Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity

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So as most FE believers agree, the earth is accelerating at a rate of 9.8 meters per second squared upwards which is what causes the force that RE believers call gravity.  Also, as all people will agree, in order to cause a force that would hold someone to something, that something would have to be accelerating and not be at a constant velocity.  One way to put this is if you're driving in a car and you are going faster or accelerating, you can feel a force pushing you into your seat in the opposite direction that you are traveling, but once you are at a set speed or a constant velocity with no acceleration, that force goes away and it feels at though you are just sitting in a normal non moving seat due to the fact that you also are traveling at the same exact speed as the car.  So, if what the FE believers say is correct, then as time goes by, the earth is getting faster and faster and faster, or in other words the earth has the possibility to exceed the speed of light which is 299792458 meters per second.  Now if this were to happen, since light has no mass and can only travel at that constant speed, no light would be able to reach our eyes due to the fact that we would be traveling faster than light can travel meaning I would not be able to see even my hand in front of my face.  So, the question here would be "how long, if we are accelerating at 9.8 meters per second squared, would it take for us to reach a speed faster than the speed of light."  Here's how we find out:

In order to find out how fast an object/mass is traveling after a given amount of time at a constant acceleration you multiply the acceleration with time and then add the starting velocity or in a formula term it would be

V(end) = A x T + V(start)

Since we're trying to find out how long it would take to reach 299792458 meters per second if the earth started at a velocity of 0, we would have to rearrange the formula by first taking out the starting velocity (since it's 0) and then divide each side by the acceleration or in a formula term

V(end) / A = T

So, our V(end) is the speed of light or 299792458 m/s and the acceleration is 9.8 m/s^2 so our formula reads

(299792458 m/s) / (9.8 m/s^2) = T

If you do the math then we come to find that it would take 30591067.14 seconds to reach the speed of light at that acceleration.  There are 31556826 seconds in a year so 30591067.14 / 31556826 = 0.969393126 years.

It would take less than a year for us to be moving faster than we can see if what FE believers say is true and as I look around, I can still see, and I've been on this planet for well over a year.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 02:23:57 PM »
I agree.  We are going faster than the speed of light.  But considering the entire universe is accelerating with our frame of reference, its a moot point.  There is no observer to see us going faster than the speed of light.

Also Quantum tunneling.  Google it.  It's neat.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 02:25:22 PM »
Quote
It would take less than a year for us to be moving faster than we can see if what FE believers say is true and as I look around, I can still see, and I've been on this planet for well over a year.

From the FAQ (which you should have read before posting) -

Q: "Doesn't this mean we'd be traveling faster than the speed of light, which is impossible?"

A: The equations of Special Relativity prevent an object from accelerating to the speed of light.  Due to this restriction, these equations prove that an object can accelerate at a constant rate forever, and never reach the speed of light.  For an in depth explanation click here: http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=3152.msg28574#msg28574

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 02:44:59 PM »
I did read the FAQ.  That is something that explains that nothing can reach the speed of light but can still accelerate forever which is true but the acceleration will slow down as it even says in the post.  "From Alice's perspective, the Earth moves at an ever increasing rate, but the acceleration is not constant -- it decreases over time in such a way that the Earth never surpasses the speed of light."  The way that this works is that the speed of light is an upper limit or in other words as speed increases it gets closer and closer to 0 but never gets to 0.  That means that after a nice sum of years have gone by we'd be traveling at an acceleration of around .0000001 m/s^2.  People have been around for centuries and the force of gravity is still 9.8 m/s^2

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 02:46:58 PM »
I did read the FAQ.  That is something that explains that nothing can reach the speed of light but can still accelerate forever which is true but the acceleration will slow down
But not in our frame of reference.  Since you read the FAQ, you agree that your original argument is moot, right?


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Dr Eon Phlatamus

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2008, 02:52:11 PM »
Thats some very good math you have LEARNED Lobo ...
But you are making asumptions based on what you have been told.
That the earth is supposedly 93 million miles away and that light travels at a certain speed based upon how long it takes to get to you from that distance. RET right?
Well in FET , The light producer(s) is much closer , and based on tests here on earth , the speed of light appears to be imeasurable, virtually instant in its penetrating distance. And I must point out , that it does have a penetrating distance , atleast one that is percievable by the human eye.
Have you ever looked through a telescope? And have you noticed a percievable drop in the intensity of luminosity ,the further one wishes to magnify objects at a distance , the dimmer they become.(this test is easier done looking at land based objects with known not made up distances)
Hence the penetrating power of light cannot be anywhere near the distance the sun is supposedly at in RET.

So instead of trying to disprove theories , with math based on assumptions , You might ask yourself ... maybe im the one moving and the light is not?
Thinking outside the box , Doesnt include Believing the earth is round.

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 02:57:36 PM »
@The Engineer

All things based on "frame of reference" are part of classical relativity.  Einstien has proven classical relativity wrong (I'd have to read a bit to find out how) and his postulates state

The principle of relativity: The laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference frames

and

The principle of the constancy of the speed of light: The speed of light in free space has the same value in all inertial reference frames

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General Douchebag

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 03:03:34 PM »
So you believe that when you accelerate in a car, there really is a force pushing you into the back of the chair? How cute! We shall call it the Lobo Effect to commemorate your genius.  ::)
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2008, 03:05:10 PM »
Has anyone thought of where we are accelerating to?? or moving to? And if everything in the universe is moving in one direction, what is left behind us? and where are we heading? Moreover, where is the energy needed to accelerate everything being taken from??!!

Enlighten me!
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

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General Douchebag

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2008, 03:07:24 PM »
Nothing, nothing, and the Big Bang.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2008, 03:20:48 PM »
@Dr Eon Phlatamus
Well I've never used a telescope muc but I don't know anyone that would stare into the sun and then stare into the sun with a telescope to see how dim it becomes due to distance, not to mention with the amount of light that the sun gives off you'd have to have some really high tech equipment to be able to tell.  But the government has all the high tech equipment so yea.  Also about the "maybe I'm moving and the light isn't," well if that were true we'd have to be moving in all dimensions at once to be able to pick up the light with our eyes.

@General Douchebag
Well excuse me if you wana get technical.  It feels at though there's a force pushing you into the seat.  In reality what's happening is you're not moving while the car is, but since the seat is part of the car, and you're in the seat, you have to move forward because the seat is pushing on you.  But to the average person they would describe this as a force that pushes you into the seat, kinda like how the earth moving upwards pushes you onto the ground.

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General Douchebag

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2008, 03:22:40 PM »
Which is all about FoRs. So you contradicted yourself.
No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2008, 03:37:57 PM »
Well excuse me again for saying things that would help FE believers understand what I was trying to portray.

Guess I'll put it this way then.

Newtons first law: A particle will stay at rest or continue at a constant velocity unless acted upon by an external unbalanced net force.

Newtons second law: F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration.

If you are in the seat you will accelerate when the car accelerates and the force cause by the acceleration is your mass times the acceleration.

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General Douchebag

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No but I'm guess your what? 90? Cause you just so darn mature </sarcasm>

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2008, 03:49:20 PM »
Haha yea I guess you did catch me there.  Yes there is a force.  Guess I shouldn't have tried to think differently in a classical relativity way.  But still you said
So you believe that when you accelerate in a car, there really is a force pushing you into the back of the chair? How cute! We shall call it the Lobo Effect to commemorate your genius.  ::)
which shows that you believe there isn't a force that pushes you into the back of the chair.  But anyways I'll stay by my belief of modern relativity and that there is a force pushing you into the back of the chair when you accelerate in a car.

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jdoe

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2008, 03:53:52 PM »
Quote
But anyways I'll stay by my belief of modern relativity and that there is a force pushing you into the back of the chair when you accelerate in a car.

'Modern relativity' indicates no such thing.
Mars or Bust

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2008, 03:58:49 PM »
Well to put it simple, Classical Relativity says frames of reference effect physics while Modern Relativity says they don't.

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jdoe

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2008, 04:01:43 PM »
Well to put it simple, Classical Relativity says frames of reference effect physics while Modern Relativity says they don't.

In inertial frames of reference.  An accelerating car is a non-inertial frame of reference.  Newton's laws of motion don't hold.
Mars or Bust

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Dr Eon Phlatamus

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2008, 04:06:24 PM »
@Dr Eon Phlatamus
Well I've never used a telescope muc but I don't know anyone that would stare into the sun and then stare into the sun with a telescope to see how dim it becomes due to distance, not to mention with the amount of light that the sun gives off you'd have to have some really high tech equipment to be able to tell.  But the government has all the high tech equipment so yea.  Also about the "maybe I'm moving and the light isn't," well if that were true we'd have to be moving in all dimensions at once to be able to pick up the light with our eyes.


No body is debating that the sun is not something to be stared at with or without magnification. If you read my replay , the effects of light having a certain amount of penetrating power are best seen when stareing across the earth , not into the heavens.
And you saying that you believe it because the goverment must be telling the truth because they must have the high tech gadgets , Is only more evidence about the conspiracy theory. And your living in a state of mind that has been programmed into you since birth. Most likley from the epidural the pharmacuetical representitive used on your mother.
And as far as the light is stationary and your the one moving , is just a question I threw out there to try to get you thinking outside of the obvious programming you have recieved.
Although , It is a theory I have about what light is and how it works in relation to the FET .... But I must save all that for another post.
Thinking outside the box , Doesnt include Believing the earth is round.

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2008, 04:12:38 PM »
Well I really can't comment on what you're saying......I'm not someone who studies frames of references much.  I'm still in college at the moment so I've still got a lot to learn.  But anyways I've come and stated my beliefs and anyone can discuss this if they like.  I've got places I've got to go to now so goodbye everyone.

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2008, 04:16:44 PM »
oh and before I go
@Dr Eon Phlatamus
When I said the government has all the high tech equipment so yea I wasn't saying it in terms of "since they say it it's right," I was saying it in terms of "since they're the only ones that could tell the difference, conspiracy theorists wouldn't believe what they say."

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2008, 04:24:29 PM »
Where are you going?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2008, 05:10:37 PM »
@The Engineer

All things based on "frame of reference" are part of classical relativity.  Einstien has proven classical relativity wrong (I'd have to read a bit to find out how)
Please find out how Einstein proved 'classical relativity' wrong.  I would love to know how Einstein proved himself wrong.

Quote
The principle of relativity
Uh, hello?


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2008, 05:18:58 PM »
I've read over this thread (ok skimmed) and I was curious as to what would be needed to convince a hardline FE'er that RE was correct? lobo has used some math and talked some fancy words which undoubtedly he has be taught at school or college, and in the "perceived" sense I would personally agree with him. I am no expert in physic or any such thing, and to be honest I don't care much if the world is flat or round or cubic or whatever. Presuming the FE'ers are right and there is a conspiracy, wouldn't that contitute that the physics the lobo has quoted are meaningless? Well not meaningless maybe but not as meaningful, as with enough work you can make numbers say anything. As such, physics as is commonly known doesn't really work (presuming the FE'ers are right), so how do FE'ers prove their point to people like me who perceive the earth as round? You can't use physics and you can't use photos as they can easily be altered. Videos are also out of the question, they too are editable. I would say from what I've read the only true way to find out is for the personal obsever. LEts be honest if the goverment can bribe someone to keep quiet, someone who wants to prove a point can lie. So prove to me I am wrong? Remember people can lie and evidence faked. I'm not trying to sound smug, but lets be honest, if something is true it can't be hidden forever and the longer its hidden the harder it gets to hide it. So prove me wrong, make me a believer.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 05:23:15 PM »
lobo has used some math and talked some fancy words which undoubtedly he has be taught at school or college, and in the "perceived" sense I would personally agree with him.
But Lobo is using his high school or freshman physics to describe a situation in which they are not valid.  Therefore, his entire point is moot.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2008, 05:39:43 PM »
True its probably not advanced, and they probably don't fit the situation, which would yes make his argument extremely flawed, but I wouldn't say moot, but that is my opinion. You can argue with a brick wall all day if you want, that doesn't mean its ever going to argue back. That seems to be whats happening here. People believing what they want, and when proposed with opposition don't seem to be the best debaters, on BOTH sides of the argument. The RE'ers say the FE'ers are crazies, and the FE'er say the RE'ers are under a illusion they've been conditioned to be under. Chances are if its THAT much of a conspiracy everything about science we know would be wrong and as such all points are moot. Neither side has a basis to provide proof. I agree with RE as everything I have seen with my eyes, regardless of what I learned in school, makes me believe the earth is round. If flat why can't you continually see a boat sailing away? With magnification you should be able to see it indefinitely right?

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2008, 05:42:18 PM »
True its probably not advanced, and they probably don't fit the situation, which would yes make his argument extremely flawed, but I wouldn't say moot, but that is my opinion.
His physics:
Earth will reach the speed of light in one year.

Actual physics:
Earth will require an infinite amount of time to reach the speed of light.

I'd say that makes his argument moot.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2008, 05:43:22 PM »
Actually its less than a year.  And we did it.  Shall we slap high fives now?

Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2008, 05:58:37 PM »
I concede, but you really shouldnt celebrate until you prove it to the world. I'm not a strong enough debater nr do I know enough science. Lobo isnt a strong debater either, he knows more science than me though. But even I can recognize when someone is never going to see my point. You say his physics make his point moot, ok I'll give that to you, BUT isn't what he is talking about the basis for what you use to argue your own point? If I remember correctly as things get more advanced they make things more accurate, thus allowing you to discover something new, not change the truth. If the fundamentals can't stand up how can the more advanced physics hold accurately? That's like the old parable of build a house on sand and a house on a stone. The simple should point in the same direction as the more advanced, not the opposite. You're arguments are too one sided for my taste, no room for compromise, always calling things moot, getting emotional and such. Believer or not, anyone willing to debate or argue should be willing to accept the possibility of defeat, so I probably won't post too much more, the environment here isn't conducive to furthering oneself.

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TheEngineer

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Re: Why the earth cannot be accelerating to create the effect of gravity
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2008, 06:06:08 PM »
I concede, but you really shouldnt celebrate until you prove it to the world.
Einstein did that for me, nearly one hundred years ago.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson