New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome

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dyno

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New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:08:31 AM »
I have a solar filter for my telescope allowing me to shoot images of the sun.

To disprove the Sun projection theory and receding Sun theory I propose taking telescopic images of the Sun as it sets over the horizon. I can shoot images at high speed through my D70s with the normal 70mm lens. I can also image horizon shots with my 300mm lens without damaging it.

This will show a setting sun through a telescope remains a full sized disc as it sets below the horizon.

Any input?

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 01:11:58 AM »
can you set a timer for 30 second intervals,over a period of say...15 minutes from the time that the sun touches the horizon so we can see the sun recede, as opposed to set?

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 01:13:37 AM »
I am an RE'er however i notice a flaw in your project.

FE'ers assume that the setting sun is an optical allusion created by the 'spotlight' etting further away and eventually dissappearing, surely, even with a telescope, the optical ellution would still happen? and so you could capture this on camera?

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dyno

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Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 01:19:38 AM »
I believe there are two theories. Both involving an illusion but with different mechanisms. 1 involving a receding Sun reducing the apparent size. The other the projection just seems to vanish.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 01:22:46 AM »
But light bends upwards...it shoulsn't disappear...it should just get really tiny.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 01:55:39 AM »
I have a solar filter for my telescope allowing me to shoot images of the sun.

To disprove the Sun projection theory and receding Sun theory I propose taking telescopic images of the Sun as it sets over the horizon. I can shoot images at high speed through my D70s with the normal 70mm lens. I can also image horizon shots with my 300mm lens without damaging it.

This will show a setting sun through a telescope remains a full sized disc as it sets below the horizon.

Any input?

You must take pictures with a normal camera placed next to, and at the same height as the telescope.  Since the literature says that it is a matter of perspective, you should be able to see the Sun longer with the telescope than with the normal camera.

If worst comes to worse, you might at least get some really cool pictures, and maybe even one of the green flash, but that takes perfect conditions.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 03:04:45 AM »
Is it possible for you to take another picture from say 100-200 metres away but also at a greater elevation. This picture would need to be taken at the exact same time as picture 1 and include the camera 1 in the picture. Due to the elevation you would see more of the sun than in picture 1.
I think.

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dyno

  • 562
Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2008, 03:09:37 AM »
Is it possible for you to take another picture from say 100-200 metres away but also at a greater elevation. This picture would need to be taken at the exact same time as picture 1 and include the camera 1 in the picture. Due to the elevation you would see more of the sun than in picture 1.
I think.

What do you think? Of course it isn't.
Besides I don't think you can actually see more of the sun doing that because of the distances involved. Ships yes. The Sun, I don't think so. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But no, I can't be in 2 places at once.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 03:23:21 AM »
Of course you can't but you 'might' have some sort of remote device that allows you to operate a camera from distance. I know nothing about your eqipment so was just bouncing an idea around. Sorry.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2008, 03:28:58 AM »
Of course you can't but you 'might' have some sort of remote device that allows you to operate a camera from distance. I know nothing about your equipment so was just bouncing an idea around. Sorry.

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cbreiling

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Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2008, 04:39:39 AM »
It's possible to watch the sun set twice. What you do is get to a location where the sun sets over water, then crouch down on your belly and watch the sun set. At the instant you see the last bit of fire disappear, stand up! You'll be able to see it set again, and that's no joke.  :)

You can also take pictures (cool if they could be time/date stamped) of the activity. It's suggested that you carefully measure the delta (change) of the height of your eyeballs, and have a stopwatch in hand. Start the stopwatch at the instant of the "lying down" sunset, and stop it at the instant of the "standing up" sunset.

Then do the math!

I got this idea off the Internet, from some science teacher's website suggesting experiments and activities for school kids.
Quote from: lolz at trollz
It's because you asked about data. Theories can be pulled from the rectum without any apparent embarrassment, but pulling data from there is embarrassing even here. lol

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2008, 05:46:40 AM »
I have a solar filter for my telescope allowing me to shoot images of the sun.

To disprove the Sun projection theory and receding Sun theory I propose taking telescopic images of the Sun as it sets over the horizon. I can shoot images at high speed through my D70s with the normal 70mm lens. I can also image horizon shots with my 300mm lens without damaging it.

This will show a setting sun through a telescope remains a full sized disc as it sets below the horizon.

Any input?
I would do it pretty much like you said except I would also take pictures of the sun at noon when it is directly overhead as a comparison to show that the suns size remains constant
Only 2 things are infinite the universe and human stupidity, but I am not sure about the former.

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dyno

  • 562
Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2008, 06:50:42 AM »
Strange that the FEs of old have remained so quiet in these threads.

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2008, 06:54:47 AM »
If all RE'ers would like to look at my post 'Plate Tectonics' they will see that the first reply to my theory of tectonics on FE are impossible, an FE'er replied saying:

[/quote] It is unclear how a flat earth would even have magma as you mention, since liquid magma covered by a rock crust should take the shape of a sphere, due to natural surface tension. But I digress. [/quote]

And also:

[/quote] Pangea is a little more problematic, since it requires that Antarctica be a continent, not a fringe boundary. [/quote]

in my view this means that they are admittin they ust be mistaken in their theory of an FE and i would personally like them to publicly admit that i found the first completly provable evidence for a RE against a FE

Srekrab

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cbreiling

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Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 07:19:51 AM »
in my view this means that they are admitting they must be mistaken in their theory of an FE and i would personally like them to publicly admit that i found the first completly provable evidence for a RE against a FE.

Srekrab, sorry. Not everyone gets my dry sense of humor. Sometimes I like to play devil's advocate, and "play" FE.  :)
Quote from: lolz at trollz
It's because you asked about data. Theories can be pulled from the rectum without any apparent embarrassment, but pulling data from there is embarrassing even here. lol

Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 11:11:07 AM »
I have a solar filter for my telescope allowing me to shoot images of the sun.

To disprove the Sun projection theory and receding Sun theory I propose taking telescopic images of the Sun as it sets over the horizon. I can shoot images at high speed through my D70s with the normal 70mm lens. I can also image horizon shots with my 300mm lens without damaging it.

This will show a setting sun through a telescope remains a full sized disc as it sets below the horizon.

Any input?
I would do it pretty much like you said except I would also take pictures of the sun at noon when it is directly overhead as a comparison to show that the suns size remains constant

This would be insufficient and has been covered in other threads. As light goes through a thicker medium, its apparent size increases. Thus as the sun-spotlight recedes on the horizon, it must go through more atmodisc giving it the larger appearance (nearly the same size as the sun at noon) until it has receded to the point that it vanishes. A simple example of this effect is a streetlight during a clear night and the same streetlight on a foggy night. Alternately, city lights in a distance. They appear as one very large light from far away, but as you approach and there is less medium between you and the city, the lights shrink until they become visible as distinct points.

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cbreiling

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  • The Earth is Flat
Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 12:26:23 PM »
This would be insufficient and has been covered in other threads. As light goes through a thicker medium, its apparent size increases. Thus as the sun-spotlight recedes on the horizon, it must go through more atmodisc giving it the larger appearance (nearly the same size as the sun at noon) until it has receded to the point that it vanishes. A simple example of this effect is a streetlight during a clear night and the same streetlight on a foggy night. Alternately, city lights in a distance. They appear as one very large light from far away, but as you approach and there is less medium between you and the city, the lights shrink until they become visible as distinct points.

I think you meant as a point light source goes through a particulate medium its apparent size increases.

When you see streetlights in the fog, you aren't fooled that the lights have magically grown in size, you simply see the "bloom" around the light. The sun and moon are a different story, since they aren't point light sources, they have what's called a "visible disk." This means you can clearly see the line that forms the objects circumference. (Of course if it were so foggy that you couldn't see the clear circumference, then of course it's going to appear bigger.)

It's a well known optical illusion (meaning that it isn't real, just a trick of the eye) that objects at the horizon appear larger than they actually are, simply because we are putting them in the context of ground objects. When I was in college I assisted with an experiment which proved this. Eliminate the context cues, and a sun or moon on the horizion appears no larger than it does overhead. It has nothing to do with through how much atmosphere the light must travel.
Quote from: lolz at trollz
It's because you asked about data. Theories can be pulled from the rectum without any apparent embarrassment, but pulling data from there is embarrassing even here. lol

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dyno

  • 562
Re: New experiment: Sinking Sun. Projection or not. input welcome
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 05:13:48 PM »
I have a solar filter for my telescope allowing me to shoot images of the sun.

To disprove the Sun projection theory and receding Sun theory I propose taking telescopic images of the Sun as it sets over the horizon. I can shoot images at high speed through my D70s with the normal 70mm lens. I can also image horizon shots with my 300mm lens without damaging it.

This will show a setting sun through a telescope remains a full sized disc as it sets below the horizon.

Any input?
I would do it pretty much like you said except I would also take pictures of the sun at noon when it is directly overhead as a comparison to show that the suns size remains constant

This would be insufficient and has been covered in other threads. As light goes through a thicker medium, its apparent size increases. Thus as the sun-spotlight recedes on the horizon, it must go through more atmodisc giving it the larger appearance (nearly the same size as the sun at noon) until it has receded to the point that it vanishes. A simple example of this effect is a streetlight during a clear night and the same streetlight on a foggy night. Alternately, city lights in a distance. They appear as one very large light from far away, but as you approach and there is less medium between you and the city, the lights shrink until they become visible as distinct points.

So you still believe it will shrink to a point, not set, as a disc, below the horizon?

I can't image the mid-day sun with my camera only through the scope with the filter. The mid-day sun would damage my optics I believe.
The filter can easily remove any atmospheric bloom. The edges are sharp and well defined. There is no "fuzz"