So much for the separation of church and state.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:31:56 PM

Why are you attracted to women instead of men?

It's delicious.

Way to not answer.  

Quote from: Raist on September 16, 2008, 08:34:00 PM

Several biological reasons, brain structures, chemical responses to pheromones. Testosterone levels possibly. Facial recognition, which is just falling back on brain structures.


Why are you attracted to men?

For the same reason you are.

Way to admit you are gay. Also that would mean being homosexual is not a choice. I win.

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:34:50 PM

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:31:56 PM

Why are you attracted to women instead of men?

It's delicious.

Way to not answer.  

What? I did answer. The female body is just scrumptious. Don't you agree?

Yup.  

Maybe that was the wrong question.  Here's what it comes down to.  If a gay man and a straight man were locked in a room with no outside reference from birth and then presented on their 18th birthday a naked chick and a naked guy, I wonder if the same choices would be made?

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:36:01 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:34:50 PM

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:31:56 PM

Why are you attracted to women instead of men?

It's delicious.

Way to not answer.  

What? I did answer. The female body is just scrumptious. Don't you agree?

Yup.  

Maybe that was the wrong question.  Here's what it comes down to.  If a gay man and a straight man were locked in a room with no outside reference from birth and then presented on their 18th birthday a naked chick and a naked guy, I wonder if the same choices would be made?

They may go the way of male prison's way before that time comes.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:36:01 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:34:50 PM

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:31:56 PM

Why are you attracted to women instead of men?

It's delicious.

Way to not answer.  

What? I did answer. The female body is just scrumptious. Don't you agree?

Yup.  

Maybe that was the wrong question.  Here's what it comes down to.  If a gay man and a straight man were locked in a room with no outside reference from birth and then presented on their 18th birthday a naked chick and a naked guy, I wonder if the same choices would be made?

They would be mentally retarded and would probably try to eat her as food. People need social interaction to be functioning humans. Sorry.

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:36:01 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:34:50 PM

Quote from: Hara Taiki on September 16, 2008, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 08:31:56 PM

Why are you attracted to women instead of men?

It's delicious.

Way to not answer.  

What? I did answer. The female body is just scrumptious. Don't you agree?

Yup.  

Maybe that was the wrong question.  Here's what it comes down to.  If a gay man and a straight man were locked in a room with no outside reference from birth and then presented on their 18th birthday a naked chick and a naked guy, I wonder if the same choices would be made?

If they were locked in the same room there would be no choice at all.

Not the same room. 

How would you know whether they were straight or gay as soon as they were born?

You should buy some babies on the black market and try out your expirement.

How would you know whether they were straight or gay as soon as they were born?

Time travel?



All I'm saying is outside influences may have something to do with choices later on.

Freud theorized that homosexuality was brought about through outside influences and experiences growing up. I do not see how this view makes it any more of a "choice". Freud certainly didn't think so; he was a great champion of sexual liberation.

Why does it matter whether it is genetic or a product of certain experience? Either way, it's moar bitches for you. Let the fags have each other.

Why does it matter whether it is genetic or a product of certain experience? Either way, it's moar bitches for you. Let the fags have each other.

This discussion is about gay marriage, not the act of homosexuality.

I know...Wardogg is basing his argument against gay marriage on the "fact" that homosexuality is a choice. Hence, homosexuality itself must be examined.

I know...Wardogg is basing his argument against gay marriage on the "fact" that homosexuality is a choice. Hence, homosexuality itself must be examined.

Well I don't think I used the word fact.

Freud theorized that homosexuality was brought about through outside influences and experiences growing up. I do not see how this view makes it any more of a "choice". Freud certainly didn't think so; he was a great champion of sexual liberation.

Why does it matter whether it is genetic or a product of certain experience? Either way, it's moar bitches for you. Let the fags have each other.

Im confused.  If it is brought about by outside influences and experiences how can it not be a choice.  If those influences and experiences never happened then the person should end up the same way regardless?

Regardless of the reason, should we change every institution to fit society in every way, like making college curriculems easier so mentally retarded people can graduate?

Regardless of the reason, should we change every institution to fit society in every way, like making college curriculems easier so mentally retarded people can graduate?

So gay people getting married, is the same as allowing a retard to build your house?

I don't believe you are born gay.  It's a lifestyle choice.  Therefore the rules are, be heterosexual so that you can be married.  They choose not to be, hence they can't get married.  Or something like that.

Science strongly disagrees with you, but don't let the facts change your opinions.

Quote from: Robbyj on September 16, 2008, 09:06:49 PM

Regardless of the reason, should we change every institution to fit society in every way, like making college curriculems easier so mentally retarded people can graduate?

So gay people getting married, is the same as allowing a retard to build your house?

Strawman

So gay people getting married, is the same as allowing a retard to build your house?

Build your society to collapse!!!!!111!!2

Quote from: Oscar Wilde on September 16, 2008, 09:01:49 PM

I know...Wardogg is basing his argument against gay marriage on the "fact" that homosexuality is a choice. Hence, homosexuality itself must be examined.

Well I don't think I used the word fact.

You believe it to be true and you are willing to deprive people the right to marry based on this belief, yet you don't believe you're right?

Quote from: Oscar Wilde on September 16, 2008, 08:56:07 PM

Freud theorized that homosexuality was brought about through outside influences and experiences growing up. I do not see how this view makes it any more of a "choice". Freud certainly didn't think so; he was a great champion of sexual liberation.

Why does it matter whether it is genetic or a product of certain experience? Either way, it's moar bitches for you. Let the fags have each other.

Im confused.  If it is brought about by outside influences and experiences how can it not be a choice.  If those influences and experiences never happened then the person should end up the same way regardless?

We do not always choose the outside influences and experiences. Especially when we are young. Such things would be just as much outside of our control as genetics.

Regardless of the reason, should we change every institution to fit society in every way, like making college curriculems easier so mentally retarded people can graduate?

I don't see how you can compare the two.

All I'm saying is outside influences may have something to do with choices later on.

If someone is born with an inner ear condition that gives them vertigo at altitude they could be afraid of heights.
If someone had a traumatic experience in a glass elevator they could be afraid of heights.

One would be nature, one would be nuture, but in neither instance could you suggest the person chose to be afraid of heights.

Quote from: Oscar Wilde on September 16, 2008, 09:01:49 PM

I know...Wardogg is basing his argument against gay marriage on the "fact" that homosexuality is a choice. Hence, homosexuality itself must be examined.

Well I don't think I used the word fact.

Quote from: Oscar Wilde on September 16, 2008, 08:56:07 PM

Freud theorized that homosexuality was brought about through outside influences and experiences growing up. I do not see how this view makes it any more of a "choice". Freud certainly didn't think so; he was a great champion of sexual liberation.

Why does it matter whether it is genetic or a product of certain experience? Either way, it's moar bitches for you. Let the fags have each other.

Im confused.  If it is brought about by outside influences and experiences how can it not be a choice.  If those influences and experiences never happened then the person should end up the same way regardless?

If they get horny around men but not around women, how can it be a choice?

Quote from: Raist on September 16, 2008, 09:08:47 PM

Quote from: Robbyj on September 16, 2008, 09:06:49 PM

Regardless of the reason, should we change every institution to fit society in every way, like making college curriculems easier so mentally retarded people can graduate?

So gay people getting married, is the same as allowing a retard to build your house?

Strawman

Your statement was a strawman. Mine simplified yours. It did not reduce it at all.

Some gay people are clearly gay because of genetics.  Close female relatives of male homosexuals average more children then females with straight male relatives.  Clearly there is a gene or combination of genes that encourages sex with men, and the disadvantage of men having that gene is made up for by the women having more children (How The Mind Works, Steven Pinker).

If they get horny around men but not around women, how can it be a choice?

Trust Roundy to put it the most succinctly...

What about people that switch, and then back again sometimes?  Is that not choosing?

Or bisexuals isn't that not choosing one way or the other?

But now you're not talking about gay people in general, but specific gay people.  Sexuality is not so simple that you can generalise all people based on the behaviour of some people from that sexual persuasion.  One of my housemates has sex with a different girl every week.  Clearly you can't extrapolate his behaviour onto all hetrosexuals, so why would gay people be any different?

What about people that switch, and then back again sometimes?  Is that not choosing?

Or bisexuals isn't that not choosing one way or the other?

What about men who just aren't attracted to women, or women who just aren't attracted to men?

But now you're not talking about gay people in general, but specific gay people.  Sexuality is not so simple that you can generalise all people based on the behaviour of some people from that sexual persuasion.  One of my housemates has sex with a different girl every week.  Clearly you can't extrapolate his behaviour onto all hetrosexuals, so why would gay people be any different?

You can't?  If every man could have sex with a different girl every week without any sort of consequesnces, they wouldn't?  

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 16, 2008, 09:19:07 PM

What about people that switch, and then back again sometimes?  Is that not choosing?

Or bisexuals isn't that not choosing one way or the other?

What about men who just aren't attracted to women, or women who just aren't attracted to men?

What about them?  And that has nothing to do with my question.

Quote from: beast on September 16, 2008, 09:23:14 PM

But now you're not talking about gay people in general, but specific gay people.  Sexuality is not so simple that you can generalise all people based on the behaviour of some people from that sexual persuasion.  One of my housemates has sex with a different girl every week.  Clearly you can't extrapolate his behaviour onto all hetrosexuals, so why would gay people be any different?

You can't?  If every man could have sex with a different girl every week without any sort of consequesnces, they wouldn't?  

I wouldn't. Random sex is fun occasionally, but it's nice being with that girl you've known forever, where you know every spot, and you both know every position you both like.