that cannot be countered by the other party. Example: Their is a South Celestial Pole, says the RE'er. No their isn- Er... your right, their is a South Celestial Pole, says the FE'er. Their is no possible way to dispute the existence of the Celestial South Pole (which supports the first part of this.). The FE party, thus, cannot continue the debate and RE is automatically proven correct, because it has proven fact to support it**.
* Perhaps this is a bad example, because gravity has been proven to exist in anything with matter. The same cannot be said about UA (less the EXISTENCE of UA).
** This simplified example is ignoring all other factors of the FE Vs. RE debate. Of which, ALL can be explained with the RE model, FE cannot explain any, because factors that are explained by the FE are also explained by the RE model. Which makes them irrelevant.

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Midnight

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2007, 09:06:37 AM »
Interesting thread. Meaningless responses.
My problem with his ideas is that it is a ridiculous thing.

Genius. PURE, undiluted genius.

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BOGWarrior89

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Re: Read This Then Get Back To Me
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2007, 10:11:58 AM »
Interesting thread. Meaningless responses.

I think 6strings' post was meaningful.