Athiest World

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.

Quote from: Dead Kangaroo on February 07, 2009, 04:57:59 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 07, 2009, 01:19:32 PM

...because there would be nothing defining us from the other animals.

Yet humans are just animals, why seperate them from other animals with definition?

I didn't say you should. How are we human then?

Last semester I took a whole class on that very question, long story short, there's no one answer. I tend to fall in the Sartre camp, though Heidegger and Rousseau have interesting ideas.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.

Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it. Yes they did something that shouldn't be considered good However they were Christians. I am not trying to say that the bible is evil and trying to make people do evil things I am saying that on the whole organized religions breed intolerance. There is very few large religions out there that haven't started a war. Second you are acting as though Judaism and Christianity are as different as Buddhism and Hinduism. Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs. And I didn't say I agree with him. I can understand why you would want to do something and admit I might do it if giving the temptation that does not mean I believe it is right. And You were acting as though I was saying that Christianity was a completely bad influence. I am saying though that It can be cause intolerance. I think the reason it isn't now is thanks to the information age.

Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.

Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM

Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.

Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.

Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.

Quote from: KingMan on February 12, 2009, 02:43:49 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM

Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.

Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.

Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.

But by believing in Jesus, We seperate ourselves from Judaism. We only share the Old Testament, thats all.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:49:55 PM

Quote from: KingMan on February 12, 2009, 02:43:49 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM

Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.

Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.

Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.

But by believing in Jesus, We seperate ourselves from Judaism. We only share the Old Testament, thats all.

But you can not ignore the old testament is part of your religion or your connection with the Jew of the old testament

We seperate ourselves from Judaism.

Separate but equal, eh?

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:39:00 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.

Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.

Quote from: KingMan on February 12, 2009, 02:51:45 PM

We seperate ourselves from Judaism.

Separate but equal, eh?

Like Quebec.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:39:00 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.

Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.

In that case I don't see how you can argue that orginized religeons don't breed intolerance.
Second The first crusade Happened before the Spanish inquisition started They weren?t really killing that many people for not being Catholic. Infact most of the solders were volunteers which is not what you would expect if they were just catholic to save there own life.

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 04:11:36 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:39:00 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 11, 2009, 10:05:03 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM

the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?

Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.

Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.

In that case I don't see how you can argue that orginized religeons don't breed intolerance.
Second The first crusade Happened before the Spanish inquisition started They weren?t really killing that many people for not being Catholic. Infact most of the solders were volunteers which is not what you would expect if they were just catholic to save there own life.

Indoctrination is something we should be proud of. Though you were forced to be christian from birth because of monarchies. No religion doesn't breed intolerance, people do. If there are no religions to drive discrimination, there will be race, family names, wealth. Intolerance is a built in human concept. Do not blame religion for something that is ingrained within all of us.

I am blaming Orginized Religeon. Not plain Religeon.  Yes intolerance is built into human nature however organized religion is somewhere were Intolerance of a specific group grows much more easily.

I am blaming Orginized Religeon. Not plain Religeon.  Yes intolerance is built into human nature however organized religion is somewhere were Intolerance of a specific group grows much more easily.

Something being an excuse does not make it the cause.

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.

No but it gives it motivation

Quote from: Raist on February 14, 2009, 09:05:22 AM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.

No but it gives it motivation

Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.

That has nothing to do with them being "organized".

That has nothing to do with them being "organized".

Yes it does, they are now organized, and have realized that niggers will inflate their flock. Also hating niggers turns people off.

That is due to social progress. If niggers were still considered niggers, I'm sure the Mormon Church would be obliged to tow the line.

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 04:27:09 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 14, 2009, 09:05:22 AM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.

No but it gives it motivation

Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.

That is more thanks to the information age. Before that religion was Used as an excuse to be raciest. Now however orginazations are looked down on for being raciest so if it is big and organized religion it needs to not be raciest in order to get a large following or more power.
Also look at gay marriage The main Reason is to protect the sanctity of Marriage. Look up sanctity in the dictionary. The entire argument to discriminate is based on religion.
   Lastly I was referring to Religious discrimination. That is the form that allows a religeon to gain more followers the easiest

haha, don't the Mormons believe the natives are a legitimately evil race?

They believe Natives were Jews who disobeyed God and so got their skin turned red as punishment.

I'm not sure if they're considered inherently evil or not. They're probably in the same situation as the blacks; the only way to get to Heaven is as a slave.

They believe Natives were Jews who disobeyed God and so got their skin turned red as punishment.

I'm not sure if they're considered inherently evil or not. They're probably in the same situation as the blacks; the only way to get to Heaven is as a slave.

Do Mormons really believe this?? I don't believe that.  I know a Mormon, and he doesn't hate blacks etc.

The Church Elders had a "Revelation" (conveniently around the same time segregation was abolished) that declared blacks equal to whites and allowed to enter the church. Up until the seventies, it was an officially racist organization.

Quote from: Raist on February 14, 2009, 07:10:18 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 04:27:09 PM

Quote from: Raist on February 14, 2009, 09:05:22 AM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM

Quote from: Raist on February 13, 2009, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: optimisticcynic on February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM

But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.

the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

Gains from does not mean causes. In fact they aren't even close.

No but it gives it motivation

Oh wow. So religions are motivated to discriminate. Yet when religions become organized they usually stop any racial discrimination. The book of mormon gives many reasons why we should hate blacks, but the current mormon church accepts blacks. Even though their own holy book proclaims them evil.

That is more thanks to the information age. Before that religion was Used as an excuse to be raciest. Now however orginazations are looked down on for being raciest so if it is big and organized religion it needs to not be raciest in order to get a large following or more power.
Also look at gay marriage The main Reason is to protect the sanctity of Marriage. Look up sanctity in the dictionary. The entire argument to discriminate is based on religion.
   Lastly I was referring to Religious discrimination. That is the form that allows a religeon to gain more followers the easiest

An excuse is not a cause.