Sinking Ship experiment Results

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #270 on: August 30, 2008, 03:37:03 PM »
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So you have high school physics under your belt and want to pursue physics in college, cool. Well it seems you have your work cut out for you with your light bends up theory, how can it be demonstrated?

Shine a laser beam across a mile long lake. The photons on the receiving end should arrive at a slightly higher altitude. This is evidence that light is bending upwards.

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jdoe

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #271 on: August 30, 2008, 03:48:05 PM »
Quote
So you have high school physics under your belt and want to pursue physics in college, cool. Well it seems you have your work cut out for you with your light bends up theory, how can it be demonstrated?

Shine a laser beam across a mile long lake. The photons on the receiving end should arrive at a slightly higher altitude. This is evidence that the earth is curved.

Fixed.
Mars or Bust

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #272 on: August 30, 2008, 04:27:27 PM »
I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth curved downwards. It's clear that the photons just curved upwards.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #273 on: August 30, 2008, 05:26:17 PM »
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So you have high school physics under your belt and want to pursue physics in college, cool. Well it seems you have your work cut out for you with your light bends up theory, how can it be demonstrated?

Shine a laser beam across a mile long lake. The photons on the receiving end should arrive at a slightly higher altitude. This is evidence that light is bending upwards.

That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.  I wiki'd the bedford level experiment, on the page it stated that the pole in the middle, assuming to be 3 miles away from both end poles, appeared to be almost 3 feet higher than the other poles when measured with a theodolite.  Using the FE explanation, I would think that would mean that the light that leaves one of the end poles traveling parallel to the groud, would bend up almost 3 feet before reaching the middle pole 3 miles away.  I think we could find a way to measure this by taking out the unknown (is the earth curved or flat).

Lets say we do the same experiment over a known man made flat and level surface, such as a football field, and we set up two poles at each endzone 100 yards from each other.  Also lets round up the amount the light may or may not have bent in the original experiment to exactly 3 feet for simplicity. (the real experiment we would use the exact numbers).

So if a laser appears to bend up 3 feet, or 1 yard every 3 miles (5280 yards), like in the original experiment, then over a distance of 100 yards, in a setting where we know the plain is exactly flat, we would expect the laser to be 0.01893 yards higher on the opposite pole.  If light is not bending up, then it should touch the opposite pole at the exact same height, and the phenomenon mentioned in your post would have to be explained by something other than bending light.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #274 on: August 31, 2008, 02:17:10 AM »
Quote
So you have high school physics under your belt and want to pursue physics in college, cool. Well it seems you have your work cut out for you with your light bends up theory, how can it be demonstrated?

Shine a laser beam across a mile long lake. The photons on the receiving end should arrive at a slightly higher altitude. This is evidence that light is bending upwards.

Tom, you are adorable.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #275 on: August 31, 2008, 06:38:12 AM »
Shine a laser beam across a mile long lake. The photons on the receiving end should arrive at a slightly higher altitude. This is evidence that light is bending upwards.

But this would invalidate the Bedford Levels experiment?  If light bends upwards, like the electromagnetic acceleration theory says, that would mean that Rowbotham wouldn't have been able to make the observations that he documented because the light would have bent up away from the lens of his telescope.

Here is your original response to Robosteve's (now known as Osama Bin Laden) concept of EA...

Robosteve seems to be an RE'er who has put his blind faith into the RE model. He has not looked into the facts or looked into the data for his claim of "accuracy." Any claim of accuracy must first be proven.

This is quite a change that you are willing to abandon the observations of Rowbotham for his theory.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #276 on: August 31, 2008, 06:48:34 AM »
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That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.

But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

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But this would invalidate the Bedford Levels experiment?  If light bends upwards, like the electromagnetic acceleration theory says, that would mean that Rowbotham wouldn't have been able to make the observations that he documented because the light would have bent up away from the lens of his telescope.

I'm sure the scale of the experiments has something to do with it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 06:50:39 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #277 on: August 31, 2008, 07:07:08 AM »
Quote
That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.

But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

Quote
But this would invalidate the Bedford Levels experiment?  If light bends upwards, like the electromagnetic acceleration theory says, that would mean that Rowbotham wouldn't have been able to make the observations that he documented because the light would have bent up away from the lens of his telescope.

I'm sure the scale of the experiments has something to do with it.

Aside from your gut feeling, what makes you sure?

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #278 on: August 31, 2008, 08:09:00 AM »
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But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

Photons... plus the stars... plus all satellites plus all planes... plus all ships... plus plus plus.

I see no reason, too.


Btw. another experiment:

Book a flight on a commercial plane. Then fly around the globe with it. Have a small gyro with you (even an advanced Wii Mote may suffice) and record all the changes in direction the plane made. Then apply those to a plain map and then to a globe. And then look on which one you would be at the place you then are after marking the way on it. You may even take a GPS with you to track the planes speed and then apply that one to the map, too.

Maybe a bit expensive, but would give you an undeniable prood of the earths roundness. And nobody can manipulate your own gyro.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #279 on: August 31, 2008, 08:13:28 AM »
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Book a flight on a commercial plane. Then fly around the globe with it. Have a small gyro with you (even an advanced Wii Mote may suffice) and record all the changes in direction the plane made. Then apply those to a plain map and then to a globe. And then look on which one you would be at the place you then are after marking the way on it. You may even take a GPS with you to track the planes speed and then apply that one to the map, too.

GPS are part of the conspiracy !!!!! lol

..and ask them the reason why we fly over the pacific to get to Australia from NY, even though it seems like that according to FE map a route over africa and asia is WAY shorter and safer.
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

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divito the truthist

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #280 on: August 31, 2008, 08:18:38 AM »
GPS are part of the conspiracy !!!!! lol

No, it's not.

..and ask them the reason why we fly over the pacific to get to Australia from NY, even though it seems like that according to FE map a route over africa and asia is WAY shorter and safer.

This is easily answered with the FAQ and some common sense.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #281 on: August 31, 2008, 08:20:53 AM »
Quote
That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.
But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what I call Belief.
Ooompa ooompa

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #282 on: August 31, 2008, 08:21:54 AM »
Oh really common sense you say?
Have you tried looking at your map?
The pacific Route is so long that makes it a senseless idea to fly by the pacific
1. Because it is not fuel efficient
2. Less safe (since across the african continent, and asia you would have more airport to stop by in case of emergency
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #283 on: August 31, 2008, 08:24:25 AM »
Oh yeah and in case of emergency landing or crush, they would find themselves in the middle of africa, how would they explain that? I am sorry but that conspiracy theory just doesn't make sense.
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #284 on: August 31, 2008, 09:18:14 AM »
Quote
Oh yeah and in case of emergency landing or crush, they would find themselves in the middle of africa, how would they explain that? I am sorry but that conspiracy theory just doesn't make sense.

Then the MiB come and get rid of them all and fake a crash in the ocean.

Or once the evil conspirators see on their radar screens that a plane tries to land on africa while its passangers should think they are elsewhere they just shoot it down and fake a crahs landing.


See? It all makes that much sense...

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #285 on: August 31, 2008, 09:20:20 AM »
Quote
Then the MiB come and get rid of them all and fake a crash in the ocean.

Or once the evil conspirators see on their radar screens that a plane tries to land on africa while its passangers should think they are elsewhere they just shoot it down and fake a crahs landing.


See? It all makes that much sense..

You are being funny, right?
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

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Marcus Aurelius

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  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #286 on: August 31, 2008, 10:01:30 AM »
Quote
That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.

But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

But I didn't "assume" anything in my post, I never said "assume the earth is curved".  I said that with your experiment the question of whether the earth was curved or flat was an unknown.  The fact that the laser point appears to be higher on the opposite pole could be explained by either light bending upwards, or earth being curved.  I suggested doing an experiment that takes that unknown out of the picture, by using a known man made flat and level surface.  The football field was just an example (not sure if its exactly flat).  It could be any man made flat surface, as long as it was tested before hand to be exactly flat.  You could prove whether or not the light bends up when projected parallel to a flat (and level) surface.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 10:20:13 AM by ragnarr »

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sokarul

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #287 on: August 31, 2008, 10:13:03 AM »
GPS are part of the conspiracy !!!!! lol

No, it's not.


You sure do like to change the FET. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #288 on: August 31, 2008, 10:19:11 AM »
..and ask them the reason why we fly over the pacific to get to Australia from NY, even though it seems like that according to FE map a route over africa and asia is WAY shorter and safer.

This is easily answered with the FAQ and some common sense.
[/quote]

Quote
Q: "How come the travel time by air from South America to New Zealand, via the polar route, is SHORTER than the travel time going North first and then South again?"

A: (Presumed answer: The airline pilots are misled by their GPS, or are deliberately conspiring to make it appear that the flights take different times)

Q: "How can a compass work on a Flat Earth?"

I saw that, and I saw the map also.  You could explain it by misled GPS, but how does that explain intercontinental submarine cables?  There are fiber cables (and power, and telephone) run across the ocean floors between the continents, I would imagine this is something that would have to have been precisely measured in order to accomplish.  According to that map, the cables between North America and Europe would have to be the same length as the cable between Australia and New Zea land.  You cannot explain that with faulty GPS.

Here is a map of the submarine cable system, unfortunately there is no scale, but the cables are labeled and you could find out their length if you research further.

http://www1.alcatel-lucent.com/submarine/refs/World_Map_2007_LR.pdf

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #289 on: August 31, 2008, 10:47:42 AM »
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I saw that, and I saw the map also.  You could explain it by misled GPS, but how does that explain intercontinental submarine cables?  There are fiber cables (and power, and telephone) run across the ocean floors between the continents, I would imagine this is something that would have to have been precisely measured in order to accomplish.  According to that map, the cables between North America and Europe would have to be the same length as the cable between Australia and New Zea land.  You cannot explain that with faulty GPS.

Here is a map of the submarine cable system, unfortunately there is no scale, but the cables are labeled and you could find out their length if you research further.

Exactly! But then again, the conspiracy excuse could be use...
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #290 on: August 31, 2008, 11:18:02 AM »
Fiber cables only have a maximum range of 10000 miles.  The pacific ones would have to be longer than that.  Just to the untrained eye.  I am a network engineer myself, but I specialize in cisco LAN/WAN and IP routing.  A friend of mine works at a switching center for ISP's and phone companies.  Hes a bit more experienced with Sonet and inter continental cables.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #291 on: August 31, 2008, 11:24:37 AM »
Well, im not sure im gettin this right. but on the map you posted, it seems like that there is a meeting point of these cables in the middle of the pacific ocean..couldn't that justify the need for longer cables?
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

*

Marcus Aurelius

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  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #292 on: August 31, 2008, 11:49:52 AM »
Branching units are just places where one of the cables from the bundle branches off.  A branching unit is not like a switching device that repeats the signal.  That still doesn't explain the fact that we would have to have exact measurements of the distances between these continents in order to do this.

A repeating device would exist in Hawaii, and New Zealand for connectivity between U.S. and Australia.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #293 on: August 31, 2008, 11:54:15 AM »
Hey..since you are an engineering you could answer my question...

Couldn't one use sound waves (im not sure if that is what they use..but i rememebr it being some kind of waves), like they do to find the shape of the oceans' bottom, to end the argument of flat vs round earth?
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

*

Marcus Aurelius

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  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #294 on: August 31, 2008, 12:02:33 PM »
Perhaps, but I'm not that kind of engineer.  I design networks.  I do believe they use Sonar to map the bottom of the ocean, but it has a range.  Just like Satellite photos don't prove the earth is round because its thousands of pictures put together.  Same thing goes with mapping the ocean floor with Sonar.

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #295 on: August 31, 2008, 12:05:08 PM »
Ugh yeah i guess you are right.
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

*

Marcus Aurelius

  • 4546
  • My Alts: Tom Bishop, Gayer, theonlydann
Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #296 on: August 31, 2008, 12:07:50 PM »
Now, back to the subject at hand, if you want to discuss intercontinental cables, we can make another thread and I will discuss what I know about them.  Again it's my friend that works with Sonet, Im more on the LAN end, but I have some understanding of it.

Back to the subject:

Quote
That experiment cannot prove that it is the light bending up, because you would get the same results if the surface of the earth was curved.

But it's not curved. I don't see any reason to assume that the entire earth is curving when clearly it's only a few photons which are doing the curving.

But I didn't "assume" anything in my post, I never said "assume the earth is curved".  I said that with your experiment the question of whether the earth was curved or flat was an unknown.  The fact that the laser point appears to be higher on the opposite pole could be explained by either light bending upwards, or earth being curved.  I suggested doing an experiment that takes that unknown out of the picture, by using a known man made flat and level surface.  The football field was just an example (not sure if its exactly flat).  It could be any man made flat surface, as long as it was tested before hand to be exactly flat.  You could prove whether or not the light bends up when projected parallel to a flat (and level) surface.



Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #297 on: August 31, 2008, 12:16:07 PM »
nah I am quite tired of trying to make a point today..

..but I do think the experiment you are proposing is quite logical, and could prove one side or the other wrong.
FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no

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divito the truthist

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Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #298 on: August 31, 2008, 03:55:35 PM »
Oh really common sense you say?
Have you tried looking at your map?
The pacific Route is so long that makes it a senseless idea to fly by the pacific
1. Because it is not fuel efficient
2. Less safe (since across the african continent, and asia you would have more airport to stop by in case of emergency

That's fantastic and all, but if airlines don't know the shape of the Earth, they can't have better fuel efficiency and make it "more safe."
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

Re: Sinking Ship experiment Results
« Reply #299 on: August 31, 2008, 03:59:54 PM »
Quote
That's fantastic and all, but if airlines don't know the shape of the Earth, they can't have better fuel efficiency and make it "more safe."

So Airlines fly blindly, get to destination, and in case of emergency landing, they land in the middle of nowhere, assuming its somewhere near the pacific?

And I brought that point up since I was told that flying over the Pacific even in the FE scenario is more fuel efficient than it would be to fly over Africa to Australia.

FET = Fake Earth Theory
RET = Real Earth Theory

And i wonder..Do penguins ever fall in space? Because that Ice Wall bust be pretty High!

Now it all makes sense!!! That's why we could never prove Santa!! He must be hiding at the Ice Wall!!

:D no