The LAWLESS ONE is REVEALED…....The Great Falling Away.

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Wendy

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2008, 12:45:26 AM »
You can see that I'm a man as much on my avatar as you can see that Osama is a man on his. My avatar is Fred Durst. Also, it says nowhere that God is male in the bible, and the word for 'man' in hebrew is the same as the word for 'human'. Adam was the first human created in the likeness of God, but God saw that mankind wasn't finished, and created Eve to complete humanity. At least, that's what a woman priest told me, when I brought that up.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2008, 06:40:16 AM »

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This is why everything from the bible should be not considered as inspired or Holy and all characters are subjected to being falsified without exceptions.

Yeah that's true but we Muslims believe that there was a Prophet called Jesus and he asked the people to worship Allah (Almighty God) alone and he was given a book called "Enjeel" which has been changed over the years by the humans. So some of the God's original words are there while many got changed and corrupted.

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Your making GOD out to be WEAK, is this the same GOD who made the Sun & the Moon? Are we talking about the same GOD that made the Earth, then took some of that piled up dry stuff and pulled Adam out of it? Because if its not we are talking about different Gods, my GOD is the CREATOR, my GOD is powerful enough to protect a little Book.

I am not trying to convert you or anything but I am sure if you read the Quran even once it will answer all of your question, because your asking exactly the same question I used to ask many years ago. Dear Punisher the Enjeel, Turah, Zaboor...etc were not protected because it wasn't the RESPONSIBILITY OF GOD to protect it. God made it clear to Moses and the Jews, see follow the Turah and it's your responsibility to protect it but they failed. The same thing with the Bible or other old books. Finally when God decided to send the last Prophet and messenger "Prophet Mohammed" he gave him the manual the instruction of life "The Quran" and since this is the last warning and message to humans if this has been changed or corrupted humanity is doomed, that's why the wise Almighty God clarified that this time: "ITS HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY" to protect his book till the day of judgment. That's why for more than 14 centuries many studies been started to find only 1 SINGLE contradiction or mistake in the Quran HOWEVER THEY ALL FAILED!!!!!! because it's God's protection. Allah said in the Quran

Those who disbelieve in the Reminder - the Qur'an - when it has come to them are the losers. And truly, it is a mighty Book. Falsehood cannot approach it either from before it nor from behind it. It is a revelation from the Wise, the Praiseworthy.

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If he was the Messiah, why did he not establish the Kingdom of GOD for all scriptures point to that when the Messiah (the Christ would appear) there He would make peace with all nations and all inequities disappear, neither shall sin be named there for ever and for ever?

Simply because Jesus wasn't sent to all creations, unlike the last messenger Mohammed peace be Upon him. Jesus was sent to a nation or group of people, like Moses he was sent to people of Israel, like Abraham, Noah...etc while Mohammed was sent to all.

In addition to that who said Jesus is dead he will not come back. In Islam we have a clear prophecy by Prophet Mohammed that Jesus will come back at the end of days and will kill the "Anti-Christ" and maybe your talking about that time when he will make peace...etc

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He wrote them before while traveling in the desert placed them with the other Books of Enoch and the commands.

Looool so your admitting that Moses is using a strange language. Moses died and god took him...etc while he was alive, loool Moses was really amazing then ^_^

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If he was sent by GOD his word would be protected.

Read above.

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This is what your afraid off, this is what you protect the Koran which took characters that by your own admission came from a book that isn't completely true, therefore, partially false, so you now have a Book by Mohammed that contains this name Jesus. What do you do? You tell yourself and others that the bad stuff written about Jesus wasn't from Jesus, that Allah couldn't protect that book, Allah had to re-write a new book. No my brother, GOD does everything ONCE and its perfect, and HE protects that perfection like the Book of Enoch.....

LoooooL no dear the Quran clarify the old people mistakes and fulfilling the eternal message to creations that there is only one god and worship him. Quran denied many of the things the Jews or the Christians claimed like insulting god, getting tired, having son...etc The Quran said that Jesus was sent by God he gave his people the same message so Allah is proving what really happened before because we humans can never know. Allah said it clearly in the Quran the protection of the old books wasn't his responsibility it was the responsibility of the people. While the Quran it's his own protection. The Book of Enoch already did insulted god by saying he have son and your still saying it's the perfect book? Ask anyone here what should be the "Attributes" of a real "Almighty God" :) while the Quran they never found a mistake, they cannot find it now also and they would never find a single mistake in the coming 1000004056436884832882 years :)

I would like to ask you again, did you read the Quran?
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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britishgent

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2008, 06:58:04 AM »
i think you will finf that it does have internal contradictions (the book/disjointed-scriptures of enoch not the Quran)

Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of 19 angels who lead the fall of man.

Enoch 69:2-3 gives a list of 21 angels who were supposed to be the same group. Not only are there more... the names are nearly entirely different!

not a huge find but it didn't take long
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2008, 11:02:35 AM »

Yeah that's true but we Muslims believe that there was a Prophet called Jesus and he asked the people to worship Allah (Almighty God) alone and he was given a book called "Enjeel" which has been changed over the years by the humans. So some of the God's original words are there while many got changed and corrupted.

My friend you like confusion, I don't. If we want to know about Jesus we must go to the source (Bible). If Allah wasn't able to protect his Word (Bible), Allah was weak in that moment. Now, because it has been changed, nothing and anything that comes from that book (Bible) including the characters must be dismissed, and one must go further back to an older source for guidance not forwards.


RESPONSIBILITY OF GOD to protect it.

So the all-knowing Allah did not know that men would corrupt scriptures until thousands of years later as the confirmation?
No my brother, the ALL-KNOWING CREATOR knew this from the very beginning.

1Enoch.104:[7]Now will I point out a mystery: Many sinners shall turn and transgress against the word of uprightness. (Book Of Enoch) [8]They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood; execute great undertakings; and compose books in their own words. (Bible-Koran) But when they shall write all My words correctly in their own languages, [9]They shall neither change or diminish them; but shall write them all correctly; all which from the first I have uttered concerning them.

No counterfeits, all the Books bearing the name of Enoch are governed by the Hand Of GOD. The Covenant (Book Of Enoch) consisting of 5 sections which by the way the Jews and the Muslims copied from for their Pentateuch and the five pillars of Islam (oldest Dead Sea Scrolls are Enoch‘s). Can you see the consistency? Its unbelievable!


God made it clear to Moses and the Jews, see follow the Turah and it's your responsibility to protect it but they failed. The same thing with the Bible or other old books.

Not the Book Of Enoch, for this Book is the Book of GOD that HE protected when it was first written during the days that Adam still walked the Earth, the first generation of people, of creation which would make True GOD consistent with everyone, giving everybody the same knowledge and the same opportunity, unchanging..


Finally when God decided to send the last Prophet and messenger "Prophet Mohammed" he gave him the manual the instruction of life "The Quran" and since this is the last warning and message to humans if this has been changed or corrupted humanity is doomed, that's why the wise Almighty God clarified that this time: "ITS HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY" to protect his book till the day of judgment. That's why for more than 14 centuries many studies been started to find only 1 SINGLE contradiction or mistake in the Quran HOWEVER THEY ALL FAILED!!!!!! because it's God's protection. Allah said in the Quran

1Enoch.89:[25]Then I saw, that the man, who wrote the book at the word of the Lord, opened the book of destruction, of that destruction which the last twelve shepherds wrought; and pointed out before the Lord of the sheep, that they destroyed more than those who preceded them.

the last twelve shepherds wrought
the last twelve shepherds wrought

The last 12 shepherds are the 12 Apostles, the ALL-KNOWING GOD knew the Devil would corrupt the 12 Apostles and destroy many in the process who believed that religion and the one that followed, for that one too is false, because being the last 12 shepherds means that no other shepherd comes afterwards.


Simply because Jesus wasn't sent to all creations, unlike the last messenger Mohammed peace be Upon him. Jesus was sent to a nation or group of people, like Moses he was sent to people of Israel, like Abraham, Noah...etc while Mohammed was sent to all.

The gospel of Jesus went forth by the sword like Islam to all nations, read your history...


Looool so your admitting that Moses is using a strange language. Moses died and god took him...etc while he was alive, loool Moses was really amazing then ^_^

If it comes from the Bible or any other text other then the Book Of Enoch one must have a discerning eye for the truth to navigate through the contradictions and the lies, to acquire this eye one must align his/her eye with the Absolute Truth, only then will you be able to differentiate between the lie and the fact, this alignment can only be achieve by reading first and foremost the Book of GOD (Enoch).


This is what your afraid off, this is what you protect the Koran which took characters that by your own admission came from a book that isn't completely true, therefore, partially false, so you now have a Book by Mohammed that contains this name Jesus. What do you do? You tell yourself and others that the bad stuff written about Jesus wasn't from Jesus, that Allah couldn't protect that book, Allah had to re-write a new book. No my brother, GOD does everything ONCE and its perfect, and HE protects that perfection like the Book of Enoch.....
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The Book of Enoch already did insulted god by saying he have son and your still saying it's the perfect book? Ask anyone here what should be the "Attributes" of a real "Almighty God" :) while the Quran they never found a mistake, they cannot find it now also and they would never find a single mistake in the coming 1000004056436884832882 years :)

My brother that in itself is a mistake, that you do not perceive the Father of ALL creation as your CREATOR, as your Father. Why do you call the man who made you "father" but the ONE who made ALL not? Didn't your father provide for you when you were too young and incapable of making provisions? Doesn't our Father in Heaven provide still today for us the air we breath? You call that "insult" I call it respect. To each his own....


I would like to ask you again, did you read the Quran?

I have read some of the chapters but not the book in totality, and because from the above mentioned I know and understand that book (Koran) to be not from GOD but a good read to find the inconsistencies even after men carefully skimmed them to deceive. But only the one who possess a discerning eye acquired by reading the Absolute Truth the Book Of Enoch can exercise themselves in finding the needle in the haystack.

Your God Allah doesn't give you free-will, that's not my CREATOR, my GOD created us all to choose between how we want to live and be and these choices all come with consequences, some are good, some are bad.

2Enoch.30:[13]I called his name Adam, and showed him the two ways, the light and the darkness, and I told him: [14]This is good, and that bad, that I should learn whether he has love towards me, or hatred, that it be clear which in his race love me.

You see my brother True GOD gives you free-will, the Devil doesn't.

[7.186] Whomsoever Allah causes to err, there is no guide for him; and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.

Whomsoever Allah causes to err
Whomsoever Allah causes to err


This is a lie, these are the Fallen angels that deceive and let those who believe that book (Koran) think that it is GOD causing them to wander into abominable lifestyles, and therefore, making those people feel helpless that its GOD that is doing this to them and that no-one can possibly go against the will of GOD (Allah) and they remain in sin.

2Enoch.30:[15]And I said After sin what is there but death?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 12:09:55 PM by Punisher »

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2008, 11:11:26 AM »
i think you will finf that it does have internal contradictions (the book/disjointed-scriptures of enoch not the Quran)

Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of 19 angels who lead the fall of man.

Enoch 69:2-3 gives a list of 21 angels who were supposed to be the same group. Not only are there more... the names are nearly entirely different!

not a huge find but it didn't take long

No friend its not huge at all for its completely wrong, and more incredible is that no-one actual verified to see if it were true.
You people really don't question anything, you have all become a by-product of the system, made not to think (but were created intelligent), made not to connect with your spiritual self (although your souls come from Heaven).


Chapter 6

[1]They consider how the trees, when they put forth their green leaves, become covered, and produce fruit; understanding everything, and knowing that He who lives for ever does all these things for you:

[2]That the works at the beginning of every existing year, that all his works, are subservient to him, and invariable; yet as God has appointed, so are all things brought to pass.

[3]They see, too, how the seas and the rivers together complete their respective operations:

[4]But you endure not patiently, nor fulfill the commandments of the Lord; but you transgress and calumniate his greatness; and malignant are the words in your polluted mouths against his Majesty.

[5]You withered in heart, no peace shall be to you!

[6]Therefore your days shall you curse, and the years of your lives shall perish; perpetual execration shall be multiplied, and you shall not obtain mercy.

[7]In those days shall you resign your peace with the eternal maledictions of all the righteous, and sinners shall perpetually execrate you;

[8]Shall execrate you with the ungodly.

[9]The elect shall possess light, joy, and peace; and they shall inherit the earth.

[10]But you, you unholy, shall be accursed.

[11]Then shall wisdom be given to the elect, all of whom shall live, and not again transgress by impiety or pride; but shall humble themselves, possessing prudence, and shall not repeat transgression.

[12]They shall not be condemned the whole period of their lives, not die in torment and indignation; but the sum of their days shall be completed, and they shall grow old in peace; while the years of their happiness shall be multiplied with joy, and with peace, for ever, the whole duration of their existence.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:57:53 AM by Punisher »

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AbdulAziz

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2008, 11:39:25 AM »
I am sorry but it seems you really didn't understand what I wrote, I will try to explain more and comment on what you have said. However by fast-reading it seemed to me you have so many misconception :)

By the way, did you read my posts in the "Free Will" topic about the concept of Free will in my religion? that's why I keep repeating you should read the Quran, just reading few pages where people try to show the Quran supposed to have contradictions is not enough :) read it all.

However still I will reply to what you have said
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2008, 11:53:40 AM »

By the way, did you read my posts in the "Free Will" topic about the concept of Free will in my religion? that's why I keep repeating you should read the Quran, just reading few pages where people try to show the Quran supposed to have contradictions is not enough :) read it all.

Why don't you post what your religion says of free-will, you already have that which GOD says about it in the reply I submitted to you.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:57:03 AM by Punisher »

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Wendy

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2008, 12:25:04 PM »
You can see that I'm a man as much on my avatar as you can see that Osama is a man on his. My avatar is Fred Durst. Also, it says nowhere that God is male in the bible, and the word for 'man' in hebrew is the same as the word for 'human'. Adam was the first human created in the likeness of God, but God saw that mankind wasn't finished, and created Eve to complete humanity. At least, that's what a woman priest told me, when I brought that up.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

?

AbdulAziz

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2008, 05:15:01 PM »

And proclaim: "Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Verily, falsehood is bound to vanish."
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My friend you like confusion, I don't. If we want to know about Jesus we must go to the source (Bible).

Your blaming Jesus for a sin he didn't commit? suppose I lived with you 5 years back, I said: "Oh Punisher, Our God is One God" and after 20 years you wrote a book and said: "Oh Humans, AbdulAziz said There are 3 Gods, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost" can you say it's my fault? or it was my mistake or I am the devil because of a sin I didn't commit? MAN, at least give it some thoughts ^_^

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If Allah wasn't able to protect his Word (Bible), Allah was weak in that moment.

That's because it was the responsibility of the people not the Almighty Allah! How many times I should repeat? I am ready to copy and paste all the time if you want to keep this going but I prefer if you stand and read carefully. If a God by any chance became a weak in any moment he doesn't deserve to be considered almighty god, but too bad my god Allah "THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM"

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Now, because it has been changed, nothing and anything that comes from that book (Bible) including the characters must be dismissed, and one must go further back to an older source for guidance not forwards.

That's also wrong, going back to the example I gave earlier, suppose I gave you a book and in that book I said there is only god and I am his servent, then after so many years you changed this book and modified the word "His servent" to "His king" now the first part remain correct that there is only one god but the second part is wrong, does it mean there is nothing right in that book? that's why we Muslims believe that the Turah and the other books have some correct information while it has also the wrong so that's why we cannot depend on this book as a guidance.

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So the all-knowing Allah did not know that men would corrupt scriptures until thousands of years later as the confirmation?

No I never said this, but it's your explanation for what I said. Allah knows everything, he knows when we will all die and will be the day of judgment and all of our decisions...etc however the same way he created life and death to put us in trial to worship him the same he gave the book to people to test them and on the day of judgment he say: "Didn't I send you a book? didn't I ask you to protect it, didn't I sent Mohammed, Jesus, Noah....etc" why you ignored, changed their teachings...etc in Arabic we call this "Hojja" I don't know the exact English word but it's like a trial and prove. Allah knew that Jesus would appear and he knew that Christians would follow him, why he would allow such a thing? Allah gave you the ability to think, the power, the equipments to reach the truth then why you didn't try. That's why in Islam Allah would not punish the Insane or the one who die when he is child...etc

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they shall utter falsehood; execute great undertakings; and compose books in their own words. (Bible-Koran)

No dear, there is nothing wrong in the Quran and no contradictions at all, your welcome to post all your "Supposed Contradiction" here in this topic http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23513.0 but be sure that the words of Allah would suites you >>> " look again, and yet again, thy sight will only return unto thee confused and fatigued, having seen no incongruity."

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The gospel of Jesus went forth by the sword like Islam to all nations, read your history...

The thing is I know my history very well but at the same time I know the history of the major religions of the world including their scriptures :) the all got perished but only one truth would remain till the end of the world

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Why do you call the man who made you "father" but the ONE who made ALL not?

YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ARE YOU!!!!!!? O_O

THE MOMENT YOU CAN COMPARE A GOD WITH ANYTHING ELSE He is not God. Because the attributes of God shouldn't be like any other, he cannot be compared with anything else if he got compared thats an insult, that's why Allah clearly states several times in the Quran that the people insulting him when they are saying he is having son or calling him father of the angels....etc

"Say `He is ALLAH, the One! ALLAH the Independent and Besought of all. HE begets not, nor, is HE begotten, And there is none like unto HIM."

>>>



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Your God Allah doesn't give you free-will

That alone proves you didn't read the Quran, man you should read and try hard focusing while reading :) as for the verse you copied talking about the humans being bad, if he continued being bad he will rapidly be doing these things till his heart becomes black and he would never accept the right way like for example our dear friend "Athalus" :)

"Have WE not given him two eyes, And a tongue and two lips ? And WE have pointed out to him the two highways of good and evil."

There are many other verses proving that he gave us free will... Humans do have free will but it's going exactly as the Almighty God accepted. God gave humans the free will to chose the right or the bad path, he showed him the two ways, he guided humans what is write what is wrong. So now Humans can choose whatever they want and Allah because he is the Just he already gave humans what he chose. Allah already knows what every human will chose, everything about him, what he will be eating, drinking...etc and according to this knowledge before the creation of human who wrote it in the fate, according to the decisions of the human. If Allah didn't give the humans the free will he could have changed their decisions the one who created them can change their ways of life but no god wrote whatever they are choosing. For example if I did bad thing and things that angers my god, because of Allah being just he wrote what I would be doing in the future without changing it, the same thing if I did a good thing, Allah wrongs not anyone even so much as the weight of an atom. In conclusion Humans do have free will and its going according to what is written in fate thanks to Allah's knowledge and just.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 09:44:54 PM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2008, 10:09:50 AM »

My friend you like confusion, I don't. If we want to know about Jesus we must go to the source (Bible).
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Your blaming Jesus for a sin he didn't commit? suppose I lived with you 5 years back, I said: "Oh Punisher, Our God is One God" and after 20 years you wrote a book and said: "Oh Humans, AbdulAziz said There are 3 Gods, The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost" can you say it's my fault? or it was my mistake or I am the devil because of a sin I didn't commit? MAN, at least give it some thoughts ^_^

You make no sense brother, confusion has gripped you, follow your own train of thought. You're saying Jesus didn't say the bad things in the Bible, nor the contradictions or what Islam perceives as a lie. How do you know? What if Jesus spoke nothing but the evil and the lies, and the good stuff was written in by the humans? Just like you, who would be so eager to do so. You either accept everything, or nothing of it is inspired, and you must go further back to the source until you find the original.


If Allah wasn't able to protect his Word (Bible), Allah was weak in that moment.
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That's because it was the responsibility of the people not the Almighty Allah! How many times I should repeat? I am ready to copy and paste all the time if you want to keep this going but I prefer if you stand and read carefully. If a God by any chance became a weak in any moment he doesn't deserve to be considered almighty god, but too bad my god Allah "THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM"

You're going to repeat it until you understand what you're saying. Your Allah did not know that the people would become irresponsible and not keep the word Holy. Only after many thousands of years did Allah understand this and decided to send the final prophet and protect that word (Koran).


Now, because it has been changed, nothing and anything that comes from that book (Bible) including the characters must be dismissed, and one must go further back to an older source for guidance not forwards.
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That's also wrong, going back to the example I gave earlier, suppose I gave you a book and in that book I said there is only god and I am his servent, then after so many years you changed this book and modified the word "His servent" to "His king" now the first part remain correct that there is only one god but the second part is wrong, does it mean there is nothing right in that book? that's why we Muslims believe that the Turah and the other books have some correct information while it has also the wrong so that's why we cannot depend on this book as a guidance.

It means that you must go further back to the source of this story, the one who write the story first is the Author of that story. Enoch is the author this story about GOD and Angels and Heaven and Satan and Adam and Noah and Judgment and Resurrection and all of it still intact and uncorrupted by the hands of humans.


So the all-knowing Allah did not know that men would corrupt scriptures until thousands of years later as the confirmation?
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No I never said this, but it's your explanation for what I said. Allah knows everything, he knows when we will all die and will be the day of judgment and all of our decisions...etc

If Allah knew that men would corrupt the Word (Jesus), why would Allah have let it happen? For we know Allah changed his mind latter on in 600 AD when he said I'll send Mohammed to write the Koran and I Allah will protect it now. Is it because Allah did not want the people who lived before Mohammed to know the ways of Allah? Or is the Koran contradicting itself?

[48.23] Such has been the course of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah's course.

and you shall not find a change in Allah's course.
and you shall not find a change in Allah's course.


however the same way he created life and death to put us in trial to worship him the same he gave the book to people to test them and on the day of judgment he say: "Didn't I send you a book? didn't I ask you to protect it, didn't I sent Mohammed, Jesus, Noah....etc" why you ignored, changed their teachings...etc in Arabic we call this "Hojja" I don't know the exact English word but it's like a trial and prove.

1Enoch.89:[33]First came on the trial of the stars, which, being judged, and found guilty, went to the place of punishment.
They thrust them into a place, deep, and full of flaming fire, and full of pillars of fire. Then the seventy shepherds were judged, and being found guilty, were thrust into the flaming abyss.

Then the seventy shepherds were judged, and being found guilty, were thrust into the abyss.

These are the ones who falsified the old testament, and afterwards the last 12 shepherds, not 13, 12.

1Enoch.104:[7]Now will I point out a mystery: Many sinners shall turn and transgress against the word of uprightness. (Book Of Enoch) [8]They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood; execute great undertakings; and compose books in their own words. (Bible-Koran) But when they shall write all My words correctly in their own languages, [9]They shall neither change or diminish them; but shall write them all correctly; all which from the first I have uttered concerning them.

No counterfeits, all the Books bearing the name of Enoch are governed by the Hand Of GOD. The Covenant (Book Of Enoch) consisting of 5 sections which by the way the Jews and the Muslims copied from for their Pentateuch and the five pillars of Islam (oldest Dead Sea Scrolls are Enoch‘s). Can you see it now? Its unbelievable!


Allah knew that Jesus would appear and he knew that Christians would follow him, why he would allow such a thing?
Allah gave you the ability to think, the power, the equipments to reach the truth then why you didn't try. That's why in Islam Allah would not punish the Insane

I agree that GOD gave the ability to think despite the forces of the Fallen angels (Satans) or as Islam calls them (Shaitans), but where you go wrong is that the "equipment" was only made available after 600 AD, so Allah can't Judge the people living before by saying I have given you the equipment (Koran).


they shall utter falsehood; execute great undertakings; and compose books in their own words. (Bible-Koran)
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No dear, there is nothing wrong in the Quran and no contradictions at all, your welcome to post all your "Supposed Contradiction" here in this topic http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23513.0 but be sure that the words of Allah would suites you >>> " look again, and yet again, thy sight will only return unto thee confused and fatigued, having seen no incongruity."

I beg to differ, Islam says its the religion of Peace, Allah says otherwise. [21.80] And We taught him the making of coats of mail for you, that they might protect you in your wars; will you then be grateful? True GOD did not create us for wars, but to remain in unity with Him in peace. Surely Allah if he were GOD would be capable of this, and despite that there would come invaders for these would dealt harshly by Allah, for they oppose him.

[59.4] That is because they acted in opposition to Allah and His Apostle, and whoever acts in opposition to Allah, then surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil). [59.5] It is by Allah's command, and that He may abase the transgressors. These would be quickly addressed by Allah so that peace and tranquility among his people would be uninterrupted without so much as an arrow being launched, or in today's society, a bullet, fired.

[59.23] He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).

the Giver of peace, the Granter of security
the Giver of peace, the Granter of security


The gospel of Jesus went forth by the sword like Islam to all nations, read your history...
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The thing is I know my history very well but at the same time I know the history of the major religions of the world including their scriptures :) the all got perished but only one truth would remain till the end of the world

That would be the Book Of Enoch, it was written during the first generation of men (Adam), and will remain unchanged like GOD and His promise, to, and up until the last generation of men.


Why do you call the man who made you "father" but the ONE who made ALL not?
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YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS ARE YOU!!!!!!? O_O

THE MOMENT YOU CAN COMPARE A GOD WITH ANYTHING ELSE He is not God. Because the attributes of God shouldn't be like any other, he cannot be compared with anything else if he got compared thats an insult, that's why Allah clearly states several times in the Quran that the people insulting him when they are saying he is having son or calling him father of the angels....etc

"Say `He is ALLAH, the One! ALLAH the Independent and Besought of all. HE begets not, nor, is HE begotten, And there is none like unto HIM."

I am very serious, and that you cannot call your CREATOR the "Father of all Creation" is astounding, and that even believing that the Most High would feel insulted that you cling to Him like a child does to a parent shows only that there is no love for Him, neither fear, of losing Him.


Your God Allah doesn't give you free-will
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That alone proves you didn't read the Quran, man you should read and try hard focusing while reading :) as for the verse you copied talking about the humans being bad, if he continued being bad he will rapidly be doing these things till his heart becomes black and he would never accept the right way like for example our dear friend "Athalus" :)

"Have WE not given him two eyes, And a tongue and two lips ? And WE have pointed out to him the two highways of good and evil."

There are many other verses proving that he gave us free will... Humans do have free will but it's going exactly as the Almighty God accepted. God gave humans the free will to chose the right or the bad path, he showed him the two ways, he guided humans what is write what is wrong. So now Humans can choose whatever they want and Allah because he is the Just he already gave humans what he chose. Allah already knows what every human will chose, everything about him, what he will be eating, drinking...etc and according to this knowledge before the creation of human who wrote it in the fate, according to the decisions of the human. If Allah didn't give the humans the free will he could have changed their decisions the one who created them can change their ways of life but no god wrote whatever they are choosing. For example if I did bad thing and things that angers my god, because of Allah being just he wrote what I would be doing in the future without changing it, the same thing if I did a good thing, Allah wrongs not anyone even so much as the weight of an atom. In conclusion Humans do have free will and its going according to what is written in fate thanks to Allah's knowledge and just.

The last paragraph you wrote are some nice words, you seem a to have close understanding of who GOD is, but this doesn't come from the Koran, this comes from within you, for the Koran contradicts itself and we both know GOD is consistent.

Allah gives no free-will, simply because Allah did not protect the word of Jesus so that the believers of Jesus would truly possess the Holy word and thus be able to choose between Good or Evil. But because the Word those people had was already contaminated (evil), those people had no choice according to your explanation as to why Allah allowed the bible to be contaminated, but not according to my explanation, for the Book Of Enoch was always and shall always be available so that choice (free-will) may exist.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 11:02:40 PM by Punisher »

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AbdulAziz

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2008, 10:35:08 AM »
I am so glad to see that you replied this is a chance to continue the debate. You know sometimes I feel you have the potential to be a Muslim that's because you dare to think using your own "Thinking" but surely your having some misconception about the Quran that's why you think it's contradiction or having a false teaching. As you always keep saying if you want to judge, judge the source not the follower and I will clear all the misconception your having about the Quran and the misconception of the "Attributes Of God" and only then you would realize that what I am saying is right and what your saying is close to be right! only then you would use your free will: "To accept the truth or deny it"  :)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 10:39:48 AM by AbdulAziz »
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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britishgent

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2008, 01:51:13 PM »
only the ethiopian translation was found in full with only fragments of earlier copies for comparison... and the internal contradiction i posted before is entirely true iv fully checked... the book of enoch is regarded as a novelty in theological circles as u are here punisher
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2008, 02:26:38 PM »
only the ethiopian translation was found in full with only fragments of earlier copies for comparison... and the internal contradiction i posted before is entirely true iv fully checked... the book of enoch is regarded as a novelty in theological circles as u are here punisher

You must post the source of that which you call internal contradiction for everyone to see where you have obtained this information, I await with great patience for I know I will be waiting a long long time for this source to arrive.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2008, 04:51:23 PM »

Quote
You make no sense brother, confusion has gripped you, follow your own train of thought. You're saying Jesus didn't say the bad things in the Bible, nor the contradictions or what Islam perceives as a lie. How do you know? What if Jesus spoke nothing but the evil and the lies, and the good stuff was written in by the humans? Just like you, who would be so eager to do so. You either accept everything, or nothing of it is inspired, and you must go further back to the source until you find the original.

No you didn't get me, I never said you can take them as Jesus words never I said it can't be Jesus words, what I am saying this book is not 100% god's book because of the so many contradictions, what I am saying if there is something against the Book of Enoch why you should think it's 100% Jesus' words and if it's going along with the Book Of Enoch why your 100% denying that's Jesus words. We cannot judge this book and who wrote it because of the so many contradictions. Now since your asking me why I am believing Jesus didn't say worship me, that's because a book [WITHOUT ANY CONTRADICTION] and our "Almighty God" clarified that his Prophet never said such a thing. Now you have to do two things, you must prove from a book without any contradiction and matches all the prophecies of the old books and prove that Jesus was evil and that doesn't contradicts, you cannot quote from the Bible that contradicts itself. So no matter what you would do you will not get the answer, the only answer you will find if it was from Jesus or not is through the real god (Allah) even if you dig a whole in the depths part of the earth or fly above the skies you would never be able to prove Jesus was evil from a book that contradicts itself.

Quote
nly after many thousands of years did Allah understand this and decided to send the final prophet and protect that word (Koran).

I told you before, this question is like asking God the one who knows all! "Oh god why did you do this" man you should know we are humans, we are given a limited amount of knowledge, we can never know what is the reasons for god? your asking a question that is like: "Why God created angels, satans!?" why god created life? why god created a camel with that face and the horse like that? just because your mind don't know what is god thinking it doesn't mean it's false!?

I have already said before, that between prophet Jesus and Prophet Mohammed they were still Daees (People who teach people about the right religion and the mission that is to worship Allah alone and none else) even the historians can prove it to you that at the time of Mohammed before he was sent they were Christians on the right path which is worshipping Allah alone! same goes between Moses and Jesus, god didn't send Jesus immediately after Moses because they were on the right track, but when they were following the wrong path god sent Jesus. And finally Prophet Mohammed.

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It means that you must go further back to the source of this story, the one who write the story first is the Author of that story. Enoch is the author this story about GOD and Angels and Heaven and Satan and Adam and Noah and Judgment and Resurrection and all of it still intact and uncorrupted by the hands of humans.

Nope that's again wrong, you said yourself that Enoch wrote the book of God but the last book which is Quran it's from the God himself his words, and besides that if we only need to follow the old then why God sent down Prophet Enoch in the first place, why he sent Moses, Abraham, Jesus...etc he sent because each time humans are following a wrong path he is sending someone to revert them back to the right path, the same thing goes with the Book. He maybe sent the book of Enoch to humans and after so many years people got misleaded so he sent other prophets and books like Moses and the Torah, Jesus and the Enjeel but finally god decided to end his message with the greatest prophet Mohammed peace Be Upon him and the book that is being protected by god himself which is known as the "Quran". The Enoch book doesn't have everything, while the Quran is instruction to life, stories of the past, future and the current.

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If Allah knew that men would corrupt the Word (Jesus), why would Allah have let it happen?

God of Enoch (Allah) knew that Satan would disobey him and would mislead people, then why in the first place he created them? and I already answered your question in my previous post

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I am very serious, and that you cannot call your CREATOR the "Father of all Creation"

That would mean the funniest thing, because the father means that he got son because he will be getting weak, someone else would take his place, someone having his own blood and it means he needs a son. All these are insults to the Almighty God. The son takes the attributes of the God according to the definition of son :)

As for the other parts I already answered you before and I already wrote some details in the "Free-Will" topic please refer back to them. If you still didn't get them or understand specefiy which part is not getting in your mind, and Insh Allah (If Allah wills) I will answer the other parts of your posts as well ^_^
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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britishgent

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2008, 09:06:08 AM »
http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&id=Y_5XsUkRI50C&dq=enoch&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=Xgn9B9_BF1&sig=B11lXDMizZPdYOl7H5RM_0M-aZA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPR1,M1

and again

Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of 19 angels who lead the fall of man.

Enoch 69:2-3 gives a list of 21 angels who were supposed to be the same group
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

?

britishgent

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2008, 09:10:21 AM »
this is fairly interesting too... Scholars agree that the Book of Henoch was originally composed either in Hebrew or Aramaic, and that the Ethiopic version was derived from a Greek one. A comparison of the Ethiopic text with the Akhmîn Greek fragment proves that the former is in general a trustworthy translation. The work is a compilation, and its component parts were written in Palestine by Jews of the orthodox Hasidic or Pharisaic schools. Its composite character appears clearly from the palpable differences in eschatology, in the views of the origin of sin and of the character and importance of the Messias found in portions otherwise marked off from each other by diversities of subject. Critics agree that the oldest portions are those included in chapters i-xxxvi and (broadly speaking) lxxi-civ.

It will be seen that the work is a voluminous one. But the most recent research, led by the Rev. R.H. Charles, an English specialist, breaks up this part into at least two distinct constituents. Charles's analysis and dating are: i-xxxvi, the oldest part, composed before 170 B.C.; xxxvii-lxx, lxxxiii-xc, written between 166-161 B.C.; chapters xci-civ between the years 134-95 B.C.; the Book of Parables between 94-64 B.C.; the Book of Celestial Physics, lxxii-lxxviii, lxxxii, lxxix, date undetermined. Criticism recognizes, scattered here and there, interpolations from a lost apocalypse, the Book of Noah. Expert opinion is not united on the date of the composite older portion, i.e. i-xxxvi, lxxi-civ. The preponderant authority represented by Charles and Schürer assigns it to the latter part of the second century before Christ, but Baldensperger would bring it down to a half century before our Era.

Evidenced here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01602a.htm
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:35:48 AM by britishgent »
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2008, 10:52:31 PM »
and again

Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of 19 angels who lead the fall of man.

Enoch 69:2-3 gives a list of 21 angels who were supposed to be the same group

Made you work huh, good, you worked for the good and I will have the pleasure in pointing out the Truth that was and remains before your eyes. Chapter [6] speaks of the Chiefs of tens, Chapter [69] the Chiefs of hundreds, the 21 mentioned in [69] were just foot-soldiers in the ranks of the troop (#9) that rebelled against GOD and if they were mentioned its because they were the worst of the Bunch.

Chapter 6
[7]And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, [8] Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.

These are their chiefs of tens.
These are their chiefs of tens.

Chapter 69
[1] And after this judgement they shall terrify and make them to tremble because they have shown this to those who dwell on the earth. [2] And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, [3] the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel.

Chapter 69
And these are the chiefs of their angels and their names, and their chief ones over hundreds and over fifties and over tens.

[4] The name of the first Jeqon
[5] And the second was named Asbeel:
[6] And the third was named Gadreel:
[8] And the fourth was named Penemue:
[12] And the fifth was named Kasdeja:

« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 09:22:54 AM by Punisher »

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britishgent

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Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2008, 01:32:18 PM »
i don't mean to be rude but that means nothing to me... could i please have a more detailed explanation..00
and i questioned the chronology of the books writing care to shed any light on this?
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2008, 08:57:27 AM »
i don't mean to be rude but that means nothing to me... could i please have a more detailed explanation..00
and i questioned the chronology of the books writing care to shed any light on this?

Ah!!!!

CHECK-MATE!!!!

GOT IT....

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britishgent

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  • Eli, Eli Lama Sabachthani?
Re: The LAWLESS one is REVEALED…....the Great Falling Away has ARRIVED.
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2008, 09:12:22 AM »
does the term pseudepigrapha mean nothing to you?
Global warming: Liberal hoax
The earth is not getting warmer after all; the effect is really just the prevalence of air conditioning. It just seems warmer when we go outside.

?

AbdulAziz

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  • Slave Of Allah
Re: The LAWLESS ONE is REVEALED…....The Great Falling Away.
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2008, 09:18:29 AM »
To Punisher
Could you please list me all the reasons that you think "Book Of Enoch" is the only book from Almighty God. It's ok if you want to answer on my topic dedicated to this book "Book Of Enoch". Thanks

:)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

Re: The LAWLESS ONE is REVEALED…....The Great Falling Away.
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2008, 01:02:54 PM »
To Punisher
Could you please list me all the reasons that you think "Book Of Enoch" is the only book from Almighty God. It's ok if you want to answer on my topic dedicated to this book "Book Of Enoch". Thanks

:)

Hope this reply nor this thread gets deleted like so many of mine as for some time now. Moderator must be a communist and doesn't believe in freedom of expression. And if not a commie, a little sissy that wets his panties by those above "insane" beings. As for your answer, GOD is the opposite of those who rule the airwaves, the LORD isn't insane, nor illogical. GOD wouldn't give HIS word 3 thousand years after Noah, no, Noah would have that Covenant with Him for Noah is the Covenant that Mankind survived and that will enter someday soon into eternity.

I, like you, was born into bondage. I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic before I understood what the World was about. I denounce my faith and told the church and their jesus to fawk themselves in a few words. All religions are institutions to enslave the masses by transgressing against the Most High unknowingly. But whether you know, or not, that you are poisoning yourself, you will die because of that poison. Government fund all programs, scientific programs, educational programs, religious programs, media programming. ""We have all been programmed!""

Believe what you want. I believe in the Truth, and the Truth has to make sense, or its not from GOD.



 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 01:16:42 PM by Punisher »