Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II

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Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« on: September 03, 2008, 02:51:52 PM »
(let's try to not sidetrack it this time with meaningless posts and get ourselves locked)

A wonderful opportunity for you Flat-Earth people!  Starting November 24th, Qantas will be making direct flights from Sydney to Buenos Aires.  This is a chance for you to prove once and for all that Earth is flat (or not).

Note the following things, which will be different depending on whether Earth is flat or round.

1.  The flight time.  The difference in distances is vast, depending on which Earth model is correct.

2.  The flight path.  If Earth is flat, I believe (looking at a Flat-Earth map) you'll fly over North America, parts of the Caribbean, and the northern part of South America.  If you don't, then Earth is probably round.

3.  The direction the plane flies in. Take a compass with you!  If you head north out of Sydney, then the direction appears to be south later in the flight, you can be sure Earth is flat.  If somewhat the opposite occurs, Earth is round.

4.  Note the relative position of the Sun to the plane during your flight.  It will be very different depending on which model is correct.


Answers to your inevitable objections:

1.  "We don't have the money for that."   Surely any organisation protecting such an important secret as yours could scrape together a mere few thousand dollars or so for somebody to take this flight.  It would be made back many times over with book sales after you prove you're right.  Call it an investment.

2.  "Jet streams can speed up the plane, some flights arrive in less than half the time because of wind (which will come from Tom)".  Uh-huh...would have to be a pretty strong wind, over 600mph, to cut the time of a flight in half.  Vector physics, anybody?  I don't care what your guy who claims to be a pilot says.  No commercial long-distance pilot could possibly do his job competently, if he believes in a flat Earth.  He wouldn't even know which direction to point the plane in.

3.  "The onus is on you to prove it."  Nope.  It's on you because you're the one proposing the theory which is not widely accepted.  Ours has been proven beyond reasonable doubt for several centuries, and the entire world is set-up on its basis.  You have the extraordinary claim, not us.  "The entire world is against us and all governments are conspiring" is an extremely extraordinary claim.  Besides, I wouldn't get any book sales from a proof of Earth being round.  Almost everybody knows that.

4.  "Why don't you do it?!"  Because you wouldn't believe anything I said.  You'd accuse me of being part of the conspiracy with NASA (FYI: I did once work on a project for NASA, in which I observed the curvature of Earth from a camera that I personally mounted on a rocket.  I suppose you think the lens was altered).  On other threads, you've demanded flight logs, etc. as proof, but we all know that you think any photos, video, documents are faked.  You people have even claimed that the windows on SpaceShip One were special windows that make Earth look curved!  It's one of the foundations of your theory, everything is faked, everyone is lying...  yet you continue to ask people for document or photographic proof.  YOU HAVE TO DO IT!  Otherwise, you won't ever believe it.  This is an extremely important point.  YOU MUST DO IT YOURSELVES!

5.  "Compasses don't work on a flight."  I've never tried, but I'm sure they'd work.  Either way, there are other things on the list above and it is not exhaustive.  Surely a super-intelligent organisation like yourselves can come up with more ways to prove a flat Earth during the flight.  You might even find a way to prove your bending light theory.


Any of you have the guts?  What amazing fame, riches and glory you could achieve by proving that you're right! Surely it would compensate you for the few thousand dollars that you spent on the flight and a compass.

Just to be clear, I don't think any of you would actually do it.  You entire lives are validated by the fact that you think you have this great secret.  What would happen if you were to stop believing in it?  You'll probably just challenge me to do it or to bring you proof, probably claiming you don't have the money.  I'm just interested in watching what excuses you come up with for not doing the experiment.  How creative are you?  Ta!

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rtbm24

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 06:44:42 PM »
I remember a few months ago when I first joined I mentioned this. Sadly, I don't think FErs will reply, being they have no other sensible responses to this (other than 'read the FAQ'  ;))

Compasses do work in aircraft.

Lookie what I found. I don't see an ice wall, do you? From this thread. Also, as I research further, I found this incident. Well, according to FE theory, this would be impossible, because the 'ice wall' is down there. I'm guessing you are going to claim it was shot down? Another military cover-up?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 06:54:06 PM by rtbm24 »

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 07:02:53 PM »
In your first link the horizon looks pretty flat to me.  Win for FE.

The second link I think your referring to the map with the red lines.  That is not an actual navigational chart. Try again.

The third link you can go to the ice rim that is Antarctica doesn't mean you can make it to the ice wall. Win for FE.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 07:10:32 PM by WardoggKC130FE »

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 07:07:55 PM »
I remember a few months ago when I first joined I mentioned this. Sadly, I don't think FErs will reply, being they have no other sensible responses to this (other than 'read the FAQ'  ;))

Compasses do work in aircraft.

Lookie what I found. I don't see an ice wall, do you? From this thread. Also, as I research further, I found this incident. Well, according to FE theory, this would be impossible, because the 'ice wall' is down there. I'm guessing you are going to claim it was shot down? Another military cover-up?

Noob, that picture is just of wing and ice. So what?

Noob, that plane crash helps prove FE because it was shot down for getting too far into the ice Wall
Imperious, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the like of which has never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell.... Kill me again or take me as I am, for I shall not change.

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rtbm24

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:11:24 PM »
In you first link the horizon looks pretty flat to me.  Win for FE.

The second link I think your referring to the map with the red lines.  That is not an actual navigational chart. Try again.

The third link you can go to the ice rim that is Antarctica doesn't mean you can make it to the ice wall. Win for FE.
I never claimed the horizon had a curve. I only stated that there was no 'ice wall'.

I was not referring to that map. Of course it is not a navigational chart. And evidently, you didn't take time to read the post. He was showing how far a certain (scheduled) flight got to the pole. That was not the flight from which the photo was taken from (which is the same airline in the OP).

But, if you were that close to the wall, I think you would be able to see it. Especially since your FAQ states it could be 40-50,000 feet tall.

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rtbm24

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 07:20:05 PM »
I remember a few months ago when I first joined I mentioned this. Sadly, I don't think FErs will reply, being they have no other sensible responses to this (other than 'read the FAQ'  ;))

Compasses do work in aircraft.

Lookie what I found. I don't see an ice wall, do you? From this thread. Also, as I research further, I found this incident. Well, according to FE theory, this would be impossible, because the 'ice wall' is down there. I'm guessing you are going to claim it was shot down? Another military cover-up?

Noob, that picture is just of wing and ice. So what?

Noob, that plane crash helps prove FE because it was shot down for getting too far into the ice Wall
Well, that's exactly what it is. A shot from Antarctica, with no visible wall in sight.

Of course another cover-up (what your whole theory depends on). Show me just one piece of credible evidence of a cover-up involving the ice-wall. Just one. Wait, you can't. What happens to the people stationed there? Do they just vanish?

And stop calling a noob. Is that what FEers have resorted to?

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cmdshft

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 07:21:41 PM »
Stop using noob every other paragraph, asshat.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 09:09:21 PM »
Do the flat-Earth people hire a team to work full-time at sidetracking threads from the original point?  Am I going to have to post "Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires III"?

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Jack

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 09:20:34 PM »
No, just start from here.

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Raist

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 09:21:17 PM »
Do the flat-Earth people hire a team to work full-time at sidetracking threads from the original point?  Am I going to have to post "Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires III"?
Tell your friends to not act like ass hats and we won't.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 09:31:16 PM »
Back to the matter at hand, what say you FET peoples? or will you side step this opportunity again?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 01:57:47 AM »
Back to the matter at hand, what say you FET peoples? or will you side step this opportunity again?

What opportunity? We already know that the earth is flat. The burden is on you to prove through experiment that the earth is a globe.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 02:06:49 AM »
What opportunity? We already know that the earth is flat. The burden is on you to prove through experiment that the earth is a globe.

Doesn't it get boring typing the same thing as a response in seven different threads?

Of course, it might be too much for use to expect that you might actually try and explain why the observations and experiments that are posted in those threads are flawed.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 02:16:43 AM »
What opportunity? We already know that the earth is flat. The burden is on you to prove through experiment that the earth is a globe.

Doesn't it get boring typing the same thing as a response in seven different threads?

Of course, it might be too much for use to expect that you might actually try and explain why the observations and experiments that are posted in those threads are flawed.

In those water-convexity threads which conduct experiments on the surface of the sea the poster saw exactly what Samuel Birley Rowbotham told us what they would see.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 05:01:32 AM »
In those water-convexity threads which conduct experiments on the surface of the sea the poster saw exactly what Samuel Birley Rowbotham told us what they would see.

That the hull of a ship would cease being visible as it moves farther from the observer?  Winship was able to bring the hull back in his observations of ships at sea.

What about calm days?  I still can't see the hull of a ship 14 miles away.  Is this seas obscuring the lower 40 feet of that vessel?  I would think that I would notice 40 foot swells.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 02:29:41 PM »
Side-tracking alert!  Come on, let's keep on topic.

Thanks, Tom, for copping-out exactly as I suspected you would.  The burden of proof is on you."  Well, the whole world except for a handful of paranoid tinfoil-hatters, knows that Earth is round, and our entire planet is set-up to operate on that principle.  The burden of proof for a contrary theory would be on you.  But nice of you to avoid a simple and cheap experiment to prove, once and for all, where the truth lies (and you also don't seem to want to collect the millions and millions of dollars in book sales).

By the way, I HAVE DONE IT!  I fly many times a year, all around the world!  I've been to the southern hemisphere many times, and we didn't fly north to get there!  You couldn't possibly have ever left your rock, or you'd know the truth.

Tom, you are a sad individual.  Unless of course you're just doing this to fool us all for kicks, and then I'm the sad one.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 02:39:25 PM »
The FAQ blames this on Jet streams and faulty GPS, or conspiracies to make the distance seem shorter than it actually is.  But how does that explain intercontinental submarine cables?  There are fiber cables (and power, and telephone) run across the ocean floors between the continents, I would imagine this is something that would have to have been precisely measured in order to accomplish, since these cables have to be manufactured.  According to that map, the cables between North America and Europe would have to be the same length as the cables between Australia and New Zealand.  You cannot explain that with faulty GPS.

Here is a map of the submarine cable system, unfortunately there is no scale, but the cables are labeled and you could find out their length if you research further.

http://www1.alcatel-lucent.com/submarine/refs/World_Map_2007_LR.pdf

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 03:29:58 PM »
Yeah, faulty GPS makes it seem to the passengers looking out the windows that they're not flying over the Arctic when they're supposed to be going south (in the accepted model).  It's sad, isn't it?

I've got it!  The government uses a heat ray mounted on one of those floating blimps to melt the ice in the Arctic every time a plane goes by, giving the passengers the impression that they're flying over somewhere warm and sunny, convincing them that they're flying south, supporting the conspiracy.  The heat ray then turns into a cooling ray, to reform the ice, so that it still looks to the Inuit like they're in the Arctic.

Tom and other guys;  go to Sydney.  Take a flight to Beunos Aires.  Bring a compass and get a window seat.  The truth is out there, and you'll find it this way.  Even if you don't want to do the experiment, Sydney and Buenos Aires are nice places to visit (Sydney is my favourite city in the world), so why not give it a go?  I know it's possible for you to change your minds.  There is no need for you to take these ridiculous beliefs to your graves.  I PROMISE NOT TO LAUGH if you change sides.  You might find you get respected for it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 03:35:41 PM by JeffC »

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Snaaaaake

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 03:50:20 PM »
Funny, the FErs still haven't even mentioned trying this flight. I'm so surprised!!
We told you to go to rehab, but you were all like "no, no, no!" ::)

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 05:16:07 PM »
I didn't even realize that this thread was here when I posted the following in a new thread, but it really should be here, beacause its very similar to Sydney and Buenos Aires II except that you can do it for free!:

In another effort to disprove you all, I have compared distances on a flat earth versus distances on a round earth.
The following image, I hope you will agree, shows basically a map of the earth being flat.
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/mlk256/Flat_earth.jpg

I took two paths that would both be the about the same distance on a spherical earth, but quite different on a flat earth. They are:
Between Wellington, New Zealand and Sydney, Australia
Between Beijing, China and Tokyo, Japan
According to my globe, these two distances are almost exactly the same. But I plotted them on the Image of a flat earth, and the former distance is almost 3x as long as the latter for FE model.
I created the following image to show the two distances on a flat earth. The Sydney-Wellington route is red and the Beijing-Tokyo route is green.
http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/mlk256/?action=view&current=Flat_earth-1.jpg

To test whether the FE or RE model is true, I entered each route into Expedia to find the plane trip time for each. If FE were true, the Sydney-Wellington route should be 3x as long as the other. Results: A one-way non-stop trip between Sydney and Wellington is 3 hours, 20 minutes. A one-way non-stop trip between Beijing and Tokyo is 3 hours, 55 minutes. The fact that they are nearly the same contradicts what FE model predicts, and agrees completely with my round globe. What do you think about this?
Maybe you think that for flights between wellington and Sydney they use sleeping gas to knock out all the passengers and then go and adjust their watches so that they won't notice that the 3 1/2 hour flight actually took 10 hours?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 05:36:28 PM by mlk256 »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 05:32:51 PM »
Quote
The following image, I hope you will agree, shows basically a map of the earth being flat.
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/mlk256/Flat_earth.jpg

The United Nations Map is a rough hypothesis only.

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Snaaaaake

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 05:33:41 PM »
I can't believe that after all that evidence has been presented Tom, all you can say is that.

I just love how you FErs ignore everything.
We told you to go to rehab, but you were all like "no, no, no!" ::)

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 05:46:41 PM »
Quote
The following image, I hope you will agree, shows basically a map of the earth being flat.
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/mlk256/Flat_earth.jpg

The United Nations Map is a rough hypothesis only.

You have to admit, though that the distances would be significantly different in any flat-earth model, showing my experiment to be valid, right?

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »
mlk, it's funny, because I have PERSONALLY taken BOTH of those flight plans you listed.  I've traveled from Sydney to Auckland (close enough to Wellington) return, and Tokyo-Beijing.  I can vouch for the times.

Of course, I must be in on the conspiracy, right?  Along with all of the world's commercial airline pilots, the hundreds of thousands(?) of people who take flights in the Southern Hemisphere every day, the governments, NASA, all of the soldiers guarding the ice-wall, etc.

Yet, according to Tom, WE'RE the ones who need to provide proof.  It's been proven many times over, and continues to be proven every time an airline pilot points his plane in the correct direction according to RE, and they get to where they were going!  Besides, what kind of conspiracy nut doesn't take every chance to try to prove his case?  The Lone Gunmen would be ashamed of Tom's effort in respect of this Sydney-Buenos Aires flight opportunity.

Again Tom, take the flight.  Sydney is beautiful.  What's the worst that could happen if your theories aren't confirmed?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 07:28:10 PM by JeffC »

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2008, 04:48:34 AM »
Ah, so the forums are active, including posts from several flat-Earth'ers, but nobody wants to comment on my thread.  They're off debating distortions on 2-D maps. But none of them have the guts to try a simple and absolutely conclusive experiment, or even to discuss it.  Tom's only comments here seem to have been to put the burden of proof onto me, and to dispute the flat-Earth map which was provided.  It's clear that the results of this simple and relatively cheap experiment could crush (or prove) flat-Earth once and for all, so it is avoided completely.

And I've quickly learned that you have no intention of ever seeing the truth.  You know you can never prove flat-Earth with the experiments you've been doing and the diagrams you've been drawing.  You have no interest in actually solving the problem, what you really want is something to believe in.  You need your conspiracy to keep you going and to give you purpose.  Like the guy in the movie Memento, you wouldn't know what to do with your lives if you determined Earth to be round.  Not that you'd ever let that happen, because you avoid any experiment where the answer would be conclusive, preferring to stick to experiments and conspiracy theories which will never conclusively prove anything.

In this sense, I think you're a step below young-Earth creationists.  Most of them would probably jump at the chance, if given an opportunity to do an experiment which would give them a definite answer one way or the other.  Even if it meant that they were wrong.

In short, you're cowards.  And the world will continue to ridicule you for it.

Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2008, 12:45:25 PM »
I've found the solution everyone!!!! 

This map explains everything!!!!!!


" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Video proof that the Earth is flat!

Run run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me cos I'm in the lollipop forest and you can't get there!

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Snaaaaake

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2008, 08:18:39 PM »
Ok there is no way I'm letting this thread die. FErs have had threads like this die countless times.

Funny how they're given the perfect chance to prove their "theory" right and they don't even take it.  ::)
We told you to go to rehab, but you were all like "no, no, no!" ::)

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spacemanjones

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2008, 08:25:42 PM »
I've found the solution everyone!!!! 

This map explains everything!!!!!!




Nice.. haha that's a good one.

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Parsifal

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Re: Flight from Sydney to Buenos Aires, II
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2008, 01:58:59 AM »
Ok there is no way I'm letting this thread die. FErs have had threads like this die countless times.

Too bad for you.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.