Athiest World

Quote from: AbdulAziz on September 20, 2008, 06:09:40 AM

Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~

This is a smart man. Listen to this man.
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)

Quote from: AbdulAziz on September 20, 2008, 06:09:40 AM

Well in fact I have nothing against Christians nor atheist, but there are many reasons for hatred but then again it depends on the person himself. I personally sometimes congratulate some Atheists for their believes. I know it might sound stupid because we Muslims and Christians & Jews believe in the existence of Mighty God, we share same prophets...etc but why I then I congratulate Atheists!! Hmmm I would say because with their scientific facts and logical reasoning they have proved that false god cannot exists and shouldn't be worshiped.

If a Muslim wants to debate with Christian or Hindu the first thing he must first deny all the false gods in their religion, then he has to prove the existence of only one almighty god so he would be having two tasks. While you don't need to do this when debating with Atheist because both sides believe "There is No God" but we Muslims have two Extra words: "There is No God BUT ALLAH". I believe they are much more closer to realize the truth than those humans who are worshiping many gods beside "The Almighty" lol that's just an opinion

Athalus, do not be sad, they might hate you the must which I don't believe on the other hand, you Christians have group of people that you hate the most ^_~

This is a smart man. Listen to this man.
(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)

There's a good argument for all monotheistic religions to share the same creator God, by whatever name you choose.  However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong, so in what is likely to be the longest-running and ridiculous act of idiocy in the history of the Universe millions of people have died over thousands of years, brutally murdered for no other reason than agreeing with each other.

Think on that when you try to tell me that the major organised religions make sense.

(I'm Christian BTW. Though admittedly not a very good one)

and I would place myself in this category - don't believe in God because of a lack of evidence for his existence.

Yeah.. we're gonna take your word for that.

Smart man? He's fucking arguing that the christian God doesn't exist by saying Allah exists, thinking that that statement somehow proves his circular retardedness.

It's logical to say: "God doesn't exist because there is no proof", but it's just plain idiotic to say: "the christian god doesn't exist because Allah is the real almighty God".

They're both fucking fairytales.

You're arguing which fairytale is more valid than the other, but what you don't realize is that they're both fucking made up.

So no, not smart at all... you ignorant cur.

isnt allah the same as the jew god and the christian god

I'm pretty sure they're not the same, at least westerners don't consider "Allah" to be the Christian God...

I don't fucking know. He doesn't exist either way.

However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong,

Stop me when I start to go wrong, but didn't Muhammed engage in paederasty, something which is plainly not allowed in Christianity? And since both Muhammed and Jesus were killed in Jerusalem, then came back to life and rose to heaven

I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

See the the sun itself and think about it! one of more than 100 Billion stars in the galaxy according! How the outer layers of the Sun exhibit differential rotation: at the equator, how the surface rotates once every 25.4 days... How each second about 700,000,000 tons of hydrogen are converted to about 695,000,000 tons of helium and 5,000,000 tons of energy in the form of gamma rays...etc We call these signs

Try to ask yourself and think about it, give it some thoughts, This earth is just ONE planet in our Solar System and Our Solar System is just One of MANY solar systems... Our GALAXY, The Milky Way, is just ONE of the galaxies. There are ONE HUNDRED MILLION GALAXIES in the universe. They are ALL IN ORDER and they are all PRECISE. They are not COLLIDING with each other. They are not conflicting with one another. They are swimming along in a calculated orbit. Now... how do you explain the origin of this FLAWLESS & PERFECT Universe?

After all the above signs, is it ok for Atheists to take the risk to deny the existence of god without proof!? just because of there is an absence of proof!

"Do they not ponder and meditate upon the Quran or do they keep locks upon their hearts?"
[Quran 47:24]

I know some of you might ask me, then who created god? Seriously if they knew the definition of god and all of his attributes and names they wouldn't be asking this question. One of the attributes of Allah is that He is Eternal. By definition Eternal is forever with no beginning; therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal/non-eternal beings are created. By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this Eternal is Everlasting and intelligent Being and we call Him Allah!!!

Some people like Space Cowgirl or fluorescence would say, then why we can't see god!? My answer is as usual, Allah does not to do ungodly things. By definition, He is not like His creation and not within His creation. If we assume that He were to show up, what evidence do you have that you will believe in Him? Present a logical evidence that you will believe in Him if He were to show up! It is not logical to say: "I will believe in Him because He will be in front of me". The classical arguments presented in the Quran tell us that when miracles were revealed to people in the past, they said it is magic and that's why I quoted several verses before. I also talked about the purpose of this life and it was to worship Allah this life is no more but a test for us. Allah tests us and sends guidance to us -Will we obey Him (by doing good and abstaining from evil) without seeing Him? This is part of our test. If Allah was clearly watching us, while we watched Him - then none of us would even feel inclined to sin out of awe and fear for Him. We know it requires faith to believe in Allah without seeing Him. Yet there are many signs that He has given us which help us in accepting and strengthening in this faith.

In fact qe don't need to see God to believe in Him, and that's why the majority of mankind believes in Him. So if someone was to question why we can't see Him, then we say that we are ABLE to believe in Him without seeing Him, and the majority of mankind believe in Him. We believe this is because He created mankind this way, upon a fitrah [natural disposition] in which we know that a Higher Power exists and controls.

So if this majority are able to then similarly you are able to. Allah KNOWS that we can believe in Him without seeing Him, and that's why He doesn't have to show Himself to us in this life. He sends Messengers' with undeniable signs to show us that they are truly sent from God, informing us of the clear message.Then He will reward the believers and good doers by letting them see His Majesty on the Day of Judgment, and He will punish those who rejected Him, by never letting them see Him, because they rejected His Promise in this life. Now there would be two reasons why someone denies Allah, it's either because he is closed minded, or he has not reflected upon the signs of Almighty Allah. For the former, there is nothing we can do to , for the latter, Allah said in the Quran:

Quote

Smart man? He's fucking arguing that the christian God doesn't exist by saying Allah exists, thinking that that statement somehow proves his circular retardedness.

It's logical to say: "God doesn't exist because there is no proof", but it's just plain idiotic to say: "the christian god doesn't exist because Allah is the real almighty God".

Well, yeah.

Quote

They're both fucking fairytales.

You're arguing which fairytale is more valid than the other, but what you don't realize is that they're both fucking made up.

So no, not smart at all... you ignorant cur.

uh-huh... thats as much as I can respond to now....

I seriously don't know why Atheists are waiting for miracles and not seeing the signs around them, we Muslims and most other people who believe in god understand such signs but sadly there are some Atheists separate science and god as if these two concepts can never be together. I mean look in this universe, The earth with ALL its complexities, its continuous faultless orbit around the sun, the precise alternation of the night & the day, the existence of this VAST solar system; the presence of the sun... how the earth is in such an exact and precise place where it receives such a definitive & 'convenient' amount of sunlight... that if the earth was even one metre back from where it is, all life would simply freeze to death, & if it was even one metre closer to the sun we would instantly shrivel due to the heat, we name these signs...

See the the sun itself and think about it! one of more than 100 Billion stars in the galaxy according! How the outer layers of the Sun exhibit differential rotation: at the equator, how the surface rotates once every 25.4 days... How each second about 700,000,000 tons of hydrogen are converted to about 695,000,000 tons of helium and 5,000,000 tons of energy in the form of gamma rays...etc We call these signs

Try to ask yourself and think about it, give it some thoughts, This earth is just ONE planet in our Solar System and Our Solar System is just One of MANY solar systems... Our GALAXY, The Milky Way, is just ONE of the galaxies. There are ONE HUNDRED MILLION GALAXIES in the universe. They are ALL IN ORDER and they are all PRECISE. They are not COLLIDING with each other. They are not conflicting with one another. They are swimming along in a calculated orbit. Now... how do you explain the origin of this FLAWLESS & PERFECT Universe?

By logic, everyone agrees with the fact that there was something Eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants.

In fact qe don't need to see God to believe in Him, and that's why the majority of mankind believes in Him. So if someone was to question why we can't see Him, then we say that we are ABLE to believe in Him without seeing Him, and the majority of mankind believe in Him. We believe this is because He created mankind this way, upon a fitrah [natural disposition] in which we know that a Higher Power exists and controls.

Now there would be two reasons why someone denies Allah, it's either because he is closed minded, or he has not reflected upon the signs of Almighty Allah.

Abdul, does it not seem odd that in your Universe of perfect order, entropy (chaos) should always be increasing?

Any theory that goes against thermodynamics is doomed. Fact.

I love when people think that one meter in difference effects anything in cosmic terms. Does everyone here know that in the northern hemisphere we are thousands of kilometers farther from the sun during the summer than during the winter?

No you didn't, we all know you just made that up to be funny.

This law therefore is not only supported by the Bible, but likewise, the Bible is supported by the law. But now does the law correlate with the theory of evolution? Evolution claims that all things were generated by "chance" from essentially nothing; that nothing created some of the matter and energy of the universe, but over time more and more of it evolved; simply stated in other words, that creation is still a work in progress. Henceforth, this theory lies in direct contradiction to the first law, and is in no honest way supported by it. This law of the conservation of matter and energy rather testifies that all that exists must've been the work of a Creator, since it states not one process in nature can create additional matter/energy.

This thermodynamic law of increasing entropy is not only biblically, but scientifically irrefutable; but, in relation to the belief of evolution, it ever­so­clearly declares the dead opposite. The theory which says there is an increase in complexity and order over time, instead of a decrease, has a terrible problem­facing with science.

This big contrariety to the law is not unknown by evolutionists either. "As far as we know, all changes are in the direction of increasing entropy, of increasing disorder, of increasing randomness, of running down," even atheist Issac Asimov admitted. Regardless of its lucidity however, many evolutionists have proposed an argument to it­ the "open­system" argument­ in which they plead that a decrease in entropy is indeed possible given an open­system and an available influx of energy. An example of this is the decreasing entropy within a blooming flower under the solar energy from sunlight. While it is indeed true that this type of increase in order (decrease in entropy) is
possible within an open system, it occurs only at the expense of the overall order of the larger eternal system decreasing. The question for the evolutionist then is not "how can it be possible for a plant to grow from its seed?" but, under this second law of thermodynamics, "how can you figure the biosphere as a whole to evolve into higher order?"
The problem with that last question is that whatever the evolutionary claim be, there is no logical support for it. This is because while having an open system and an available flow of energy to it are necessary conditions for decreasing the system's entropy, they are not sufficient by themselves. In addition, the system must contain a program to direct
the growth in complexity (such as the "genetic code" in DNA), as well as a mechanism for storing and converting the incoming energy (examples including photosynthesis in plants, and metabolism in animals). If evolution is really true, then there must be a reasonable explanation for what the pre­existing program and mechanism was that directed the inorganic chemicals of the primordial soup to become the first replicating life form.

As the above chart shows, there are no conceivable programs or mechanisms that could have possibly fulfilled the role of creating the first living cell from inorganic particles. The program and mechanism of which the evolutionary theory suggests for the production of complex organisms from the first organic cell are natural selection and mutations. However, as it turns out, natural selection can by no means lead to continual improvement; it can merely maintain the features of which organisms already had. While it may serve as a preservative "program," ridding out harmful mutations, natural selections can not specify the growth of more complex systems.

Furthermore, biological evidence leans heavily toward the position that mutations­ mere random changes that occur in genes by mistake­ can by no means increase the order within any organism. While mutations do alternate and destroy preexisting genetic information, they cannot add new information. In more scientific terms, mutations can cause micro evolution, where characteristics of a species may be slightly contorted, but they can not generate macro evolution, the foundational claim for the entire theory of evolution which supposes that one species can reproduce to form an entirely new kind of species. As exemplified in the words of John MacArthur:

  While it is easy to understand how a species of insect might
  through genetic mutations lose its wings and its ability to fly
  [micro evolution], there is no known genetic process that
  might explain how any species of nonflying creatures could
  develop anything as complex as wings and aerodynamic
  capabilities [macro evolution].

Indeed laboratory experiments have been conducted, wherein fruit flies were able to adopt the freakish alteration of growing legs from their heads. This mutation was merely the result of changes in the fruit flies' existing structure, and were by no means displaying any sign of transforming into an entirely new kind of species. Furthermore, while these flies could be bred under specific laboratory conditions, they are, however, incapable of survival in nature due to this harmful mutation.

Even though the law of increasing entropy is undeniably at work in our universe, and showing now more than ever before, this belief in irrationality, in complete opposition to scientific reality, in essential impossibility, is still highly favored over creation by so many people. As an evolutionist himself, Jeremy Rifkin has confessed:

      We believe that evolution somehow magically creates
      greater overall value and order on earth. Now that the
      environment we live in is becoming so dissipated and
      disordered that it is apparent to the naked eye, we are
      beginning for the first time to have second thoughts about our
      views on evolution, progress, and the creation of things of
      material value...Evolution means the creation of larger and
      larger islands of order at the expense of even greater seas of
      disorder in the world. There is not a single biologist or       
      physicist who can deny this central truth. Yet, who is willing
      to stand up in a classroom or before a public forum and admit
      it?

The last of these laws is the most obvious to our mere human common sense, yet it has still been "tampered with" just as much as (if not, more than) the preceding two. The third law of thermodynamics­ the law of causality­ proclaims that without a cause, there could be no effect. The cause is always greater than the effect. As mentioned in the previous   chapter, no cause has been given for the "Big Bang" hypothesis of the theory of evolution (chance is not a cause). It merely claims that nothing created everything, a statement not only impossible, but senseless. Clearly, the only model of the origin of the universe which this law backs up is the Genesis record of creation.

Interesting that athiests claim they are all moral, when evidence shows otherwise.

Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

Quote from: Althalus on October 16, 2008, 04:38:43 PM

Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

You might be confusing us with anarchists.

Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

So it's immoral to prevent murder?

I don't understand what you're trying to say, either. Even if it were true that atheists acted the way described in the OP, how does that make God any more likely to exist?

Christians have a reason to be moral, athiests only follow the law when they fear getting caught.

So it's immoral to prevent murder?

There's a good argument for all monotheistic religions to share the same creator God, by whatever name you choose.  However, most of them still think they're right and everyone else is wrong, so in what is likely to be the longest-running and ridiculous act of idiocy in the history of the Universe millions of people have died over thousands of years, brutally murdered for no other reason than agreeing with each other.

Think on that when you try to tell me that the major organised religions make sense.